Help HTC...You can go to hell...

[eieio]

So I was correct and the GPU cap is for battery. My guess that the weak wifi reception is for this same reason is probably also correct. Seems the cost of 4g is greater than the actual gains.

"Beer", it's what's for dinner.

Makes no sense when wifi drains less battery than the 3g or 4g signal would. Worse case scenario the drain would be the same.. Also having good wifi would keep users off the network

 

[MrX8503]

its an inferior device to YOU. and you are the only one here beating a dead horse. HTC most likely won't do anything about it and all the whining in the world from you isn't gonna change that so why are you still holding on to such an inferior device? Move on to the droid x, but oh wait, it has problem with auto focusing when taking a pic, so its probably inferior when it COULD be performing at its max potential. Move on to the iphone, oh wait, it still can't walk and chew gum at the same time and facetime is only through wifi, so thats probably inferior since the Evo can do video chat through 3g/4g. I think you should go back to a regular flip phone. It'll make calls and thur performing what its designed to do, make calls...

We know about motorola auto focus
We know the iPhone's video chat is wifi only (BTW, probably cause of ATT)
We know a flip phone can make calls

We DIDN'T know about the EVO 30fps cap. Its called feeling cheated after you bought something.

As I stated I don't want a perfect phone, but just in case you ignored it the first time, I'll re quote it here.

"It was meant to do 60fps like all the other smartphones out there, but its not. I don't want a perfect phone, I already accepted build quality issues. What I won't accept is a gimped snapdragon.

If I paid good money for a device, I should have the right to expect some level of quality. I'm not asking for perfect quality here."

 

[rushmore]

What about the Incredible same thing? Maybe this is why the Incredible seemed faster than EVO?

The difference is the 4g- a power hog that Inc does not have. Perhaps the bigger display with lcd is also a factor.


"Beer", it's what's for dinner.

 

[MrX8503]

The difference is the 4g- a power hog that Inc does not have. Perhaps the bigger display with lcd is also a factor.


"Beer", it's what's for dinner.

This sounds like a good theory. I don't know I think overall in the end it could be because of a battery issue. If that's the case I'm not sure why HTC just didn't give us a choice.

 

[rushmore]

So I was correct and the GPU cap is for battery. My guess that the weak wifi reception is for this same reason is probably also correct. Seems the c

Makes no sense when wifi drains less battery than the 3g or 4g signal would. Worse case scenario the drain would be the same.. Also having good wifi would keep users off the network

I agree, but Nokia lowered the power on the N900 wifi to help out with power. You have to go into settings to bump the m watts up.

"Beer", it's what's for dinner.

 

[mrancier]

This sounds like a good theory. I don't know I think overall in the end it could be because of a battery issue. If that's the case I'm not sure why HTC just didn't give us a choice.

A theory would be because too many would release the cap(or their techie friend would tell them to) and later on realize that their battery would last a lot less. Not knowing exactly what they did, they would inevitably turn to HTC to repair their faulty EVO 4G. Unfortunately, this is how most not-tech-savvy consumers would go about dealing with this business.

Still I think it would be nice to have a choice.

 

[hammondfra]

this thread makes me LOL...

 

[ballr4lyf]

It seems that the device is "locked in" at 30 frames per second both in 2D (Canvas) and 3D (openGL) modes, while anecdotally, a phone like the Hero hits 54fps on average and has "smoother scrolling" in the menus. - Engadget

HAHAHAHA!!!! That's rich... really almost spewed milk out of my nostrils... And I'm not even drinking milk!!! Have you ever owned a hero?

 

[RiverOfIce]

Uh, I think you're confused. From reading your post I can tell you don't know anything about animation or video.

Ok please tell us how the way your computer renders video games is any different then the way your phone does. Come on, we are all waiting.

 

[MrX8503]

HAHAHAHA!!!! That's rich... really almost spewed milk out of my nostrils... And I'm not even drinking milk!!! Have you ever owned a hero?

