Feedback on Tethering - merged from PSA threads

[argedion]

In this post

I realize that I'm being kinda picky, in reality I know that this isn't a huge deal, but I don't like being called a criminal. This is a great site, mostly because both the members and the staff are friendly and helpful. The owner(s) can run the site however they choose and make whatever rules they deem fit(I'm a big private property rights fan, even if it does affect me negatively) but I also believe that a business should appreciate and respect its customers. We are the customers, and calling me and all the other users of the feature that shall not be named criminals is disrespectful.

I was not calling anyone a criminal. I do apologize if that is how my post came of to you. My biggest point about the decision of the owners were the legal ramifications that could be taken.

Someone Owns a Home. I go in to their home and kill someone. The owner does nothing but turns his head. The owner will be just as guilty of the act as I am. Which makes him an accessory to a Crime. Which is why I stated I feel like this is part of the reason he wants to no allow that kind of conversation on his site.

I also stated that I have never personally used tethering. Legally or illegally. I have never had a need to. That is not to say that when placed in a position of needing to that I would not legally or other wise.

However nothing in my OP pointed to any group or users and directly called them criminals with exception to Corporations and Government. If you are in one of those two groups its just like a black man being called a criminal. Not all of them are but they still get the tag because of the one's who do.

 

[Frisco]

Friends, the stated policy in the OP has generated some discussion, but it may better serve the EVO community here if we lock the thread and just move on.

There's more talk on the tethering/carrier issues going on in the Android Lounge and in the various carrier forums. You can even start a new thread there if you want to (I was about to move this to AL, but thought I'd leave it here).

This ATR section is for root info and talk wrt the EVO 4G. Sorry if by putting in this announcement about wireless tethering it has sort of distracted from EVO specific stuff.

Android Lounge - Android Forums

Android Carriers - Android Forums

 

[dautley]

What about all of the ROM developers on AF who's ROM's include the ability to tether in this way. Are these files going to be pulled and Developers accounts suspended or does this only apply to the users of these ROM's who may post questions and answers about it in most phones all things root sections?

Not trying to be a trouble maker but clarification of this would be nice.

 

[mikepic]

I respectfully understand but this makes me sad.

 

[Biotic]

No.
We are able to keep the ability to do the "hotspot" however we can no longer talk about it or help anyone if they have problems with it. It is up to the user to solve their problems.

 

[marc12868]

PSA About Tethering Discussion here at Android Forums:

It looks like AF's Site Owner and Admin have decided to take a stance on tethering without a plan. We know that we have talked about it, promoted it, and helped people with issues with tethering. However, now we have a new policy in place. We know that some members may not agree with the policy but as a member of AF we have all agreed to follow the Site Rules/Guidelines.



Threads about wireless tethering (sometimes but not always cable/USB tethering) should not include advice which seeks to defeat your carrier/user Terms of Service. Please see your carrier's TOS statement about wireless tethering in our Carriers forums Terms of Service stickies:

http://androidforums.com/virgin-mobile/455616-virgin-mobiles-official-tethering-policy.html

I was just wondering... Then doesn't that technically mean that CM7 and any rom that has wifi/usb tethering are against forum rules? Or is it just discussing it?

 

[ziggy46]

well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.

 

[marc12868]

well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.

I know... But since VM doesn't support it (even though they will never know) we technically can't... Although it says wirelessly in the TOS I think, and nothing about usb... so... I don't even use it as I have no use for it, but I do find it kind of stupid that a other companies make you pay extra to use your phones capabilities and use your data that you already pay for...

 

[agentc13]

I was just wondering... Then doesn't that technically mean that CM7 and any rom that has wifi/usb tethering are against forum rules? Or is it just discussing it?

No, ROMs/mods are fine as long as that isn't their sole (or main) purpose.

Even a discussion about tethering is alright in the intellectual sense (i.e. "I think it is ok", or "I think it is bad") as long as they are respectful. When people get disrespectful/mean about this stuff it will be taken care of by the MODs.

How-to's and discussions where the intent is to circumvent ToS is the main issue. So please avoid those discussions, and link to this if you see someone asking.

 

[agentc13]

well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.

This is from Rob the site owner, not from Phases.

You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.

We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.

 

[marc12868]

This is from Rob the site owner, not from Phases.

You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.

We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.

I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly...

for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network

so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?

 

[agentc13]

I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly... so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?

From the link in the PSA:

Virgin Mobile's official tethering policy

According to the Virgin Mobile's Terms of Service (ToS) available at http://www.virginmobileusa.com/legal/terms-of-service-no-annual-contract

Virgin Mobile's official policy about tethering is

Specific Terms and Restrictions regarding Data Services
If your plan includes data services, such services are provided solely for purposes of web browsing, messaging, and similar activities. You are responsible for all data activity from and to your mobile phone or device regardless of who initiates the activity. You may not use the data service:... (4) for an activity that connects any device to personal computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage)

Currently Virgin Mobile does not offer any plans that allow tethering. If you need to use your Virgin Mobile service for mobile internet please sign up for a Broadband2Go plan and purchase the appropriate device at the following link Broadband2Go - 3G Mobile Broadband Service | Virgin Mobile

I am not sure where the line is, I will bring it up and let you know. I do see where you have that question since it specifies "wireless".

