Root Enough is Enough..

[droid_freak]

You left out the part about all these people having problems due to rooting, uninstalling apps and altering settings, changing bootloaders and what not. THEN they rely on Moto support staff to fix their F-ups, when they can't update or can't get past the "M" at start.

There's a reason they lock them.

I would think that Moto Support hardly ever helps anyone in this category. Its this community of people that fix those problems.

 

[aholeinthewor1d]

how did they brick phones that are running the leak? ive been reading forums all day and the only thing is once you install the OTA then you cannot SBF back to 21....a 2.2 sbf will be leaked soon enough so what do u mean when u say they knew the leak was out and they bricked phones

 

[Pointguard1122]

By changing the bootloader signature, any phone that attempted to update to the OTA that was not stock was bricked. M bootloop after failing the update. SBF is the ONLY option at that point. Obviously, this makes it worse.

I have done my part and written about it on my small tech blog. I will not link it here out of respect for the owners of this great site. If you want to read it, google "motorola vs customers". Please let me know if any of my facts are incorrect. I have only been on Android for about 5 weeks.

 

[Piiman]

You left out the part about all these people having problems due to rooting, uninstalling apps and altering settings, changing bootloaders and what not. THEN they rely on Moto support staff to fix their F-ups, when they can't update or can't get past the "M" at start.

There's a reason they lock them.

Hmmmm it's The people doing "rooting, uninstalling apps and altering settings, changing bootloaders and what not" and the very people that can fix their phones with a file called the sbf. Moto deliberately made a change to prevent that now and in doing so bricked anyone's phone that tried to use it after the OTA. So why shouldn't they have the burden of fixing them? Their actions don't match theirs or yours logic.

 

[colchiro]

Hmmmm it's The people doing "rooting, uninstalling apps and altering settings, changing bootloaders and what not" and the very people that can fix their phones with a file called the sbf. Moto deliberately made a change to prevent that now and in doing so bricked anyone's phone that tried to use it after the OTA. So why shouldn't they have the burden of fixing them? Their actions don't match theirs or yours logic.

Your entitled to an opinion, but it's apparent you're not a business person having to pay support people for problems caused by risky behavior. Just because something that used to work, doesn't work with the OTA version, doesn't make it intentional.

... and just because you don't like it, doesn't make it wrong.

I commend you on your knowledge of this phone and your ability to hack it. The problem comes from the kid who knows just enough to get into trouble, and bricks his phone.

Not trying to start a pi$$ing war, just stating there's always another side to the story.

 

[sund0wn]

Your entitled to an opinion, but it's apparent you're not a business person having to pay support people for problems caused by risky behavior. Just because something that used to work, doesn't work with the OTA version, doesn't make it intentional.

... and just because you don't like it, doesn't make it wrong.

I commend you on your knowledge of this phone and your ability to hack it. The problem comes from the kid who knows just enough to get into trouble, and bricks his phone.

Not trying to start a pi$$ing war, just stating there's always another side to the story.

and while you have a point, why close off the only method "that kid" had to restore the phone back to stock and start over (.sbf)? do you have any idea how much money that .sbf file saved motorola in having to replace phones?
i mean, maybe more people took risks with the phone because they knew they had the .sbf to fall back on, but it's not like motorola told us the .sbf wouldnt work anymore. a lot of people just had to find that out the hard way. any idea how much money that little change in the bootloader is gonna cost them?

i wanna believe the change in the bootloader coincidentally made the 2.1 .sbf screw everything up, but i'm having a bit of a difficult time pulling the wool over my own eyes. i work for vzw, and i defend moto and vzw where i think defense is due, but i just cant bring myself to do it anymore. i know a lot of people get paid a lot of money to make these decisions, and i am more than curious to know the logic.

 

[anaphora68]

The more and more I hear about this, the more I think Moto decided to screw over the Droid X hacking community, intentionally.

Once I'm eligible for an upgrade, I'm getting an HTC phone that is officially supported for Cyanogen. I'm tired of this crap.

I can understand Moto's logic from a business end, but we pay a TON of money for the phones and the service. As such, if we want to void the warranty, we should be allowed to, and we should be allowed to put whatever software we please on the phone.

If anyone has an in with Google, or, heaven forbid, someone from Google sees this, maybe it's time you started a real partnership with the carriers, and got a dev phone, a REAL dev phone on all major carriers.

Moto should be kicked out of the open handset alliance for what they just did. It's wrong.

 

[Piiman]

Your entitled to an opinion, but it's apparent you're not a business person having to pay support people for problems caused by risky behavior. Just because something that used to work, doesn't work with the OTA version, doesn't make it intentional.

... and just because you don't like it, doesn't make it wrong.

I commend you on your knowledge of this phone and your ability to hack it. The problem comes from the kid who knows just enough to get into trouble, and bricks his phone.

Not trying to start a pi$$ing war, just stating there's always another side to the story.