As crazy as it may sound, but when the Hero isn't limited by its inferior processor it does seem to be pushing more frames. I looked at some vids and its home screen sense scroll seems smoother. The EVO is quick, but not smooth. Maybe its in my head and I need both the Hero and EVO side by side.

Ok please tell us how the way your computer renders video games is any different then the way your phone does. Come on, we are all waiting.

What I'm telling you is that you are confused on the differences between lag and blur.

Lag happens when there aren't enough transitions from point A to point B. There isn't enough "in between" or smooth "tweening" going on.

So how is this fixed? There are two ways. You add motion blur or you add more transitions or "frames" in between point A and B.

Motion blur helps when there are less frames to work with as it tricks your eye, a lot of movies do this. I also use motion blur in After Effects as well when I'm doing animations to help with smoothness.

When each frame is razor sharp, the eye can more easily see those separate frames, so it seems stuttery even though the footage could be at 60fps. To compensate you can either add in a TON more frames, or just add motion blur.

So lag or stutter happens in two situations:

-Low FPS
-Frames too sharp, may need a little bit of motion blur

Aside from that, its up to the CPU to spit out those frames onto your screen, if its not fast enough, it'll drop frames, which will make the lag even worse.

 

[twospirits]

I don't think you'll ever get it. The Hero was made for what it was meant to do, the EVO was released and isn't doing what it was meant to do.

Hero owners knew what they were buying, Evo owners didn't. It seems like you're happy with your EVO and that's fine.

What does this have to do with anything? We're talking about 30fps cap issue and a fix if its being worked on at all, not who uses the phones. Get over yourself.

I'll address each part on its own.

part 1: The EVO was also made for what it was meant to be. People bought the Hero unbeknown of the problems or issues the device has or were brought to light later on. The same with the EVO.

part 2: It is being sold as a 4G device with two camera, and a HDMI output among other things, no where did I read anything that it was suppose to have 60 fps. No where. Therefore that first statement does not have any ground.

Part 3: Don't tell members to get over themselves cause it will be returned as well. If we are talking about the implications of only having the device set at 30 fps as oppose to 60 then fine lets continue to discuss, but creating a thread saying "HTC you can go to hell" is surely not going to sway HTC (if they even read these forums, much less this thread) into resetting it from 30 to 60 fps.

Speaking of which, is there an agenda in all of this. You apparently already set yourself into thinking that no fix is forthcoming and that 30 fps isn't good enough for you, so why bother. Return it and go for something else you feel is better. Complain to the ones that would or could make a difference, HTC. Discussing the issue is one thing and making the members aware of such shortcomings (in your view) is fine, but when it goes overboard, then its does no one any good.

its my understanding that the fps was downgraded to 30 simply to save battery life (which is already being taxed). I'm sure that if HTC gave us the 60 fps, the battery would die much faster, and that would bring up another set of complaints. Its a never ending cycle.

TS out

 

[MrX8503]

I'll address each part on its own.

part 1: The EVO was also made for what it was meant to be. People bought the Hero unbeknown of the problems or issues the device has or were brought to light later on. The same with the EVO.

I've never owned a Hero, so I don't know the problems that involve the hero, so I can't comment on that. If I did own one and it didn't perform like it was stated, I too would be upset.

part 2: It is being sold as a 4G device with two camera, and a HDMI output among other things, no where did I read anything that it was suppose to have 60 fps. No where. Therefore that first statement does not have any ground.

You are right in that it didn't state specifically that it runs at 60fps, but 60fps is native of Android. All other Android phones don't have this limitation, I think it was safe to assume that the king of Android phones didn't either. Google stated themselves that this is what they shoot for.

Part 3: Don't tell members to get over themselves cause it will be returned as well. If we are talking about the implications of only having the device set at 30 fps as oppose to 60 then fine lets continue to discuss, but creating a thread saying "HTC you can go to hell" is surely not going to sway HTC (if they even read these forums, much less this thread) into resetting it from 30 to 60 fps.

