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Palm New OS better then Android? A true Ipod Challenger?

here's something else to notice. Shares of Palm jumped 34% even though the the dow was down. Clearly some investors think it's a winner too. Google by the way was up only .99%

Is Android in danger? I don't see any android phones on the way in the states. The interface though, nice is not slick, and the menus lack the sheen or gloss you see in OS's like Leapord or say Vista or even on the ipod, that i think wow people. It's a bit utilitarian.

What do you think? is this a true competitor to the ipod? Is it going to leapfrog Android in the mobile OS wars?

Does google need to take immediate steps to either update the UI or release a way to skin the UI, or both?
Ha ... funny. A $6 stock jumped 34%, wow!

Googles market cap is more than 125 times palm. That's 700 million against 99 billion. Is Android in trouble ... well Google has 20 some billion in cash alone that says they can do whatever it takes to move to the top with the stroke of a pen. But just like 1/2 the Internet they now control, they won't just take it via greed ... they know how to circle and then attack and this is why I never owned a single combination smart phone until I bought a G1. Google knows what they are doing and Palm is too little too late in what is now a VERY competitive smart phone market. They should have at least let this puppy fly before Blackberry released the storm. I think predict Blackberry to become the Palm OS of the 90's ... went to the top and spiral down. Palm will take over Microsoft Mobile. Google and Iphone stay on top until Steve Jobs dies, then Google takes it home for the kill.

You heard it here first!
 
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Ha ... funny. A $6 stock jumped 34%, wow!

Googles market cap is more than 125 times palm. That's 700 million against 99 billion. Is Android in trouble ... well Google has 20 some billion in cash alone that says they can do whatever it takes to move to the top with the stroke of a pen. But just like 1/2 the Internet they now control, they won't just take it via greed ... they know how to circle and then attack and this is why I never owned a single combination smart phone until I bought a G1. Google knows what they are doing and Palm is too little too late in what is now a VERY competitive smart phone market. They should have at least let this puppy fly before Blackberry released the storm. I think predict Blackberry to become the Palm OS of the 90's ... went to the top and spiral down. Palm will take over Microsoft Mobile. Google and Iphone stay on top until Steve Jobs dies, then Google takes it home for the kill.

You heard it here first!

You make a lot of sense. I can see it that way. I often wondered why Microsoft didn't buy RIM. RIM does have one thing going for it, it is the Microsoft Exchange/Office/Windows of the business world. iPhones are mostly consumer devices. As the landscape shifts it will take some effort for Google to unseat RIM. Eroding what microsoft has built is not an easy task.
 
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Palm introduced the Pre today at CES and i must say, it looks slicker and sexier then Android. The icons are modern and have a gloss and the hardware is a bit sexier then the G1.

I don't care about looking slicker, sexier, or glossier. I care about usable, useful, and open source. Android and Symbian do just fine on all three fronts. Apple and Palm seem to be lacking on the third. I can't really comment on WinMo.

Is Android in danger?

No.

I don't see any android phones on the way in the states.

Look here. The last 5 phones shown (3 version of the Saphire, the Hero, and the Memphis) are all Android phones. Unfortunately, the Memphis only has a 4 row keyboard, instead of 5 rows (like the G1 and all of the other side-slide qwerty phones on that page).

The interface though, nice is not slick, and the menus lack the sheen or gloss you see in OS's like Leapord or say Vista or even on the ipod, that i think wow people. It's a bit utilitarian.

Utilitarian == good, as long as it's also usable and useful.

Slick/gloss/sheen are for fashionistas and fanboys. If it's slick/glossy/sheeny/sexy ... but lacks usefulness, then who gives a crap? And if it has slick/sexy/glossy/sheeny and usefulness, but lacks usability, again, who gives a crap?

Is it going to leapfrog Android in the mobile OS wars?

... who cares? This isn't a popularity contest.

What matters is: at what threshold of various factors will developers stray from Android, and at what threshold of various factors will Google and/or device makers lose interest in Android. Popularity is only one of those factors.

Does google need to take immediate steps to either update the UI or release a way to skin the UI, or both?

No.
 
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If it's true that apps for the pre have to be written in Javascript, that's just hilariously stupid. Javascript and HTML? Are you freakin' kidding me?

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how that's different from the pre-SDK version of the iPhone. Unless the Pre can store those javascript/html pages locally. But still, it gives you all of the application advantages of iPhone v1. That's good, but it's certainly not great.
 
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Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how that's different from the pre-SDK version of the iPhone. Unless the Pre can store those javascript/html pages locally. But still, it gives you all of the application advantages of iPhone v1. That's good, but it's certainly not great.

My understanding is the WebOS is very attractive for these reasons....

...apps like Google Maps are built in the OS's native language. So imagine many more apps as powerful as Google Maps, with DHTML, Javascript. There are many web apps already. These with a bit of Gears like work can run easily and natively on Web OS.

