I feel Google owns me now - concerned about data privacy

[dgray]

Just do what I do. Fill up the Internet with so much bogus and fake information about yourself that nobody could ever find the truth.

Sorry, but I disagree. There are sufficient automated techniques to sort through large quantities of data and correlate information.

Secondly, time is of essence for me - I don't see myself wasting time generating bogus data.

 

[Chromag]

Yes, when you install an app, it tells you what phone features it uses - but the details were not clear to me.

I downloaded a couple of apps, and they gave me a about a page full of list of features they would access. I don't recall the exact wording, but one application said it will access the phone calls - first, I did not see the need for that application to access the phone calls, secondly I did not understand what it would mean for the application to access the phone calls - will it store the phone calls made or received in some database, will it store those phone numbers, how will it ensure the security of that data stored, how will it ensure that I am protected from any damages due to lost or stolen data.

Certainly not straightforward from my perspective.

I was specifically responding to another user's concerns about applications having access to GPS features. If someone is paranoid that applications will know where you are - then don't install any application that has access to the GPS features. I find THAT straightforward. I said nothing about other features.

 

[Taero]

Just to jump in here, they do things like access the phone calls so that when you get a phone call they don't keep running and playing music and basically screwing up your phone call. Pretty certain it's not so they can relate who you're on the phone with back to HQ (though I can't be certain

 

[jasonsmith]

Most people's info has been residing on servers since the internet began, we just didn't know and we didn't put it there on purpose. Your service providers also have all your info and they are real people only dealing with a few compared to Google. Your Visa stubs with your name on them are sitting under some counter some place of some store that you visited. You probably throw out papers and documents with you name, address and who knows what other kind of info on them. There are so many places and circumstances that we get out selves into that put our info at risk. We can be worried and take precautions but no matter what we do people's info will be out there and available for those who really want to know it. It's too late now, the 1950's would have been a good time to start being cautious.

 

[dgray]

Most people's info has been residing on servers since the internet began, we just didn't know and we didn't put it there on purpose. Your service providers also have all your info and they are real people only dealing with a few compared to Google. Your Visa stubs with your name on them are sitting under some counter some place of some store that you visited. You probably throw out papers and documents with you name, address and who knows what other kind of info on them. There are so many places and circumstances that we get out selves into that put our info at risk. We can be worried and take precautions but no matter what we do people's info will be out there and available for those who really want to know it. It's too late now, the 1950's would have been a good time to start being cautious.

That is a gross oversimplication and generalization of a more complex problem. Also, factually inaccurate - ISPs do not have all my info.

Back when internet started, different independent entities would have different pieces of information about the user. An ISP may know which website I go to - but they don't have my contact list, they don't have my emails or my phone logs, and while the information may be tied to a MAC address, it is not tied to a user id (e.g. gmail id).

In terms of layers of network stack, an ISP has lower level of protocol information, and google has application level data about a user.

Things were different in 1950s in terms of entities ability to gather and correlate different pieces of data about a user and exploit that information.Today those capabilities are exponentially stronger, and the demand for that kind of information is higher.

Now is the time to be more cautious, not less.

 

[jasonsmith]

...Now is the time to be more cautious, not less.

dgray I had a long winded retort to your last post but after looking back into your posts I see you believe in this very strongly I don't think there's a point in posting it. Like it's been said above a couple of times your general privacy concerns are valid but I do think your taking it to a higher level.

Sounds as though your not getting an android phone because of it though and that's a real shame.

 

[Chromag]

Back when internet started, different independent entities would have different pieces of information about the user. An ISP may know which website I go to - but they don't have my contact list, they don't have my emails or my phone logs, and while the information may be tied to a MAC address, it is not tied to a user id (e.g. gmail id).

Technically it would be tied to your IP address and not specifically your MAC address. If your ISP really wanted that info they could easily do more than track what websites you visit. Anything not secured via SSL they could technically access. See the news about people who got cease orders from their ISP's for sharing movies and music. It's way more than just websites you visit.

