Crazy Politicians

[JimmyRayBob]

Well then do you not feel that many peoples view on politics in the US is quite skewed, if Obama is considered "pretty far left"?

This guy I'd consider pretty far left; Joe Higgins.ie | Socialist Party & United Left Alliance TD for Dublin West
Now we don't have many of them here (although Sinn F

 

[JimmyRayBob]

If you look at the things he has implemented he would look center-right (in the context of struggling with an economic crises).

I don't know how you can say that ... he hasn't done ANYTHING to deal with the economic crisis. No one here has. It's all just TALK - no one is doing a dang thing. (a hardcore conservative would say that no one SHOULD do anything - just let the market correct itself. I don't agree with that).

 

[ElasticNinja]

I don't know how you can say that ... he hasn't done ANYTHING to deal with the economic crisis. No one here has. It's all just TALK - no one is doing a dang thing. (a hardcore conservative would say that no one SHOULD do anything - just let the market correct itself. I don't agree with that).

He introduced a massive spending plan (which has lots of flaws I'm sure) to try keep the US economy afloat.
If that had not been done the US would be in a much worse place (as can be seen by other countries with similar issues).
I would not envy someone trying to deal with the current crisis, and the US economy needs a major re-balancing (afaik Obama has done little on this front).

 

[ElasticNinja]

Oh come on ... everyone knows the world revolves around the U.S. and nothing else matters

But seriously .... some people do consider Obama an outright socialist (i'm not in that camp). but if he were center - right (as you put it), he would be a republican. His voting record while in the senate definitely showed him to be one of the most liberal members of the senate. And since he can only govern in the US ... how he compares to the rest of the world is a tough comparison I think.

I'm sure there are center right voting members of the Republican party - there are more of them in the Democratic party, but its a Right wing party, edging further right for the last few decades.
As for the senate, he had much more free rein there (I already stated I dont feel he is ideologically center-right)

 

[JimmyRayBob]

He introduced a massive spending plan (which has lots of flaws I'm sure) to try keep the US economy afloat.
If that had not been done the US would be in a much worse place (as can be seen by other countries with similar issues).
I would not envy someone trying to deal with the current crisis, and the US economy needs a major re-balancing (afaik Obama has done little on this front).

I don't know if the massive spending plan(s) did any good ... that's debatable (but not now for me). The biggest problem we have here is the debt and it's kind of hard to spend your way out of debt. We borrow too much, we spend too much and both democrats and republicans are to blame. I try not to forget that congress spends the money - not the president. The president just says yes or no. I certainly don't blame Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush for the mess we are in - it's the fault of the greedy, self serving members of congress from both sides of the aisle. (yes, i feel better now after getting that off my chest).

 

[JimmyRayBob]

I'm sure there are center right voting members of the Republican party - there are more of them in the Democratic party, but its a Right wing party, edging further right for the last few decades.
As for the senate, he had much more free rein there (I already stated I dont feel he is ideologically center-right)

If we're going back decades ... this country has been moving LEFT for quite a while. Policies that were once considered "liberal or left" are now part of the republican platform ...

yes, lately there has been some pushback by the right ... no doubt about that. That's what started this whole thread and is something i mentioned very early on ... we are becoming more and more POLARIZED every day. (personally, i blame the 24 hour news cycle - these TV shows and internet are ALWAYS ON and they've got to fill the airtime with something (anything) to get ratings.). For me, I'd just rather watch the US Open on ESPN right now (dang, Rory's playing GREAT)

 

[ElasticNinja]

I don't know if the massive spending plan(s) did any good ... that's debatable (but not now for me). The biggest problem we have here is the debt and it's kind of hard to spend your way out of debt. We borrow too much, we spend too much and both democrats and republicans are to blame. I try not to forget that congress spends the money - not the president. The president just says yes or no. I certainly don't blame Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush for the mess we are in - it's the fault of the greedy, self serving members of congress from both sides of the aisle. (yes, i feel better now after getting that off my chest).

It is not just the politicians fault (always the easy target)
The politicians do what the corporations want.
Also to a lesser extent what the public and unions want, and the publics opinion is shaped by the media owned by the corporations.
The public debt situation is worse than the governmental one, I would not forget that. Perhaps Reagen and to a lesser extent G.W. Bush, Bush snr. and Clinton can be blamed for loosenig credit regulations.. but.

As for debt you cant spend your way out of (cough Japan) but its not worth cutting massively right away if its not immediately necessary.
There will have to be large spending cuts and huge tax hike to make up for the last twenty five years of an unsustainable economic bubble.

 

[ElasticNinja]

If we're going back decades ... this country has been moving LEFT for quite a while. Policies that were once considered "liberal or left" are now part of the republican platform ...

From the 1800s onwards to now, averaged out, yes, thank god!
It was the liberal/lefty position to ban slave labour, pay workers a fair wage, reduce the power of the rich, end child labour, womens rights, etc.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

It is not just the politicians fault (always the easy target)
The politicians do what the corporations want.
Also to a lesser extent what the public and unions want, and the publics opinion is shaped by the media owned by the corporations.
The public debt situation is worse than the governmental one, I would not forget that. Perhaps Reagen and to a lesser extent G.W. Bush, Bush snr. and Clinton can be blamed for loosenig credit regulations.. but.

As for debt you cant spend your way out of (cough Japan) but its not worth cutting massively right away if its not immediately necessary.
There will have to be large spending cuts and huge tax hike to make up for the last twenty five years of an unsustainable economic bubble.