...devs abound who know how to build DHTML and Javascript apps. Most application engineers have had to integrate web os components into their code for desktop apps for a long time. Now they just go native.

...the web was moving in a flash,air, silverlight direction about 4 years ago, and then Google showed with a little effort how easy it would be to make quality apps in standard technology (javascript, et al.) so is it any wonder that some company decided to run their OS on that platform?

So you get many native apps with minor tweaks that will be able to launch when the Pre launches. You get many devs who are interested in mobile dev but didn't know Java (Android) or OSX (iPhone) who can now code easily for your platform.

Palm made a shrewd move.
 
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My understanding is the WebOS is very attractive for these reasons....

...apps like Google Maps are built in the OS's native language. So imagine many more apps as powerful as Google Maps, with DHTML, Javascript. There are many web apps already. These with a bit of Gears like work can run easily and natively on Web OS.

...devs abound who know how to build DHTML and Javascript apps. Most application engineers have had to integrate web os components into their code for desktop apps for a long time. Now they just go native.

...the web was moving in a flash,air, silverlight direction about 4 years ago, and then Google showed with a little effort how easy it would be to make quality apps in standard technology (javascript, et al.) so is it any wonder that some company decided to run their OS on that platform?

So you get many native apps with minor tweaks that will be able to launch when the Pre launches. You get many devs who are interested in mobile dev but didn't know Java (Android) or OSX (iPhone) who can now code easily for your platform.

Palm made a shrewd move.

So, what that says to me is:

The Pre can do what Android and the iPhone can do in their browsers (javascript/HTML/etc.), but it can't do what Android and the iPhone can do in their SDKs (ie. java and/or natively compiled programs).

I'm not convinced that the Pre will be better at running Google-like apps than Google's own OS. It might be better at wrapping them up in a bow, but actually delivering them? doubt it.

And, yet, that seems to be all the Pre is about.
 
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You make a lot of sense. I can see it that way. I often wondered why Microsoft didn't buy RIM. RIM does have one thing going for it, it is the Microsoft Exchange/Office/Windows of the business world. iPhones are mostly consumer devices. As the landscape shifts it will take some effort for Google to unseat RIM. Eroding what microsoft has built is not an easy task.
Cloud technology is going to outseat everyone, there is no way to avoid it now, it's already begun and then some. Google already has push technology in Gmail, whereas Microsoft is still working on their boxed versions of software. Google will be the first to fully embrace the business and consumer sectors. Whereas the way RIM went about it is now going to be their downfall. And most companies will never forget the amount of money Microsoft forced them to pay ... they will never forget ... ever. Google has this one, just like the dominate any market they touch.
 
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Cloud technology is going to outseat everyone, there is no way to avoid it now, it's already begun and then some. Google already has push technology in Gmail, whereas Microsoft is still working on their boxed versions of software. Google will be the first to fully embrace the business and consumer sectors. Whereas the way RIM went about it is now going to be their downfall. And most companies will never forget the amount of money Microsoft forced them to pay ... they will never forget ... ever. Google has this one, just like the dominate any market they touch.

Not to hijack this thread, which we are....Microsoft was the leader in their day and Google is the leader in their day. But it would be unwise for any investor, IT person, or citizen to get very comfortable with a specific technology, cause that is when things are ripe for upheaval.

I do agree with your thoughts on cloud computing, RIM and Microsoft's profits.
 
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So, what that says to me is:

The Pre can do what Android and the iPhone can do in their browsers (javascript/HTML/etc.), but it can't do what Android and the iPhone can do in their SDKs (ie. java and/or natively compiled programs).

I'm not convinced that the Pre will be better at running Google-like apps than Google's own OS. It might be better at wrapping them up in a bow, but actually delivering them? doubt it.

And, yet, that seems to be all the Pre is about.

It would seem that the Pre can do what others can do easily, sure. But since none of us have seen the full software, as even Engadget and the like didn't a get a true hands on I am willing to wait to predict their fall from grace "PRE" launch. I will agree their name is horrid and I like the little green mascot.
 
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The video was lame and bias. It all had to do with the order you had put the tests in that won. I mean come on ... G1 didn't even make it to the keyboard challange and it's ACES over all of them combined. That keyboard is the only thing keeping blackberry in the game and now the storm is killing them now that it's gone.

Remember folks this is Google's first attempt at a smart phone relationship. Iphone aside ... how long has Microsoft, Blackberry and Palm been at it. Just imagine what the G2 - G3 brings us. I for one know it's going to be complete dominance.
 
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I for one know it's going to be complete dominance.

Oh, good lord, I certainly hope not. That would suck azz.


As for competing with "iPhone, Palm, Windows Mobile" etc...


