Ah Martimus, GREAT info bro. Very enlightening, and educational. It's stuff like that that can make a guy rethink his whole stance surrounding the policing they do! Lol
Metfan, sorry if that post came across as a personal attack bro, that wasn't my intention. If it came across like I was angry in that post, I wasn't. Those were merely my opinions of Google versus the opinions expressed by others here (not just yours, there were other accusations of this context that I was debating against) that came (mostly I think) from that article about them 'squeezing their grip' on Android.
For the record, that article is written by someone who was (I feel) making accusations of his own that may or may not have had any factual foundation behind it. Everyone has their own opinions and biases. I have mine, he has his, everyone else has their own. So if mine came off sounding as if I feel my opinions are somehow superior to everyone elses, well don't worry... I don't take myself too seriously, you probably shouldn't either.
My views and opinions differ from these (I'll address them one by one so it doesn't look like I'm attempting to put things in anyones mouth)...
Google is as neck deep in this crap as Moto, VZW, AT&T, HTC, and whoever else...
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Secondly, I don't think it is just VZW, Moto, AT&T either. I think Google (yes Google) has their hands in it as well, either by choice or force
... if by 'having a hand in', or 'neck deep in this crap' this refers to the spyware being implemented by Verizon to see who's rooted so they can throttle your data, I don't see where Google would have any interest in doing so as that would adversely effect their revenue. (IMO)
these companies, and i mean all of them, not just VZW/Moto...but Google and everyone else as well...are potentially going to take away the thing that brought all of us together here on these forums...
... I don't see where you can tie Google into taking away Android. Their new stance is designed primarily to keep Android from becoming fragmented so badly. They want to have a consistency among Android devices hardware wise so that when they come out with updates, they can be rolled out to all devices. Right now this isn't the case because a lot of devices don't have the necessary hardware to allow for it.
Anyone who doesn't agree with their new stance is welcome to do so, but I personally see it as a good thing. We've seen soooo much bickering on these boards by people who bought an Android device and then never recieved an update, or couldn't do the things other Android devices could do... and they always end up blaming Google for it. That criticism is unjustified of course, but it doesn't stop it from happening. So if Googe is seeing all of this blame getting thrown their way, and they've finally had enough of it and are saying, "ok let's make a standard set for Android devices so our name doesn't get dragged through the mud anymore", then I'm behind that decision.
It might mean they aren't
completely open anymore, but if being completely open means getting a bad reputation, then why remain completely open???
this alone should prove that Google doesn't really care about any of us...
... I guess you could say I'm very bias in this stance because I posted a thread in the Android Lobby about a month or so ago that was my list of things I wished Google would do with Android to clean up all the messes some of the OEMs were creating with the OS. And it seems as though they were listening to me because a lot (not all) of what I had said I wished they would do, is what they seem to be doing now.
So naturally, I tend to disagree with the above statement as it seems to me that they do care about those people who have felt like they're getting screwed by the fragmentation. But of course just like everything else in life, not everyone is going to feel the same way about it.
it doesn't matter if it applies to newer releases...that means HTC's locked bootloader? approved by Google...VZW's call home features? approved by Google....Blur? approved by Google...Sense? approved by Google...
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the prescedent is that Google themselves are saying that they can veto anything...and new HTC phones are being released with locked bootloaders...that means that this is OK in Google's eyes...
... within these statements I felt like the article was either misunderstood, or the article itself got it wrong. Because the above makes it seem as though now everyone has to send in their devices one by one to Google, have them look it over, and check everything off individually in order for it to be cleared for production, and sold to the public.
That isn't the way I understand it to be. Although I don't claim to know everything about this issue, the way I understand it from the articles I've read, if Google doesn't like the direction a certain OEM is taking their supplied OS, then they reserve the right to pull all of their registered products from that device.
Who would argue with that decision?
