Anyone boycotting the TSA scanners tomorrow?

[Dark Jedi]

No, they're not. Those who study history and specifically their civil rights understand that this is a BLATANT violation of our inalienable rights. Congress shall NOT create any laws infringing on these rights. No government entity has ANY right to treat all citizens as criminals and search them w/o probably cause. Doesn't matter if it's in the name of national security or whatever they claim it's for.

Funny how the Federal government was created to protect our country's borders and yet they can't be bothered with their #1 responsibility yet things like this are priority #1 regardless of the outcry against it from those who aren't inclined to believe everything that is spoon fed to them.

I digress.

If you feel unsafe flying w/o overbearing security measures affecting all travelers then maybe it's YOU who shouldn't fly.. not those who value their constitutional rights. I shouldn't be subject to an illegal search because it makes you 'feel' safer. How are your feelings paramount to mine when mine are protected by the most important document in this nation's history?

an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules. They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice. I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.

Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.

Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.

 

[mike114]

an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules.

Wrong...the TSA sets the rules when it comes to security.

They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice.

If I exercise my choice to fly (right to travel protected by the Constitution), then I must submit and concede my 4th Amendment rights. By what authority does anyone have to suspend the 4th Amendment???

I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.

While you are right that you probably won't get shot, they will detain you and use physical force to make you comply if you decide against the search once you get through the initial checkpoint.

Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.

Again, it's not the airport making these decisions, it's a government agency. And would you submit to the type of pat down everytime you walked into a casino, food store, Wal-Mart, etc that's conducted by the TSA?

Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.

Again I ask, under what authority does anyone have to suspend and/or completely ignore the 4th Amendment. And about your statement about being gung ho about blurting what are rights are, if we don't defend our own freedoms, who will?? The government???? LMAO

 

[Crude]

No, they're not. Those who study history and specifically their civil rights understand that this is a BLATANT violation of our inalienable rights. Congress shall NOT create any laws infringing on these rights. No government entity has ANY right to treat all citizens as criminals and search them w/o probably cause. Doesn't matter if it's in the name of national security or whatever they claim it's for.

Funny how the Federal government was created to protect our country's borders and yet they can't be bothered with their #1 responsibility yet things like this are priority #1 regardless of the outcry against it from those who aren't inclined to believe everything that is spoon fed to them.

I digress.

If you feel unsafe flying w/o overbearing security measures affecting all travelers then maybe it's YOU who shouldn't fly.. not those who value their constitutional rights. I shouldn't be subject to an illegal search because it makes you 'feel' safer. How are your feelings paramount to mine when mine are protected by the most important document in this nation's history?

I think you're refering to ben franklin " those who surrender liberty for safety deserve neither." I have to agree with that. In my mind the difference lies within the ownership of the airplanes. You're not being searched for being in the airport but rather for boarding a plane.

Does the government have the right to mandate seat belts?

 

[Dark Jedi]

Profiling does work when used in conjunction with other techniques so I don't think it's racist at all

this is what you wrote in the other thread mike.

You are all for trampling of a minority civil rights and subject them to as you put it illegal search and seizure. Because the was born looking like a terrorist. Plus you said I don't consider that racist. But as soon as you have to be subjected to the same search. You call foul and say that's a violation of my 4th amendment rights. So its ok to trample over American citizens that happen to be of middle eastern decent amendment rights because they look like terrorists?

 

[mike114]

this is what you wrote in the other thread mike.

You are all for trampling of a minority civil rights and subject them to as you put it illegal search and seizure. Because the was born looking like a terrorist. Plus you said I don't consider that racist. But as soon as you have to be subjected to the same search. You call foul and say that's a violation of my 4th amendment rights. So its ok to trample over American citizens that happen to be of middle eastern decent amendment rights because they look like terrorists?

If we were to just pull aside people only because they were profiled, I would agree with you. But to ignore the fact that a vast majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims, it is irresponsible not to use it as a tool. No where did I say they should be sent through a porno scanner or be felt up by a TSA agent.

And not just profile based on race or religion. How about someone with only a one way ticket? Or someone with minimal luggage yet they will be on a 10 day trip? There are many ways to profile someone. Using some logical thinking and good attention to details is not a violation of anyone's 4th Amendment rights.