Those comparisons are due to the delusions of the masses. The same delusions that make them ooh and aah, and jump up and down about how much better piece-of-crap-car-from-ford is vs piece-of-crap-car-from-gm, or visa versa. They've got a pet platform (ford or gm ... or mopar, or whatever), and they just want to keep up with the Jonses, or one-up the Jonses. So as long as their drug-dealer (ford, gm, dodge, etc.) keeps giving them the same crap over again, only slightly better with a slightly different shine on it ... they ooh and aah. Meanwhile, their drug-dealer hasn't done anything interesting nor truly evolutionary (much less revolutionary) in decades.

What matters is not iPhone vs G1. What matters is:


  • For you, as a consumer, does the G1, or the Android platform, with its application ecosystem, meet your needs and goals as a personal device?
  • For developers, does the SDK give them the ability to develop the apps they want to deliver, and does the app-ecosystem and user base make the platform an attractive target?
  • For device makers and Google, is the combination of the above healthy enough for them to meet their goals (device makers: selling devices; Google: ... "changing the world", or whatever their real goal is with Android), such that they keep delivering new hardware and/or android versions?


As Apple showed between 13 and 5 years ago, you don't have to do this by aiming for external goals (like competing with the Jonses named Microsoft and Dell). They looked at "who is our niche? and what do we have to do to retain a healthy market"? They didn't say "we have to make a Windows killer!" (in fact, they said exactly the opposite: Jobs came out and said "the war for the desktop is over, and Microsoft won", and basically meant 'get over it, forget about them, now lets get back to making a better Macintosh'). They said "we have to make our OS better than it was, but still focused on what we designed it to, and focused on what will keep our target market interested in it".

Further, when you look at the products from the 90's that said "We're going to make a Windows killer!" (OS/2, Be, etc.) ... not one of them survived. They had an artificial goal that had them focused externally on keeping up with someone else, instead of focused internally on being their own platform, and refining/evolving that "own platorm" goal. The "we need a (that platform) killer" model was shown to be a massive failure.

Saying "we need to have an iPhone killer!" or "we need to compete with Blackberry" is BS. It's a false goal. What we need is for Android to stick to its actual visions and designs, and refine those consistently and accurately, such that it retains healthy evolution and a healthy (application and device) ecosystem. None of that requires looking over our shoulders at what kinds of pretty candy is on the iPhone.

So, anytime someone says "we need an iPhone killer", or something equally stupid, it tells me that they really don't understand what it takes for a platform to be successful. It tells me that really, they're just jealous of that other platform in some degree (or jealous of the people who are using it), and don't really care about their own platform's health and viability.



So... if someone insists that Android needs "multi-touch", but they can't tell me a reason that doesn't involve the iPhone ... then I dismiss them as not really having a good idea. They're just trying to keep up with the Jonses. They're not really thinking about what will keep Android healthy and alive, and focused on its internal goals and targets.

If someone insists that Android needs "be like a Blackberry or business users wont take Android seriously", again, I dismiss them. They're just trying to keep up with the Jonses. They're not really thinking about what will keep Android healthy and alive, and focused on its internal goals and targets.

If you want to get my attention, tell me what about that specific feature will specifically enrich Android itself. What will it specifically let us do, that we don't do now, and that we NEED to do? How much better is it REALLY (what measures of usability are shown to be enhanced, what behaviors/results does it give us that are consistent with the Android internal goals and targets)? And, most importantly, how does it fit into the vision of what Android is, and should be?
 
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The iPhone was highly sucessfull bcos it had lots of followers outside the US. Reason?? it was a gsm phone.

Using sprint and CDMA will not help palm. Hopefully they use their business model and make gms (unlocked) phones for europe.

less than .0001% of people buy phones bcos they are open source (geeks).
If you tell my wife about open source, she will ask where is the BBQ.

People buy phones bcos of the hype, usefullness, functions and if it complements their sexiness... I must say i lost cool points going from iPhone to the G1.

The Pre is a very good looking phone. I like what they did. Make it look like the iPhone and add more. Why hide the facts??
 
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I don't care about looking slicker, sexier, or glossier.


Look here.


Utilitarian == good,

Slick/gloss/sheen are for fashionistas and fanboys.

... who cares? This isn't a popularity contest.

You may not care but the the most successful cell phones are the ones aimed at the masses not at people like you. And those want glossy, sexy not a brick that looks utilitarian. Fashionistas? Fanboys? Sorry. Image matters. It's why people where a suit to interviews and dress nice on dates. You can ignore it but your in the overwhelming minority when it comes to all the people that buy a cell phone. The average consumer doesn't walk into the Verizon store and ask about topics like if a given cellphone's OS is built on the Linux Kernal or what the App store's SDK is. And this is about business and taking some marketshare. It is a popularity contest.

I did see those htc rumors but they where posted well after i started this thread. Regardless, at this point they are still only rumors on a blog.
 
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