All Things GPS

[Stringyquark]

Thank you for making this thread. I believe more attention needs to be brought to this issue. Checking both samsung and sprints websites I found very little to nothing about this. Alot of the time my gps works acceptablely, but not great. My friends motorola clic gets much better reception signal, locks faster and glitches less. The 30m or 98ft cheat is simply appalling. I'm still not sure if it will work as a stand alone gps, which I believe is the most basic function of any gps. If this were a free phone I would be fine, but I paid alot of money for this phone. I only hope that samsung and sprint come clean and say this is as good as it's going to get or let us know that there taking this issue seriously. With 2 updates and no mention of a real fix I'm not sure if I can keep this wonderful phone. If service is at this level well the phone is new what is it going to be like in three months when new phones start to roll out?

 

[Stringyquark]

Also I'm just wondering does EVERY epic have the hard coded 30m issue?

 

[buggerritt]

HNot sure if this has already been discussed but, while using GPS,if voice call begins, GPS stops working. After the call has hung up, GPS is available, again.

 

[modru2004]

After reading 4 large pages of posts, I'm a little hesitant to post this, but here goes.

I've got the opposite problem with my wife's new Epic. In her case, if the GPS is OFF, the location of the phone is incorrect by 24 miles when the phone is at home. When she's out and about, no tracking is done at all. Turn on the GPS (with wireless location on or off), the location is fine.

Anyone seen this behavior?

i........don't know how to respond. im not sure if i should take this seriously, if it was a joke or what.

ill go for the former. in the off chance you don't know, the gps is the device that links up with the satellites to locate you. if its off, obviously its not going to locate you. therefore it has to be on for location based services to work correctly.

summary: working as intended.

after some thought, i realized you could be referring the the cell tower triangulation not working right. is that what you meant? if so, mine has not even been attempting to use the cell towers reguardless of settings. if im indoors and can't lock satellites, even with wireless location enabled, it will never do it. it hangs on the gps.

 

[boomerbubba]

Also I'm just wondering does EVERY epic have the hard coded 30m issue?

I've never heard of one that doesn't. And I have probably read every GPS thread on the most popular forums.

Install GPS Test. Run it until you get a satellite lock (if you can). You will see the imputed accuracy at 30.0 meters (or 98.4 feet if you have changed the setting for units display).

 

[lee_herman]

Modru2004

Yes, you figured it out. I am referring to cell tower triangulation. With my HTC Hero I use it very effectively, but in my case my wife's Epic it's buggy and only the GPS-enabled locating works.

In the interim I've found a few forums where people have experienced this effect with their Epics. One person is consistently located in Latvia, instead of their actual east coast location. In that context I suppose I should feel lucky that I'm only off by 24 miles.

 

[Shane112358]

So whats the news on this? Any impending fix? I need to decide today whether I'm keeping this phone or not. The reboot doesn't help at all. GPS + wireless works OK but GPS by itself is often up to 1/4 mile off.

 

[Aero1]

after some thought, i realized you could be referring the the cell tower triangulation not working right. is that what you meant? if so, mine has not even been attempting to use the cell towers reguardless of settings. if im indoors and can't lock satellites, even with wireless location enabled, it will never do it. it hangs on the gps.

^makes no sense. wireless networks setting has no affect on satellites, none. and why would you have on if you are attempting a wireless networks location?

 

[Flaspeneer]

To MN3, Whoever You Are:

Just got notice that you'd replied to an Engadget post of mine asking Richard Lawler to give credit, after quoting an exact fix in the exact words of this forum, to Aero1 for his diagnostic efforts, powers of detection, and willingness to impart useful information to others on this site. I received notice of your post, followed it and saw immediately that it had been deleted. I urge you to repost in slightly more diplomatic language, only because Aero1 deserves full journalistic credit for the Epic GPS fix which he and no one else authored.

I understand that Lawler is limited as to what he can say on Engadget. I understand that he might have to parrot Samsung's official response for legal and other reasons. But as an occasional journalist for The New York Press, American Book Review and other publications, I cannot fathom how he as a journalist can possibly justify quoting a member of this forum verbatim without crediting the author. Where is the equanimity that true journalism is supposed to bring to public debate? Samsung and Sprint say things that are utterly useless to users and receive credit every time. Aero1 managed to make a serious improvement in the experience of countless Sprint users and no credit at all is given. Endgadget needs to give Aero1 full acknowledgment. It's a matter of public fairness.

Here's the discussion of the article in which the uncredited Aero1 quote appears:

Epic 4G: problems so far -- and a few solutions -- Engadget

Here's the page with the comment to which NM3 was replying:

Epic 4G: problems so far -- and a few solutions -- Engadget

(The user's name is Belthusiquand.)

Here's unattributed quote from Aero1 used by Richard Lawler:

Enter "*#1472365#" in the dialer (no quotes)
Select Setup>Position Mode>Starting Mode
Change the option from "Hot Start" to "Cold Start"

 

[TheAlien]

Needless to say, I haven't read all of the 198 gabillion posts here, but here's my input. I used the GPS fix of cold start. I have wireless turned off. Here's my results. I went to my dads. Just for the fun of it, I did a google maps to see if it would find where I was (2 states away from my hometown). Not only did it find me, but it actually labeled me sitting on the patio (using the satellite view showing the visual of my location). How much closer do you folks really want this thing to get?

 

[kngyn19]

The problem seems to be caused by caching GPS data, so posters from AndroidForums and elsewhere have come up with a workaround to force it to update that information on each request as indicated below.

He did give credit.

 

[Flaspeneer]

He did give credit.