The problem's when Moto who knows full well (look at D1)these and all phones get hacked decided they would start a pissing war with the mod community.
There was no reason to change those keys NONE and it was done less than 5 days before release and they did it without a peep. Every other manufacturer either supplies an sbf or a method to restore your phone Moto does not. Why? (Apparently they didn't even tell VZW as some have had reps flash the 2.1 sbf to try and fix the phones,oops!)

On top of that a little communication would have prevented all these bricked phones. They have no one to blame except themselves for returned phones and rightfully so IMO. I mean what is the business reason to remove the ability for that kid, and everyone else, to fix his phone? I can't think of one can you?

 

[audioxtc85]

Everyone needs to take a step back, go outside and get some fresh air! Lmao! It has only been like 34 hours since the new update has surfaced. I am content with my droid x with 2.1 rooted, using barnacle wifi tether, no roms or customs themes as of right now, launcherpro with a few widgets here and there, and switching between different wallpapers i get from flikie. Plus, I use SNesoid for gaming that keeps me busy until someone comes out with a one-click root method for the X on froyo. Be that as it may, I am coming from the original BB Storm so..... ENOUGH SAID! LOL

 

[SFWB]

Moto should be kicked out of the open handset alliance for what they just did. It's wrong.

I can't say I disagree with that.

 

[Gareee]

I hear a lot of dissing towards Moto... but I really wonder how much of this is actually Verizon's fault? They obviously want them to put vz navigator on in the system update, so it was uninstallable by regular users.

Verizon is also the ones who made contracts for advertising with companies like Blockbuster, and thats wwhy it is also bloat in ther eunremovable without root.

I'm willing to bet that much of these issues lay at theri door, not motos. There was a pos a few weeks ago that a RC candidte version was rejected by verizon, and moto had to do more work as a result.

Verizon probably asked them to lock the phone, so their ad partners wouldn't be upset.

And I really think the "flavor of the month" phone release also all lay at Verizon's door as well, because they are the ones advertising the "next big thing" every two weeks.

 

[tom108]

while it is disappointing what has happened. remember businesses are in the business of making money and much of that money comes from other big business contracts. That is why i always take advantage of root and leaks when they are available. i know from the past with other phones and other platforms the OTA updates can not always be trusted. i would never apply an OTA until it has been documented on the forums to be safe. I am sure MOTO couldn't care less whether people root & mod their phones or not. But the paycheck from Verizon sure makes them change their mind quick. Big red will always be the bad guy since they have the final say so before a release is put out.

 

[anaphora68]

I honestly don't care whose decision it was to lock the bootloader, or re-key the OTA.

But, I don't think it was Verizon. HTC ships their phones with the bootloaders unlockable, and the Fascinate is unlocked as well. So, Verizon dictating that everything be locked does not sit well with me.

All Verizon cares about is their bloat being on the phone. You don't have to use it, they just want it pre-packaged.

If I didn't like the screen on the Droid X so much, I would have switched back to my original Droid already.

 

[tom108]

the droidX was never intended to be a development device like the original droid. that is why the bootloader was locked. sad? yes. but that is the reality of it. for every 1 of us that wants to use this device to its full potential their are 20 people that don't even know what root/roms/bootloaders are and don't care. that is where the money is made. while the root community is large, we are very tiny in the grand scheme of things. so you my ask why bother with locking the bootloader then. the answer is very simple. Because the powers that be can.

many of us bought the X without thinking the development would even make it this far. I am sure in time more progress will be made. Until then DON'T INSTALL OTAs.

 

[anaphora68]

I realize the intent was never to use it as a dev phone, but no one needed to take the steps that were taken by Moto this week.

The Fascinate isn't meant as a dev phone, but the bootloader is unlocked. Same with every HTC phone.

I realize it's a business decision made by Moto, and they can do what they want vis-a-vis their hardware, but it's not necessary. That's all I'm driving at. Moto is intentionally putting hurdles up, and making it easy even for Joe-user to brick their phone (if VZW doesn't even have an SBF, that is not good).

If this is the trend with smartphones, I'm going to just dump it, get a dumb-phone, and get a tablet and use that for "smartphone" like features.

 

[nitsuj17]

The X was my first Android phone and while I was aware of overclocking and custom roms and root and that it was locked down, coming from years of BBs it looked like a revelation.

Now that I'm obsessed with root and the latest and greatest on the phone, I agree that this will be my last Motorolla phone unless they change their stance. I still am looking forward to bootloader unlock and everything, in fact I check for status updates all the time.

I actually picked up an Incredible to play around with as a backup phone now that I'm into Android so much. After I play around with it this weekend it may end up being my daily driver until Obsidian and overclocking and the like are available to us on the X.

 

[sund0wn]

I hear a lot of dissing towards Moto... but I really wonder how much of this is actually Verizon's fault? They obviously want them to put vz navigator on in the system update, so it was uninstallable by regular users.

Verizon is also the ones who made contracts for advertising with companies like Blockbuster, and thats wwhy it is also bloat in ther eunremovable without root.

I'm willing to bet that much of these issues lay at theri door, not motos. There was a pos a few weeks ago that a RC candidte version was rejected by verizon, and moto had to do more work as a result.