In terms of layers of network stack, an ISP has lower level of protocol information, and google has application level data about a user.

Are you just ignoring me? I think I've pointed this out 2 or 3 times in this thread. You are NOT REQUIRED to use a Gmail account or Google to use this phone. You created a Google account on your own based on your previous posts. Yet you are afraid of attaching that account to your phone. If you are so paranoid - why create an account in the first place?

Things were different in 1950s in terms of entities ability to gather and correlate different pieces of data about a user and exploit that information.Today those capabilities are exponentially stronger, and the demand for that kind of information is higher.

Welcome to the internet. If you wish to be in the 1950's era unplug your computer now.

Now is the time to be more cautious, not less.

There's a difference in being cautious and irrationally paranoid. I'm beginning to think you just enjoy spouting your paranoia than actually finding a solution. I've posted a few solutions for you that you choose to ignore.

 

[tekonus]

If I use an iphone with a gmail account, at least Apple will not have access to my gmail usage if I were to use that using a computer.

... but... Google still will... you would still be using Gmail. Also... Google will still know what you are doing if you use Gmail on an iPhone... If you don't want Google to have your info, don't use their services.

An ISP may know which website I go to - but they don't have my contact list, they don't have my emails or my phone logs, and while the information may be tied to a MAC address, it is not tied to a user id (e.g. gmail id).

If your ISP can't tell every single thing you are doing, then how come they can send you a letter of copyright infringement when you download a movie torrent that shows: time, date, exact file name and extension, file size, ip address of the pc that downloaded the file and the ip address of the website you got the torrent from... even if you are using software like PeerBlock that should block most trackers?

P.S. I've received one of those letters... and the accuracy was uncanny. So you can't call bullshit on it, its not only possible, but happening.

 

[Chromag]

... but... Google still will... you would still be using Gmail. Also... Google will still know what you are doing if you use Gmail on an iPhone... If you don't want Google to have your info, don't use their services.

DING DING DING! Give that man a prize!

 

[dgray]

jasonsmith - Yes, I do feel strongly about it both in practical terms and on principal. At this time, yes I am going to stay away from an android phone. If I feel my concerns are adequately addressed in future, or if I try out and feel that other options are equally bad, I will reconsider. In fact I was quite keen on exploring an android phone, and that's why I started spending the time looking into one.

Chromag - If you review my prior posts, you will understand why I needed to setup a gmail account. May be it is my ignorance and there are other ways to achieve the same, but with reasonable research, I was unable to find workarounds. And while you claim I am not required to setup a gmail account, I don't see how I can reasonably use an android phone in so many ways, including the market place, without a google account. If there is reasonably documented information on how to effectively use an android phone without linking it to a google account, I would be happy to review and follow those steps. Else, what you are saying are just claims which to me, are not substantiated.

I would be happy to go into the details and debate about the pros and cons of various kinds of information sharing such as what an ISP has about a user, and others such as using gmail from iphone vs. the integration of gmail id with an android phone and there are significant differences. But I am not sure that's a great use of my time.

Lastly, again this is not an intellectual debate from my perspective, but was trying to solve a real immediate and perceived long term problem to which I still don't see a solution. I have a reasonable confidence in what I am saying. I see a strong downside for an individual user in the way android phones are integrated with google. I am not talking in terms of short time spans, but I am old enough to look at situations from a long term perspective.

Consider what I am saying as thoughts to explore, and not as an argument from my side that you should feel the need to defend.

 

[colnago]

What are you afraid of? Unless you are selling meth or some other illegal activity what do you have to hide? If google uses your private info without your consent sure them and get rich.You have nothing to fear, you are just being a worry wart.

While I agree with all the concerns already listed, for me, my main concern with using an Android device "to its fullest" (e.g. synching all 3rd party email accounts, etc) is one's Gmail account being a single point of failure if compromised, especially if you have email confirmations for financial transactions, other online accounts etc.

That said, my next Android device will be used with little insight/access into my regularly used accounts.