He does give partial credit now -- present tense. Web publications are edited retroactively to reflect new edits and corrections.

I'm glad he added the link, but his summary of the GPS fix credits web forum users in general and not the individual who did the research, found the solution and published it. I take issue with that omission.

 

[tomw3141]

Needless to say, I haven't read all of the 198 gabillion posts here, but here's my input. I used the GPS fix of cold start. I have wireless turned off. Here's my results. I went to my dads. Just for the fun of it, I did a google maps to see if it would find where I was (2 states away from my hometown). Not only did it find me, but it actually labeled me sitting on the patio (using the satellite view showing the visual of my location). How much closer do you folks really want this thing to get?

Even after this parameter change, most folks have trouble 2 to 5 days later. The almanac gets stale. A reset "fixes" it again. If yours and others work fine for a month without a reset, that would be interesting news.

 

[Aero1]

Even after this parameter change, most folks have trouble 2 to 5 days later. The almanac gets stale. A reset "fixes" it again. If yours and others work fine for a month without a reset, that would be interesting news.

th poster you are referring to says he has applied the cold start workaround. If that is the case, he like most people are now reporting that their almanace and ephemeris are properly refreshing.

I am looking at some other methods, but am also waiting to see what sprint hears back from Samsung. Sprint does see the problem but their is no word samsung acknowledges it.

 

[Aero1]

He does give partial credit now -- present tense. Web publications are edited retroactively to reflect new edits and corrections.

I'm glad he added the link, but his summary of the GPS fix credits web forum users in general and not the individual who did the research, found the solution and published it. I take issue with that omission.

My guess is Engadget is in a defensive mode since they have lately become simply a public relations outlet for their advertisers to the great disservice of their readers.

Either that or they are allowing themselves to get spun like rubes.

It is pity, it was once a decent site.

 

[BigD562]

Anyone tried GPS Booster - Android app on AppBrain ?

 

[twenham]

I have read many of the forums saying the GPS is terrible on the EPIC. Here is what I have found. Comparing the Epic to my marine and computer navigations systems. It has always been within 30 foot accuracy. Rarely is it exactly dead on, but sometimes it appears to be exact. Most of the time it is around 6-12 foot accuracy. It does wander less than my marine systems with WAAS. This might be the averaging kicking in. The GPS accuracy always states 98 feet. Obviously this number has been coded into the phone to limit liability probably. I only use the GPS on setting, the use wireless networks setting is always turned off. So needless to say I'm impressed with the accuracy of the small GPS inside the phone. Granted it does seem to take a while to lock on, but then it takes a while for my marine and computer GPS's to get a WAAS lock.

 

[Aero1]

I have read many of the forums saying the GPS is terrible on the EPIC.

I don't know where you get that impression. The gps has three or four serious bugs, but accuracy problems are really a side affect that occurs form locking 4 sats when ten or 11 should be locked due to bad ephemeris.

The main problem is getting stuck not locking at all in certain circumstances

The GPS accuracy always states 98 feet. Obviously this number has been coded into the phone to limit liability probably.

?? Limit liability?? No it is most likely there to defeat programs parameters of certain application that require >30 meters location resolution (fine resolution). the other possibility is it is just sloppy coding reflecting sloppy coding in other areas of the GPS on EPIC.

Lasly my Treo Pro beats the daylights out of top of the line marine nav systers simply due to agps

 

[mojomojo]

After update my GPS is accurate.
I just checked it.
Locked on in 3-4 seconds .
Before the update it was about 75 feet off,now its dead on.

 

[Aero1]

After update my GPS is accurate.

LOL,Sprint update makes no changes whatsoever to GPS in Epic.
You are simulating the cold start by having a recent update of any kind since that flushes data.

 

[Seddy]

I really haven't had a problem with my GPS. It works great. I used Google Nav once when coming home from Buffalo Wild Wings, just to see if it works, and it did. I also used the 'Map' portion of Google Nav when coming home from my co-workers house, and the little blue arrow stayed with me the whole way to the house. 'Use Wireless Networks' has been unchecked since I got the phone and i've never bothered to turn it on.

I downloaded the GPS Test and this is what I came up with... dont know if its good or bad, but I have no complaints.

 

[Aero1]

those are of course well below average SNR numbers, as is typical with Epic poor GPS reception. but they aren't meaningful without knowing conditions other than to say numbers like that under decent conditions are so marginal that under any poor conditions you would have trouble. they look like the SNR I get with EVO inside my house.

Fortunately Sprint Advanced Device (ADP) has GPS as their number one problem remaining now, so I am hopeful they will begin to address the four bugs, several of which are major.

Your VERY poor SNR results though maybe just a permanent hardware flaw.

Just remember for best aGPS function keep "use wireless networks" in the location menu OFF.

 

[RickJ]

Just to illustrate the a/m post this was shot just now with an evo indoors

 

[RickJ]

Just for reference, this is a shot just now outdoors, not too much improvement, however is in an area heavily treed. Too lazy to walk down the street for a better clearing, but under open sky will generally get at least a couple sats in the low 40 range

 

[Aero1]

Just for reference, this is a shot just now outdoors, not too much improvement, however is in an area heavily treed. Too lazy to walk down the street for a better clearing, but under open sky will generally get at least a couple sats in the low 40 range

rick thanks for showing the Evo's numbers so people can see the difference.

Some response was needed to Seddy from sprint and the causal anecdote, given he who has previously erroniously said that one needed to enable wireless networks (which we have already have shown has no affect at all on aGPS).

these are serious threads about diagnosing and getting serious issues fixed.