That's no different from sponsors pulling their contracts with Tiger Woods after his affairs hit the news tabloids. If they don't want to be associated with a man who doesn't have a character they want their name to be associated with, they have every right to distance themselves from him. Likewise, if Google feels like an OEM has created a device that either doesn't live up to their standards, or isn't going to be regarded as a quality device, then why shouldn't they have the right to pull their products from it? Why should they have to have their name associated with a product that they feel could give them a bad reputation?
This is a move to protect their brand. That's just smart business. They've taken a lot of flack for not doing just that up until this point. Just because they're finally realizing they should do so a little late in the game, doesn't mean they shouldn't try to at all. Better late then never (as my mamma always says).
if Google was so worried about that, then why not force all manufacturers to install Vanilla Android?...the answer? because they care more about making money than they do about customer choice, or being "open"
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they will...because they want fat wallets...
... this I feel is an unfair criticism. Throwing 'they just want to make money' at ANY company I feel is an underhanded tactic. Because it makes anyone sound as if they are ruthless, coniving, greedy, and evil... when in fact making money is naturally the pursuit of any and every company in existance. It's unfair to throw that at anyone because you can't point out any company out there that isn't concerned about making money. And if there was a company out there wasn't at all concerned with it, more than likely they aren't a company any longer.
And this doesn't just go for Google. I've stood up for Apple, Versizon, Motorola, Kawasaki, Axiom and several other companies in various posts on this forum, and other forums I'm active in all over the internet. It's easy to bring that up to make a company look bad, but it's a frivolous attack because the definition of any company is selling things to the public for financial gain. An entity that doesn't take money for their services is not considered a company, they are considered a foundation or a non-profit organization.
So just the fact that they are a company means we can assume they want to make money. Can't hold that against them.
advertising money isn't enough?...you don't think Google has benefited from the HUGE Droid Does push by VZW/Moto??...
Sure they have. They've benefited by putting the internet in more peoples hands than before. This was the whole strategy behind Android. Increase the smartphone market. Dumbphones didn't get internet, so let's get more smartphones in peoples hands.
BOOM... as a direct result of Android, ALL of the other players have had to raise the bar. Which means that smartphones are so attractive to consumers now, they're converting over to smartphones in droves. Which benefits Google all around. It isn't just the Droid that has increased Googles revenues, it's the smartphone market as a whole.
This is why I said that Verizon/Moto doesn't intimidate Google in the least. It wouldn't matter if Moto dropped Android altogether and created their own OS (which is a rumor that's going around), because Google would make money off of it as well. They've already accomplished their goal, they've made us all addicted to having a smartphone in our pocket to get on the internet through out the day on. Which is why they could shut down Android today and it wouldn't matter, someone else would come around and fill the void.
Not that I think they'd do that. Just pointing out that Android is not as vital to Google as many people seem to think it is.
...its not open to VZW either...everything now has to be approved by Google...which means that it is Google that chooses what is right, and wrong to come on our phones...that is completely opposite of the definition of open source...
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Google is just as greedy as anyone else...and if they were as open and consumer friendly as they and some others would want us to believe...they would have squashed the locking down by OEMs and carriers long ago...
... it seems to me this is a contradictory statement. 'If they were as open as they want us to believe, they would squash the locking down by the OEMs'... open means OEMs can do whatever they want... including locking them down. However, squashing the locking down of bootloaders for example would be a effort to keep things more open for the consumer.
And I don't know if that's what they're attempting to do or not, but if it is then you could say that they are consumer friendly.
What about the article claiming Google plays favorites? Making sure certain OEMs have access to things first?...that is not open OR consumer friendly...
... this I feel like is a bias of the author of that article. Like I said, everyone has their own opinions. I feel as though this is just his opinion (but then I guess, that's just my opinion, lol). I don't think it's really all that clear yet why Google hasn't released HoneyComb yet. There has been much speculation, but that's all it is... speculation.
Some of the speculation is that they don't want the Android tablets to become as fragmented as the phones have. That they want to make sure the OEMs who are using it, use the hardware it was designed to run on. Now, is this completely open? I'd agree that it's not. But like I asked earlier, if remaining completely open means destroying credibility, and becoming the joke of the electronic community, then why remain COMPLETELY open?