I can tell members to get over themselves if their comments are:

"so wtf is the point? its a phone for soccer moms and apple fanboys."

That comment doesn't contribute to the thread, it just bashes a demographic. How is it fair that its ok for members to bad mouth other products besides Android?

About the title of the thread, I do agree its a bit harsh.

Speaking of which, is there an agenda in all of this. You apparently already set yourself into thinking that no fix is forthcoming and that 30 fps isn't good enough for you, so why bother. Return it and go for something else you feel is better. Complain to the ones that would or could make a difference, HTC. Discussing the issue is one thing and making the members aware of such shortcomings (in your view) is fine, but when it goes overboard, then its does no one any good.

Just as there are raves there are rants. I wanted to discuss my displeasure, but at the same time inform those who don't know about the lag issues and the 30fps. If I'm shopping around for a phone, I would appreciate someone informing me both the good and bad of the phone, not sugar coating everything just because people think Android is the best thing ever.

Smartphones are expensive, I think I have the right to be upset. Nothing burns worse than being locked into a 2yr contract costing $2k to find out the phone that was supposed to do, but didn't.

I'm fine with people thinking the 30fps is not a big issue, but those who refuse to see that the phone has lagging issues are just ignoring video proof. I'm not gonna try to convince people of that because the videos are there.

Simply, phones are only as good as the consumer wants them to be. So what I'll do is vote with my wallet, I don't plan on purchasing another HTC device again, until HTC can get their act together.

 

[TheTrueSpin]

Tha'ts it, I'm going back to Tmobile and wait for the GS next month!

Thanks for posting this.

Why do you need 60fps so badly?

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I'm fine with people thinking the 30fps is not a big issue, but those who refuse to see that the phone has lagging issues are just ignoring video proof. I'm not gonna try to convince people of that because the videos are there.

It has been stated earlier in this thread that the lag (transitions, scrolling, etc) will be resolved in Froyo later this year. Yet you keep going on about the 30FPS issue, which effects video play back, games and other animations, not the lag.

Am I understanding that correctly? Can anybody else confirm that Froyo will fix the lag? If so, then the 30FPS is a non-issue for me.

 

[berardi1111]

Seriously if Halo (xbox 360) is capped at 30 fps how could you possibly need higher fps on the Evo? I really can't understand that one.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Lag happens when there aren't enough transitions from point A to point B. There isn't enough "in between" or smooth "tweening" going on.

Yes, finally. At 30 fps there will be no noticeable lag when opening and closing menus. Lag starts at about 15 frame per second and is most elimated at 24 frames per second. That does not mean at 60fps does not look better, it just means you can not have notice lag at 30fps.

Or most video games for xbox, pc, and ps3 would have noticeable lag.

It is not the 30fps cap that causes the menu to lag, it is the rendering of the image that causes the lag.

If the menu only displays 10 frames per second, it would seem like lag, but if the menu displays at 30fps it is blur.

Noticable video lag starts at 15-20 frames per second not 30. 30 fps will seem really smooth as gears of war 3 does.

 

[bernechad]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the OP needs 60fps for?

HDMI out, it's a gimmick. If somebody seriously thought they were going to replace their 10MP point/shoot cam and their HD camcorder and their psp/ds/360/ps3 with a phone, A PHONE, then they have bigger issues than thinking HTC lied to them.

 

[MrX8503]

Yes, finally. At 30 fps there will be no noticeable lag when opening and closing menus. Lag starts at about 15 frame per second and is most elimated at 24 frames per second. That does not mean at 60fps does not look better, it just means you can not have notice lag at 30fps.

Or most video games for xbox, pc, and ps3 would have noticeable lag.

It is not the 30fps cap that causes the menu to lag, it is the rendering of the image that causes the lag.

If the menu only displays 10 frames per second, it would seem like lag, but if the menu displays at 30fps it is blur.