Nice try in attempting to insinuate that profiling might not affect me. FYI...I'm of Portuguese descent, have black hair, a black goatee and have a darker skin complexion than most whites. Anyone looking at me can mistake me being from a ME country. Your attempt to play the hypocrisy card didn't work.

 

[mike17]

well the good thing was last Wednesday when i was at the airport there was no one refusing the full body scanners

 

[byteware]

Wait, in accordance with this logic my employer is violating my right to free speech?

This argument is absolutely ridiculous.

Here's are the reasons why:

1) Your employer isn't the government.

2) Your employer doesn't stop you from saying Anything you choose to. They simply are not required to employ you if you say something that they don't like.

Private property changes your rights.

How absolutely and utterly ridiculous. That's like saying that once you walk into a police station, they can search you anyway, and anywhere they want. It's not true, and it's dangerous thinking.

If the condition to be on my property is a strip search, your getting searched or removed.

Actually, if you did that, you would likely be charged with sexual assault, and go to jail.

I'm amazed at how little people understang the constitution.

I'm amazed at just how ironic this statement really is.

 

[byteware]

I agree, I'm just making the point that in theory they are within their right to make us strip if they wanted to.

No they are not. There is no exemption in the constitution for private property.

What I'm getting at is that the fed is within their right. There are other ways to protect the planes but this seems to be their choice. And until the general populous says nuts to it we are stuck with it.

Bullcrap. The fed is not within their right. We are protected from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. There is nothing in there that says, unless it's in an airport, or private property.



For example, if your employer wants to, they can call the police on you. They can ask the police to strip search you. However, without probable cause, the police cannot do it. I don't care if you are on your employer's property, your home, your employer's house, Mars, or the police station. It's a violation of your rights anywhere, and so is this search by the TSA.

 

[byteware]

an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules. They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice. I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.

Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.

Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.

I am about tired of this argument, so I've got a little story to tell about a woman who had a choice whether or not to partake in a service.

We all know a woman named Rosa Parks had the choice whether or not to partake in the service of riding on the Bus.

The fact that it was HER choice didn't mean that her rights weren't violated. It didn't mean that she left her rights at the door when she road the bus.

Or did she? You seem to think that she did. As you seem to think that we ALL do.

Anything the government does is fine... as long as we have a choice to partake in the service... right?

 

[byteware]

I think you're refering to ben franklin " those who surrender liberty for safety deserve neither." I have to agree with that. In my mind the difference lies within the ownership of the airplanes. You're not being searched for being in the airport but rather for boarding a plane.

Does the government have the right to mandate seat belts?

You are honestly comparing mandating seat belts with touching your genitals without cause?

And for the record, I don't believe that they have the right to mandate seat belts.

 

[byteware]

well the good thing was last Wednesday when i was at the airport there was no one refusing the full body scanners

That's NOT a good thing. A nation full of cowards too timid to defend their rights... is most decidedly NOT a good thing.

 

[sixtythree]

i dont see ANY problem with these scanners and everyone is making a huge deal over nothing. Just walk through the damn scanners and lets get on with the day!! No one wants to save a picture of the outline of your weeny and post it online. Its not the large. walk thru it so we can move on with our lives.

one person makes a big deal over things and everyone else follows like little monkeys.
kthxbye

I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.
I am sure it is stessful to them as it is to you. Unless you are a husband and they are doing it to your wife.

 

[Crude]

hey, the one thing I'm sure of is that private property changes your rights. You have no right to be on said property. You can be asked to leave if the owner decides he doesn't like your hair piece.

 

[byteware]

I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.

This statement is ironic.

It is ok, because you don't have a right to fly. You choose to fly.

You can also choose to do the following things that you don't have a right to do: drive and take a train (which by your justification above, the TSA would be well within their "rights" to force these searches when you drive, or take a train... because you don't have a right to do those things, you choose to do those things).

The only thing, by your reasoning, that they wouldn't be able to search you, would be when you walk...

But for further clarification. You don't have to ride the bus. You don't have a right to ride the bus. If you don't want to sit in the back, then don't ride the bus.

