Right-to-Work=Master and Servant


  1. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    You are referring to the Koch bros letter that was totally misrepresented for political reasons and never threatened to fire anyone?
  2. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    The facts are, political views of workers can be a cause to dismiss, being a government or union employee gives some protection.

    Please cite a reference to Koch letter.
  3. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    My bad. I assumed you were referencing a letter that has been circulated by numerous liberal sources claiming the Koch brothers threatened to fire anyone who voted for a Democrat. Anyone who actually reads the letter can see that is not what it says, but it hasn't stopped liberals from perpetrating the lie. I assumed that was what you were referencing. I was wrong. Apologies.
  4. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    Prior to Citizens United S.C. decision direct communications to employees about voting was prohibited. It's not only the Koch Industries that are "urging" how employees vote. Employees are also having social media monitored.

    The bottom line is one's political views may be used to terminate employment. In light of monopolistic and oligopolistic industries, so much for "free citizens".

    It appears that when any media questions the wealthy elite, you term it liberal, is that your term for investigating journalism ?

    Since you brought up Koch Industries, here's an article, doesn't appear that employees were "legally" threatened in mass, but that speaks more concerning the law.

    Koch Sends Pro-Romney Mailing to 45,000 Employees While Stifling Workplace Political Speech (Update) - In These Times

    "In August, Portland-based Georgia Pacific worker Travis McKinney, a member of the Inlandboatmen
  5. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    The employees weren't threatened in any sense of the word legally or not. Did you read the letter at all? Or did you just see the headline and draw a conclusion?

    You are correct that one can be terminated for their political views, but one can be terminated for their eye color or hair color or just because they don't like the color of your shoes that day.
  6. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    Yes, serfs can be terminated on how the masters feel that day on eye, hair, shoes color. The masters know what matters is the serfs thinking, thus their control on what matters.
  7. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Bitter much?
  8. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

  9. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    It works both ways though. We have a guy in our company who has a high amount of knowledge on a very specialized proprietary product. There is literally no one in the world who knows more than he does about this particular aspect of our product. Because of right to work he could walk away from the job tomorrow and go work for our competitor. Because of this the company basically backs a Brinks truck up to his door every payday. If you make yourself valuable enough to your employer they will keep you around.
  10. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

    ya but why should someone bother gaining a skill when they can simply gain a union and make more money......... without the threat of having to actually earn it
    kct1975 likes this.
  11. saptech

    saptech Well-Known Member

    Believe me, he can be let go by the company. They will find someone just as knowledgeable as him! And hire the other person for less money!
  12. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    B.S. again, your personal observation has no basis in reality. Right-to-work is not relevant. Proprietary product is the key to your fallacy.

    What is the criteria to be valuable to said employer ? Who judges this ?
  13. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Pretty much everyone in the company feels that if they do anything like that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Yes they could let him go (and yes he could go somewhere else on his own) but the company would be hard pressed to find someone as knowledgeable as him about something that he designed. Yeah, they could pay someone else less money, but that person won't have the same experience and knowledge level. People need to get off the poor me persecution complex IMO.
    kct1975 and bberryhill0 like this.
  14. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    Most of the skills we have are developed at work, even those with highly specialized educations. Anyone can be and will be replaced and business's plan for this event or possibility.

    People should not be persecuted for their political, religious, etc beliefs via government, corporations, etc. There is a long history of such persecutions, so to avoid a "poor me" persecution complex, stop the persecution and complaining about those that are stopping the persecution.
  15. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    I hate to break this to you, but people have been persecuted for their beliefs ever since there have been people who had beliefs. I'm just saying. Nothing new there.
  16. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    This may come as a surprise to you, societies that prosper and survive have placed sanctions on those doing the persecution, nothing new, just a continuous struggle against those that practice divide and conquer tactics.
  17. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Workers of the world unite!!
  18. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    Folks that want their grandchildren to survive unite.
  19. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    Unions raise wages and improve working conditions for all, not just the union workers. Now that unions have declined, so has the middle class. Coincidence? I think not.
  20. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Unions are severely flawed in their own rights. They can (and do) control who does and doesn't get promoted. More than once I've seen someone who should've been fired kept around because the union wouldn't let the company fire them. Unions often get in the way of progress.
    bberryhill0 and kct1975 like this.
  21. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    Unions are an organization of humans, therefore will be flawed. Still better than the alternative.
  22. genuser

    genuser Well-Known Member

    Unions breed mediocrity. There's no motivation for John to work harder than Joe because they will always make the same wage for the same position. No thanks, I'm not willing to work for average pay so those around me can sit on their tails and make the same as me.
    bberryhill0 and kct1975 like this.
  23. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Generally speaking it's best for the employers if they don't treat employees like crap. Sometimes unions ensure that happens. Sometimes they ensure it doesn't happen.
  24. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Well-Known Member

    Let's provide a little empirical data, instead of anecdotal b.s.

    How unions help all workers | Economic Policy Institute

    This paper has presented evidence on some of the advantages that unionized workers enjoy as the result of union organization and collective bargaining: higher wages; more and better benefits; more effective utilization of social insurance programs; and more effective enforcement of legislated labor protections such as safety, health, and overtime regulations. Unions also set pay standards and practices that raise the wages of nonunionized workers in occupations and industries where there is a strong union presence. Collective bargaining fuels innovations in wages, benefits, and work practices that affect both unionized and nonunionized workers.

    However, this review does not paint a full picture of the role of unions in workers lives, as unions enable due process in the workplace and facilitate a strong worker voice in the broader community and in politics. Many observers have stated, correctly, that a strong labor movement is essential to a thriving democracy.
  25. bberryhill0

    bberryhill0 Well-Known Member

    I don't count on a union to "protect" my right to a job with a company. I made my own job. If you can find a job that pays you for showing up whether you work or not more power to you. I won't buy from that company.
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