 

[bass2rez]

I picked this thread up after having exactly the same concerns an the original poster, dgray, and found this thread via a Google search. I find it a shame that this thread is in a phone-specific area, and not one of the more general areas on this forum, where it would reach a wider audience.

I am a recent owner of an Android phone and I have an additional concern that has only been touched on. That of the contacts, and their synchronisation with my Google account.

It has been stated above by a number of people that you make your own decision as to whether to allow Google to have your personal data, and to some extent this is true, and I am not concerned if they know what web pages I have accessed, or other more trivial personal data.

However, if you consider contact information, this becomes a different matter, and you need to consider whether your contact data is really yours to make this decision with? Most contact information will have names, addresses, phone numbers and possibly dates of birth, for birthday reminders.

When I first got the phone, and connected up to the service with my Google account, I did not properly stop to consider that Google will (and now have) all this contact information.

I have not asked any of my friends and colleagues whether they mind Google having their name and address stored online, and at no point was this even suggested as a potential requirement.

On all my previous phones, I have has this information within the phone, but have not been forced to synchronise this information online.

I came to realise how much information was now with Google when I was trying to make the phone remind me when one of my contacts birthdays was due, and found that I had to modify settings in my Google account online to achieve this, rather than some settings on the phone, as I had expected.

I do not feel comfortable with this current situation, but I also wish to have a properly functioning phone, and from my current understandings, it would appear that unless I synchronise my contacts with Google, then I cannot have my phone remind me when one of my contacts birthdays is due.

I feel this is quite unacceptable.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[peterpp]

If people are so afraid of their privacy being invaded, then they shouldn't even leave the house, don't get a cellphone and don't go online. The second they step out of the house, they lose their privacy.

 

[AvengerBB]

People want innovation and total convenience but aren't willing to share the right information to make it possible.

Do you just use over the air TV signals or do you have a DVR which is reporting back what you are watching so that "they" can make better shows for you? Do you drive around in a 1980 car or do you have a modern model that tracks all your driving to help diagnose issues and respond better to what you want?

Personally, knowing google stores my contact list and knows what apps I buy/run is the least of my worries. And I like that if I get a new phone or need to reset this one, it'll all just come right back.

 

[tomhorn]

What the OP fails to realize is that there are many companies out there that have far more information about his personal life than Google ever will, and that doesn't even count the government.

Privacy is a myth people. It hasn't existed in a long time.

 

[s.m.knipe]

Actually this is the first Android phone I have owned that you do NOT have to sign in to your gmail accountwhen you first turn it on, and the only one where the default option for contacts and calendar is on the phone (not synced with Google). This has to be the least Google-integrated Android device available. My advice is to reset your device, save all contacts to the sim or phone memory, root the device (because of AT&T's stupidity, NOT Google's) so you can side-load apps and remove the google and at&t apps, use Slide Me or another market alternative for downloads, use fennec or opera as a browser (or actually just disable "use location" under security and clear browsing history ridiculously often in the default browser), use a third-party IM client and maps alternative, and disable all background data sync. That should give you full functionality without google's umbrella.
Lastly, you should run John Connor, the machines are on their way!

 

[alphadog00]

Although i do agree with the OP about Google having way to much information:

Worst case: They have your contacts, calendar, email, birthdays, addresses. This is a data mining dream. Think about how hard it would be to ever hide from anyone - there is one big database that has links to everyone you have ever known. They know what you search for, where you live, where you work, and who all your associates are. If you use google docs, they may know even more about you.

There are ways to sync an android phone with things other then google - do that and google has no data. Exchange, Outlook, and Thunderbird are possibilities.

The great thing is you have a choice, and you can use this phone without google if you choose too.