 

[byteware]

hey, the one thing I'm sure of is that private property changes your rights.

No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.

You have no right to be on said property.

You don't have that right whether you are on that property or not. That doesn't change because you enter private property. Nothing about your rights changes because you are on private property. You don't have the right to enter private property without the permission of the owner, and you stay at the indulgence of the owner.

You don't HAVE the right to enter my house, until you do...

Your rights do not change because you are on private property. Period.

Otherwise, entering someone else's house would give the police full authority to give you a strip/cavity search anytime they wanted.

 

[mike114]

I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.
I am sure it is stessful to them as it is to you. Unless you are a husband and they are doing it to your wife.

I'm done. 4 pages of debating this and then this post shows up like nothing has been discussed for over a week. Could you at least provide some proof where the federal government can suspend your 4th Amendment rights just because you happen to choose to fly. This argument is weak and doesn't change anything that is clearly defined in the Constitution.

Hey sixtythree, repeat after me, "Baaaaaaaa". If you're wondering, that's the sound of sheep.

 

[OstrichSaK]

I'm done. 4 pages of debating this and then this post shows up like nothing has been discussed for over a week. Could you at least provide some proof where the federal government can suspend your 4th Amendment rights just because you happen to choose to fly. This argument is weak and doesn't change anything that is clearly defined in the Constitution.

Hey sixtythree, repeat after me, "Baaaaaaaa". If you're wondering, that's the sound of sheep.

/thread

 

[A.Nonymous]

No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.

Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.

 

[jamor]

Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.

Ahh..That isn't quite accurate.

You can still be arrested/charged/fined for something like that. There are numerous amounts of loop holes they could use on you. The easiest (and their favorite weapon of choice) is disorderly conduct. Public nuisance, public obscenity, and disturbing the peace are also in their arsenal.

 

[Crude]

No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.



You don't have that right whether you are on that property or not. That doesn't change because you enter private property. Nothing about your rights changes because you are on private property. You don't have the right to enter private property without the permission of the owner, and you stay at the indulgence of the owner.

You don't HAVE the right to enter my house, until you do...

Your rights do not change because you are on private property. Period.

Otherwise, entering someone else's house would give the police full authority to give you a strip/cavity search anytime they wanted.

umm, you're saying what I just said...how am I supposed to argue with that?

 

[OstrichSaK]

Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.

If someone comes to your house and calls your mother a skank you can proceed to throw them out. If they don't leave they are now trespassing and can be charged with this if you wish to press charges. You still can't take away their right to bear arms or privacy or any other civil right.... so how does it affect this topic again? It amazes me how people who have no idea what they're talking about are so easily confused by their own bovine excrement.

 

[Crude]

If someone comes to your house and calls your mother a skank you can proceed to throw them out.

condition

If they don't leave they are now trespassing and can be charged with this if you wish to press charges.

consequence

If you fly the condition is you submit to a search. The consequence for not meeting the condition is not flying.

You still can't take away their right to bear arms or privacy or any other civil right.... so how does it affect this topic again?

Do you expect to fly with a firearm? It is your 2nd amendment right?

It amazes me how people who have no idea what they're talking about are so easily confused by their own bovine excrement.

This is disappointing and only takes away from your credibility.

 

[mike114]

For those condoning what the TSA is doing in the name of safety, let me ask this.

1 - Is the government allowed to suspend your 4th Amendment rights at anytime? If so, under what authority?

2 - What other law enforcement agent would be able to walk up to you, touch you the way the TSA does without a warrant or probable cause just because you decided to do anything that day in the public square?

 

[IOWA]

Pretty sad people who would give up their rights for a marginal amount of safety, because the darned scanners don't even detect bombs.

Also sad, most people here who think this is legal obviously would fail High School. All of you disagreeing, are you high school drop outs or did you just cheat on your constitution test?

 

[mike114]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X4G-0g9PRrE

"POLICE STATE - TSA, Homeland Security & Tampa Police Set Up Nazi Checkpoints At Bus Stations"

Looks like those CHOOSING to take the bus are out of luck as well. But I'm sure this is swell for you sheeple. Next up, trains. It will be a national transportation groping session.