Verizon probably asked them to lock the phone, so their ad partners wouldn't be upset.

And I really think the "flavor of the month" phone release also all lay at Verizon's door as well, because they are the ones advertising the "next big thing" every two weeks.

my retort: "Milestone"

yes, the bloatware is verizon. do i agree with bloatware from a user standpoint? no. does it generate more revenue than it loses? yup. that's why it's there. pure and simple. is the locked hardware verizon's decision? nope.

 

[Pointguard1122]

The problem is this is a BAD combination and the blame MUST be shared. Imagine Dell loading a laptop with bloatware, telling you you cannot remove it, and them bricking your laptop when you update software. I am pretty sure Dell would be in front of congress. Just because the blame is shared doesn't make this any different. People need to stop looking at rooting as hacking. It is not. It is access to the C drive. A smartphone is a computer. You own it. Verizon and Moto are in the wrong. Plain and simple.

 

[cbaty08]

The problem is this is a BAD combination and the blame MUST be shared. Imagine Dell loading a laptop with bloatware, telling you you cannot remove it, and them bricking your laptop when you update software. I am pretty sure Dell would be in front of congress. Just because the blame is shared doesn't make this any different. People need to stop looking at rooting as hacking. It is not. It is access to the C drive. A smartphone is a computer. You own it. Verizon and Moto are in the wrong. Plain and simple.

You hit the nail on the head... I couldn't agree any more!

 

[Justintoxicated]

The problem is this is a BAD combination and the blame MUST be shared. Imagine Dell loading a laptop with bloatware, telling you you cannot remove it, and them bricking your laptop when you update software. I am pretty sure Dell would be in front of congress. Just because the blame is shared doesn't make this any different. People need to stop looking at rooting as hacking. It is not. It is access to the C drive. A smartphone is a computer. You own it. Verizon and Moto are in the wrong. Plain and simple.

I agree, it's like having a locked down version of windows or linus where you can not remove advertisements or bloat. Then again, verizon has ALWAYS locked down phones much more so than other providers so it's sad to see they are not done with the trend, even with android. Your starting to make me want to return the X for the fascinate. I still have time! But I don't really want the Fascinate, I want the noise cancellation from the droid-x and exceptional call / build quality. I'm torn between returning it or not.

 

[sund0wn]

The problem is this is a BAD combination and the blame MUST be shared. Imagine Dell loading a laptop with bloatware, telling you you cannot remove it, and them bricking your laptop when you update software. I am pretty sure Dell would be in front of congress. Just because the blame is shared doesn't make this any different. People need to stop looking at rooting as hacking. It is not. It is access to the C drive. A smartphone is a computer. You own it. Verizon and Moto are in the wrong. Plain and simple.

i agree. but to play devil's advocate, when you buy a new Dell, and you start monkeying around with the registry and all of a sudden your computer wont boot, you dont take it back to dell and expect them to give you a new one. (of course, you can just reload the software, so i guess i'm not very good at this game, ) computer companies only have to warranty hardware. verizon/moto end up having to replace phones for every little software issue. they are trying to lower the amount of phones they have to replace.

remember, i'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. i dont agree with the way they are going about it. i dont agree with encrypted bootloaders. i dont agree with bloatware. (remember how long windows users were forced to have IE installed. finally, we are allowed to delete it.)

i think they should unlock bootloaders, but i also think they should make a way to make it easy for a verizon rep to know whether or not software has been altered, and not to have to replace the phones for issues caused by such. but then again, if they made it easy to sbf, it wouldnt ever be an issue. man, the more i think about it, they are so ass-backwards its almost unbelievable.

 

[mtneer25911]

This is very annoying, however when I bought my X I knew what i was getting into. However, I felt then and still feel that the bootloader will eventually be unlocked. But it is actions like this from Motorola that has me ready to jump ship to HTC as soon as they release a 4.3" device on Verizon.

 

[Pointguard1122]

I don't buy the argument that they are trying to limit returns. If this were the case the first thing they would do is release the sbf file to the community. Some companies are learning that communities like this are free tech support. Dell flew me to Roundrock earlier this year to discuss this very subject. I think Moto could learn a thing or two from Dell.

 

[sund0wn]

I don't buy the argument that they are trying to limit returns. If this were the case the first thing they would do is release the sbf file to the community. Some companies are learning that communities like this are free tech support. Dell flew me to Roundrock earlier this year to discuss this very subject. I think Moto could learn a thing or two from Dell.

i just think it's possible that they're trying to deter people from customizing in the first place.

if not to limit returns, then why? what you have been saying makes perfect sense. but, if not to limit returns, then why? i mean, i dont think they're doing it just to piss people off. that just makes no sense.

what i really want to know is why they are doing what they're doing. what do they have to gain by encrypting the bootloader, and moreso, what do they have to gain by preventing the .sbf back to 2.1 (unless that part was unintentional, which i have a hard time believing).

 

[northernmoris]

Come on guys, who lives in illinois and can go stop by headquarters. Preferably a smart level headed person with common sense.