EDIT: Some folks who know things better than myself will be popping by to help clarify things for you, be patient.

 

[Yeahha]

I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly...

for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network

so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?

I believe the part of the the ToS that you are quoting is not referring to how you are sharing the data but instead that it is wireless data between the phone and the carrier. The ToS reads

You may not use the data service:... (4) for an activity that connects any device to personal computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage)

There is no specification that the connection between the phone and the device it is connected to must be a wireless connection. It states they can not be connected at all to specifically tether regardless of the method used.

 

[ziggy46]

This is from Rob the site owner, not from Phases.

You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.

We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.

oh i thought phases owned the site... and i completely understand why they are doing it. i was just stating what i believed.

 

[marc12868]

I believe the part of the the ToS that you are quoting is not referring to how you are sharing the data but instead that it is wireless data between the phone and the carrier. The ToS reads There is no specification that the connection between the phone and the device it is connected to must be a wireless connection. It states they can not be connected at all to specifically tether regardless of the method used.

Oh... they really should make their ToS better where it doesn't confuse people like that... I don't really care just wondering...

 

[tlopez1973]

well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.

i agree with you (i pay for service ill use as i please)

 

[redsox985]

Are we safe to divert those interested over to XDA, where these discussions aren't against the Forum Rules?

 

[agentc13]

Also, I posted this as a friendly FYI. Just wanted to inform everyone as I have noticed stuff about it here and there.

I can help answer questions about this (If I have them) :what:, but I am not enforcing this (that's for those nice red MODs) or trying to shove rules down anyone's throat. Just didn't want people blindsided about it.

 

[hotalings]

i agree with you (i pay for service ill use as i please)

Agreed

 

[Android1993]

If people feel so obligated or feel the need to talk about tethering so bad as to dispute the rules the site owner has put in place to keep his site from having legal issues, just start a forum dedicated to the Triumph and run it as you please. There's no need to complain and argue the fact, just deal with it.

 

[hotalings]

If people feel so obligated or feel the need to talk about tethering so bad as to dispute the rules the site owner has put in place to keep his site from having legal issues, just start a forum dedicated to the Triumph and run it as you please. There's no need to complain and argue the fact, just deal with it.

Relax

 

[soundping]

Just ToS it out.

 

[Austrie]

You guys pay for service/data for your phone, not for internet for your computer; that's what high-speed(or normal speed) internet is for. Your mobile service and data is for your mobile phone, not meant for your laptops; and you wonder why VM is going to start throttling (people to cheap to buy real internet) their data service after 2GB in the near future, because normal users don't tether and most of the time don't go past 2GB. Normal heavy usage for a whole month isn't supposed to go past 2GB, unless downloading a big game package(GTA3, Gameloft, etc) which is recommend to be downloaded over WiFi, and if downloaded over 3G, should be limited meaning only download a certain amount of bigger-size games a number of times a month. You guys have to think of other people, when you tether as your main source of internet your slowing down the data speeds for everyone. I remember when I had Intercept, and I could promise you that the internet speeds was faster back then, even though the Triumph and Optimus V are EvDo A and can take more data than the Intercept. When new customers come in because of the new phones and the data speeds drop a little, that's normal, but the big data speed drop is because of everyone tethering compared to when the best phone VM had was a Intercept. Rooting is risking your device's safety and reliability, and VM don't want you to do it because when you return a device to them and it's because of rooting they are normally losing money, and that is not fair; but tethering is a whole bigger case/problem, your completely abusing there niceness of giving us unlimited data, and that's why most companies charge higher for unlimited data while still throttling you, plus they are more active when looking for people who throttle.

 

[MurugaDas]

I think most people who tether use there ph

 

[marc12868]

You guys pay for service/data for your phone, not for internet for your computer; that's what high-speed(or normal speed) internet is for. Your mobile service and data is for your mobile phone, not meant for your laptops; and you wonder why VM is going to start throttling (people to cheap to buy real internet) their data service after 2GB in the near future, because normal users don't tether and most of the time don't go past 2GB. Normal heavy usage for a whole month isn't supposed to go past 2GB, unless downloading a big game package(GTA3, Gameloft, etc) which is recommend to be downloaded over WiFi, and if downloaded over 3G, should be limited meaning only download a certain amount of bigger-size games a number of times a month. You guys have to think of other people, when you tether as your main source of internet your slowing down the data speeds for everyone. I remember when I had Intercept, and I could promise you that the internet speeds was faster back then, even though the Triumph and Optimus V are EvDo A and can take more data than the Intercept. When new customers come in because of the new phones and the data speeds drop a little, that's normal, but the big data speed drop is because of everyone tethering compared to when the best phone VM had was a Intercept. Rooting is risking your device's safety and reliability, and VM don't want you to do it because when you return a device to them and it's because of rooting they are normally losing money, and that is not fair; but tethering is a whole bigger case/problem, your completely abusing there niceness of giving us unlimited data, and that's why most companies charge higher for unlimited data while still throttling you, plus they are more active when looking for people who throttle.

True... Maybe when they start throttling my speeds will be decent... I don't tether and have no need to and even in my area my speeds are slow so it wouldn't even matter... I can understand all of what your saying and haven't even thought about all that... Hmm thanks for that.

Edit: Also back when I had the Rumor Touch and that was their best phone my speeds still sucked :/