Noticable video lag starts at 15-20 frames per second not 30. 30 fps will seem really smooth as gears of war 3 does.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the OP needs 60fps for?

HDMI out, it's a gimmick. If somebody seriously thought they were going to replace their 10MP point/shoot cam and their HD camcorder and their psp/ds/360/ps3 with a phone, A PHONE, then they have bigger issues than thinking HTC lied to them.

Seriously if Halo (xbox 360) is capped at 30 fps how could you possibly need higher fps on the Evo? I really can't understand that one.

Video games and film FPS has nothing to do with our touch lag. The information is out there and read up on the differences between 30fps in film, video games, pc games, and animation vs live footage. Or you could go over to XDA and they'll explain it to you, they'll laugh at you right out the door.

Also with a 30fps cap, it doesn't mean that the EVO is consistently running at 30fps. The cap itself doesn't give it any cushion room, so its actually running at 28, 27, 26, etc FPS.

I've already repeated it multiple times in this thread so I'm not gonna go through the hassle of explaining everything again. If you like your EVO then thats fine. I'm just going by what I researched and the video proof that there is unnecessary lag involved only on the EVO. The Nexus 1, Droid Incredible, doesn't seem to be exhibiting the same lag and they all have a snapdragon.

I myself will be looking at the samsung galaxy s, moto droid x, or the iPhone 4 as alternatives.

It has been stated earlier in this thread that the lag (transitions, scrolling, etc) will be resolved in Froyo later this year. Yet you keep going on about the 30FPS issue, which effects video play back, games and other animations, not the lag.

Am I understanding that correctly? Can anybody else confirm that Froyo will fix the lag? If so, then the 30FPS is a non-issue for me.

Froyo has not been confirmed to fix this issue. An early build of Froyo on the EVO did not fix the issue, so no one knows for sure if this is something that can be fixed by Google.

My theory is that this lag issue is from HTC, not from Google, as they are all running the same Android 2.1 OS. It is speculated that the FPS issue comes from the HDMI port itself.

 

[misterzeno]

MrX8503...... I just have one question. When are you getting a different phone so you can go to another forum to complain? This thread is LOL and the whole FPS on a dam phone is getting beyond dumb, next thing you know there will be bitching about an sli gpu for the phone. Christ man all you have been doing is complaining I have never seen someone so displeased with a device but refuse to turn it. Are you into S&M or something. Do you like Mudkips? I mean I just dont know man. Are you waiting on the iphone4 and just kicking up dust here in the meantime? I mean what is it, you are preaching the FPS gospel but most people dont care. Most people I know return a product they dont like, but you seem to be the opposite.

 

[MrX8503]

MrX8503...... I just have one question. When are you getting a different phone so you can go to another forum to complain? This thread is LOL and the whole FPS on a dam phone is getting beyond dumb, next thing you know there will be bitching about an sli gpu for the phone. Christ man all you have been doing is complaining I have never seen someone so displeased with a device but refuse to turn it. Are you into S&M or something. Do you like Mudkips? I mean I just dont know man. Are you waiting on the iphone4 and just kicking up dust here in the meantime? I mean what is it, you are preaching the FPS gospel but most people dont care. Most people I know return a product they dont like, but you seem to be the opposite.

Err, I'm in the process of returning the EVO now, so I'm not sure what you're referring to about me keeping the device.

This forum is to inform people about the problem that is all. What I won't argue about is whether or not this issue exists. It does exist and its in the videos and statements from HTC has been released.

Whether that bothers you is another subject. I'm here to inform people and maybe that would be enough to have HTC fix their ways. Your acceptance of flaws and criticism does not help anyone or push HTC for a fix.

If I paid $200 for this phone, I have every right to be upset with crippling software. If you don't care or other posters don't care, then don't bother posting in this thread. This thread is for people who would like to know more about the issue.