I blame the politicians because they are spineless. they know what needs to be done, but won't actually do it because - like you said - they are in the pocket of the corporations / the trial lawyers / the unions /.

As for spending your way out of debt ... it IS immediately necessary ... we cant' keep making it worse. It's going to take YEARS (decades??) to get out of this mess and we can't wait.

Quick question: what's the biggest bailout over here? Wall Street Firms? Unions? Pensions? Nope. Fannie and Freddie! Hundreds of billions of dollars - and not entirely because of loosening regulations. The promise of "affordable housing for everyone" - now we have foreclosures galore. Because politicians decided that everyone should be able to buy a house (with nothing down even). So they deregulate, mandate loans to loan income folks that shouldn't be buying houses and when the market realizes that they can buy and sell loans risk free because fannie and freddie will get bailed out - you get a complete mess.

Yes - some of the deregulation from the right hurt. but so did the idea that everyone should be able to buy a house (from the left) also hurt.

and now my battery on my laptop is dead ...gotta go

 

[ElasticNinja]

I blame the politicians because they are spineless. they know what needs to be done, but won't actually do it because - like you said - they are in the pocket of the corporations / the trial lawyers / the unions /.

That is a very good point, but if the public were more informed this would be less of an issue

As for spending your way out of debt ... it IS immediately necessary ... we cant' keep making it worse. It's going to take YEARS (decades??) to get out of this mess and we can't wait.

I will take decades to get out of the debt situation especially with an aging population. What I mean is that drastic (20% spending cuts, 25% increase in taxation) is not neccessary ATM. Some budget cutbacks are being implemented, and they will get more dramatic in the coming years along with tax increases.

Quick question: what's the biggest bailout over here? Wall Street Firms? Unions? Pensions? Nope. Fannie and Freddie! Hundreds of billions of dollars - and not entirely because of loosening regulations. The promise of "affordable housing for everyone" - now we have foreclosures galore. Because politicians decided that everyone should be able to buy a house (with nothing down even). So they deregulate, mandate loans to loan income folks that shouldn't be buying houses and when the market realizes that they can buy and sell loans risk free because fannie and freddie will get bailed out - you get a complete mess.

Yes - some of the deregulation from the right hurt. but so did the idea that everyone should be able to buy a house (from the left) also hurt.

and now my battery on my laptop is dead ...gotta go

The idea of house ownership is a uniquely English speakin western world thing rather than any political thing. Over here it was the banks pushing for 100+% mortgages, I reckon it was the same in the US, no?

 

[JimmyRayBob]

That is a very good point, but if the public were more informed this would be less of an issue

the general public doesn't care .... to busy watching reality TV ...

 

[JimmyRayBob]

The idea of house ownership is a uniquely English speakin western world thing rather than any political thing. Over here it was the banks pushing for 100+% mortgages, I reckon it was the same in the US, no?

The idea of home ownership was pushed by the politicians here.

The banks were only too happy to take advantage of (abuse??) the situation. The politicians made it easy to abuse the situation.

 

[Isthmus]

Personally I'm fed up with this whole rhetoric about having to be either a democrat or a republican and if you are one or the other then you must by definition be an extreme at either end. That and the fact that these days it seems like once a label is applied to someone it is perfectly acceptable to resort to insult, name calling and ridiculous accusations, rather than delve into meaningful debate and actually working toward compromise solutions.

My take on politics is more of a centrist (call it a moderate if you will). If anything perhaps to the right of center. I believe in relatively conservative politics, and in implementing policies with a clear financial component applied to their implementation. By that same token I believe that countries and societies evolve dynamically and to stick to a single model of government and social policy and assume that it will forever remain unchanging is not just foolish, but also potentially catastrophic. Change should be embraced and if anything explored. At the very least there should be a conscious effort to incubate new ideas and opportunities, not for the sake of change, but for the sake of making the system better. (leaving what constitutes a better system open to debate).

I think Chris Rock nailed it in Never Scared. No normal reasonable person is one thing. Some things I'm conservative about, and others liberal. here is a clip of what Chris Rock had to say on the issue (be warned, Chris drops the f-bomb a few times):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIA4__0DIXE

 

[noah way]

There are two parties: politicians and corporations on one side, citizens on the other.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

OK ... "the vast majority of intellectuals / academia" here in the US are "liberal" - but that's another discussion.

Yes, it think Obama is quite far left on most (not all) counts ... do you agree?
Bush - on a scale of 1 to 100, where 1 is completely liberal and 100 is completely conservative - I put him around 70. He would be further right in my book were it not for his economic policies / budgets. In my opinion, Bush is much more conservative socially than economically. TARP / Bailouts / the fact that he never seemed to veto a spending bill all point to a RELATIVELY liberal economic philosophy. Note i said RELATIVELY. Economically i would call him a "big government republican" - certainly not conservative.

Bush is a RINO.

 

[Martimus]

I'm surprised y'all haven't taken ole John "Seizure World" McCain to task yet! Sadly I think his age is starting to catch up with him and will be surprised if he's re-elected to the Senate too many more times. Personally I think he and Cindy need to retire to their 7000 square foot condo in central Phoenix... or one of their other half dozen homes.

PolitiFact | UPDATED: Eight houses for John & Cindy McCain

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I'm surprised y'all haven't taken ole John "Seizure World" McCain to task yet! Sadly I think his age is starting to catch up with him and will be surprised if he's re-elected to the Senate too many more times. Personally I think he and Cindy need to retire to their 7000 square foot condo in central Phoenix... or one of their other half dozen homes.

PolitiFact | UPDATED: Eight houses for John & Cindy McCain

Will he even live to run for reelection?