 

[s.m.knipe]

Agreed, that was my point, that Android can be made Google-less. But I seriously doubt that Google has all this information in a single database or even accessible by a single key or credential. If I remember correctly, when they were in trouble over saving browsing history it was found out that the history is saved for the search algorithm and ads, and is severed from any trace of the username it identifier, and even then it is well-encrypted. Actually, each separate piece is probably separately encrypted, severed, and stored. While true that anything manmade can be man-unmade with the right know-how, I am not worried or feel threatened. Maybe I trust systems too much, but Android has been around for two years now (and I would direct the OP to some of the early posts over at Andros Community which spent months focused on this issue after the G1 came out), and Google has been around a while- I think a problem would have surfaced by now if one were likely to happen...

 

[tomhorn]

Worst case: They have your contacts, calendar, email, birthdays, addresses. This is a data mining dream. Think about how hard it would be to ever hide from anyone - there is one big database that has links to everyone you have ever known. They know what you search for, where you live, where you work, and who all your associates are. If you use google docs, they may know even more about you.

That database you speak of actually already exists ... and not at Google. In fact, there are several companies that have far greater data warehouses containing your personal information than Google does.

The federal government (and many commercial companies) already have all that same information, plus have cross-correlated it to all your credit bureau information, your banking and credit card purchase information, your travel data, your internet activity, and much more.

Google merely would have a sub-set of the data that is available about you. Seriously, just what do people think Google is actually going to do with all of that information? They have such a vast quantity of data that taking the time to single out one person doesn't seem very likely to me ... especially for the 99.9% of the world that no one cares about. Criminals and celebrities maybe, but John Doe from Albuquerque ... not so much.

 

[looksbetterinred]

I use yahoo for my email.... never have had a gmail account. I set up a gmail account to use the market, but all my email still comes through yahoo. my contacts do not sync with yahoo OR gmail. You could do the same thing with a pop account. It is soooooo easy to limit ties with google (email account just for market) and still use the full function of the phone. There are a TON of apps out there that will do everything imbedded in the phone.

 

[moe123]

I completely agree with the concerns of the poster. This is something I have been trying to research for a very long time. Unfortunately most of the replies are the typical nonsense you expect back. Very few answers were useful.
Answers like you are paranoid, do you have something to hide, this is the new age, blah blah blah.
I for instance have my concerns about what data is being collected, especially from a device like a cell phone where you don

 

[qwertyaas]

For myself, I made a new Gmail account and haven't or will not sync any personal information with it - as I had the same concern.

If I need to backup contacts, I just use the built-in backup or backup apps.

But this seems more of an issue with Smartphones and internet in general as opposed to Google. At a certain point you realize, if you have an internet connection, nothing you do is truely private (pretty discomforting actually...).

 

[skinien]

Here's how I see it: There are two vulnerabilities, internal and external.

1. Google is in the business to make money. If they purposely mishandle the personal information of their customers, their business is over. That's speaking of the company as a whole, it still doesn't control what any one employee might do. This is something Google must be concerned about because they must protect our information in order to protect themselves.

2. I'm pretty certain that my information is pretty secure on the servers of a multi-billion dollar company whose business is the internet. I bet that they have a pretty competent security staff.

 

[3gAndroid]

Privacy?

It's far too late to worry about privacy, no matter what smartphone or computer you're using.

Those who believe that Google or any of the others for that matter, is not cleverly and secretly collecting your personal data, are in denial. For those who believe if caught, they would suffer consequences, think again it's not going to happen.

Welcome to 2010. Focus on other things, Google is the least of your problems.

 

[emuneee]

You guys are also assuming a lot. You make it seem like Google has bad intentions. So you make your Android phone "Google-less". That is contradictory. Google owns the source to Android. Who's to say they aren't already maliciously, without you knowledge, mining all of your data on your "Google-less" Android phone using some hidden software??

Why aren't your worried about your wireless carrier as a source of concern. They have your calling history, your text conversations, your browsing history and internet usage, your private account information (address, SSN) all in their database. Furthermore, the technology you use to engage in voice communications (GSM) has been cracked.

My point is, Google is probably the LEAST of your worries. You assume a certain amount of risk whenever you expose yourself to the internet. Luckily, if you are fearful, there are options ie. prepaid phones