By you replying in this thread saying you don't care, you're just expressing and trying to justify flaws in a device that you paid good money for.

 

[eieio]

For probably 80% or more of the EVO users it will not be considered a flaw or even be noticed..

It is a flaw for you and others who want to game on it, because it does not serve your intended purpose..

If they did cap it for battery life and the effect is minimal to the point of not being notice to most (average) users..

I think HTC made the right decision in IMHO

 

[MrX8503]

For probably 80% or more of the EVO users it will not be considered a flaw or even be noticed..

It is a flaw for you and others who want to game on it, because it does not serve your intended purpose..

A flaw is when there is a bug in the software
A flaw is when the build quality suffers because not enough testing is done

A flaw is NOT something that was intentionally PUT THERE. HTC didn't intentionally make your screen LCD lift up or have light leakage, but they did INTENTIONALLY cap your phone.

This is the difference.

Maybe it doesn't matter to most people, but its a slippery slope my friend. HTC getting away with one thing, they'll get away with more the next time.

Accept quality from your phone manufactures, not problems.

If they did cap it for battery life and the effect is minimal to the point of not being notice to most (average) users..

I think HTC made the right decision in IMHO

Funny, coming from an Android community you would think you would want the choice to run your phone as you please. Maybe an option to run low performance vs high performance.

 

[misterzeno]

Err, I'm in the process of returning the EVO now, so I'm not sure what you're referring to about me keeping the device.

This forum is to inform people about the problem that is all. What I won't argue about is whether or not this issue exists. It does exist and its in the videos and statements from HTC has been released.

Whether that bothers you is another subject. I'm here to inform people and maybe that would be enough to have HTC fix their ways. Your acceptance of flaws and criticism does not help anyone or push HTC for a fix.

If I paid $200 for this phone, I have every right to be upset with crippling software. If you don't care or other posters don't care, then don't bother posting in this thread. This thread is for people who would like to know more about the issue.

By you replying in this thread saying you don't care, you're just expressing and trying to justify flaws in a device that you paid good money for.

Actually I just wanted to know when your threads would cease. Most users dont notice and dont care about 30 FPS. I never thought I would see a time when FPS on phones would be compared. Yea you paid 200 and? Good luck with your next phone and its imperfections man.

 

[misterzeno]

A flaw is when there is a bug in the software
A flaw is when the build quality suffers because not enough testing is done

A flaw is NOT something that was intentionally PUT THERE. HTC didn't intentionally make your screen LCD lift up or have light leakage, but they did INTENTIONALLY cap your phone.

This is the difference.

Maybe it doesn't matter to most people, but its a slippery slope my friend. HTC getting away with one thing, they'll get away with more the next time.

Accept quality from your phone manufactures, not problems.



Funny, coming from an Android community you would think you would want the choice to run your phone as you please. Maybe an option to run low performance vs high performance.

What do you consider the best phone out now?

 

[RiverOfIce]

Video games and film FPS has nothing to do with our touch lag. The information is out there and read up on the differences between 30fps in film, video games, pc games, and animation vs live footage. Or you could go over to XDA and they'll explain it to you, they'll laugh at you right out the door.

lol, you are the funniest person here. You are honestly saying that there is a difference between video game animation and "your animation", and there is clearly a difference between film live footage and "live footage".

You are getting laughed out of the door here.

All you can do is keep repeating your misconceptions and stating them as truth. Here is a little hint, there is not difference between they way the xbox and the evo renders graphics at 30fps. There is no difference between the way a film live footage and "you mythical live footage" is displayed. It seems you are here just to complain and troll.

You still have not explained how the htc evo renders graphics differently then a computer or xbox? We are not talking minimum, we are talking maximum.

At 30fps there will be no visible lag only blur. IF you go above 60 fps the image just stay sharper, with less blur.

In order to get visible lag, you need to get less then 20 fps.

In order to get user lag, you need to get less then 15 fps.

Which is well short of your cap that you are stating.