Many are jumping on the bandwagon now that Google is just a greedy, evil little company like everyone else in this world because they aren't quite as open an OS as they were in the past. But what many fail to take into consideration is what they're closing off, and why? If they saw that the way things were going, Android as an OS had peaked and were now starting to spiral towards failure, wouldn't it be a good decision to try to avert that?
Again, I don't claim to know what Google is thinking. But that's just as good a guess at what they're doing as any other guess flying around the internet so far.
rooting is NO different than jailbreaking...but that doesn't mean Moto/HTC/Samsung has to just allow you to do it...
... ok on this point I can't really debate this very intelligently unfortunately as I'm not really all that computer smart. All I know is that I was in on a debate in the Android Lounge a while back about rooting, and someone much smarter than me pointed out that OEMs can not make a device that cannot be rooted. Something about the very nature of software that makes creating a root-less OS impossible.
If anyone else here knows what I'm refering to please feel free to fill us in... or refute that statement entirely if that's the case. Like I said I really don't know the ins and outs of ROMs and the like, I'm just going by what someone else said when they wrote that there is no danger of OEMs creating an OS that cannot be rooted because there is no such thing.
This would clear up all of the concerns people are bringing up thinking that pretty soon we won't be able to root our devices. As far as I understand it, we never have to worry about that.
Ok so all that being said, I just enjoy coming on here to debate things with other people, solve problems I'm having, or discuss matters with people who know more than I do. I certainly don't take anything personally, or try to make things personal with other members. Hotly debated issues are simply that IMO... hotly debated issues. Sure we can get worked up from time to time about things we're passionate about. That's what passion does to a person.
But just becaus I personally disagree with someone elses views, doesn't mean I think any less of that person. In particular, I usually agree with most of what Metfan posts and thinks. For instance...
agree completely...im guilty of firing up the tether app just to see how it worked once or twice, and showing a couple of people how it works...do i think i should have to pay $20 to do that? no i don't...but i can't get pissed at Verizon for trying to block me from doing so...
remember that you are buying a subsidized phone FROM VZW...and than using that device to access a service PROVIDED by VZW...and if something goes wrong with your phone you RETURN it to VZW...and its REPLACED by VZW...
These are all things that are influenced by rooting, modding, tinkering, overclocking, tethering, etc...Verizon is protecting THEIR property, and THEIR customers...we might not like it...but you CANNOT blame Verizon...
... these viewpoints I feel are dead on. And one reason I'm not all that concerned with anything P3 put in that post is because I personally don't have a problem with Verizon flagging me for rooting my phone and denying me a warranty claim because I would never try to turn my device in under warranty after rooting it... because rooting it voids the warranty. So by all means, flag me for being rooted, I don't care at all. If this helps keep Android an open OS then I'm all for it. It seems to me that's why all these measures are being put into place now anyway, because of all the money they're losing on devices returned under warranty that people have bricked while trying to ROM, or theme after they've rooted. So I can stand behind Verizon 100% on that issue.
Also as Metfan points out, I too have tethered my device to my computer, I won't deny that. But I also don't blame them for trying to take measures to protect their service from being stolen. I'm not mad at them for that.
Actually, I'm not mad at them for anything yet. If I was, I'd change carriers like I have in the past. My statements regarding Verizon pertained to all of these scenarios people are throwing around about things they feel Verizon MIGHT be thinking about doing. Like denying us service if they find out we're rooted. I don't mind them denying any warranty claim I might make if they know I'm rooted, but I certainly wouldn't be mad if they cut me off for being rooted. First of all I don't think they'd stand a chance in court in defending their right to do such a thing, because I don't think they do have a right to do so. And secondly, that would just leave me the freedom to go to a different carrier without having to pay a cancellation fee.
So why get mad?
,,lol just joking ,,,,I have heard equal stories but have not tried gb yet ,,,,I'm stuck on my dark slide 4.2 build and it's so perfect I even refuse to change wallpapers lol ,,,,I have not had a single issue and will prob leave my x be the way it is until I get a new device soon
