Smaller the subpixel size the shorter the life of the display for a given brightness. So these tiny HD displays will be pentile.
Wait, what? Wouldn't that mean iPhone 4/4S would have awful screen longevity?
Upvote
0
Smaller the subpixel size the shorter the life of the display for a given brightness. So these tiny HD displays will be pentile.
The possibilities are endless
Guys Guys have you ever seen or had Samsung S8000 Jet with supposed 301 ppi? The screen size is 3.1 inches and 480 by 800 pixels Amoled screen. Well I've had the phone and the second I turned the screen on I noticed the pentile screen. 4.65 inches is a lot bigger than 3.1, and even at 720P res I don't think that it's gonna hide that ugly pentile look.
Guys Guys have you ever seen or had Samsung S8000 Jet with supposed 301 ppi? The screen size is 3.1 inches and 480 by 800 pixels Amoled screen. Well I've had the phone and the second I turned the screen on I noticed the pentile screen. 4.65 inches is a lot bigger than 3.1, and even at 720P res I don't think that it's gonna hide that ugly pentile look.
In addition to the PenTile thing being a very subjective thing, Samsung have also changed their PenTile arrangement. In older screens the Red/Blue sub-pixels were 2:1 the size of the Green sub-pixels. In these new ones they appear to be 1:1 which will very much change the characteristics of the display.
Wait and see.
In addition to the PenTile thing being a very subjective thing, Samsung have also changed their PenTile arrangement. In older screens the Red/Blue sub-pixels were 2:1 the size of the Green sub-pixels. In these new ones they appear to be 1:1 which will very much change the characteristics of the display.
Wait and see.
Samsung have also changed their PenTile arrangement. In older screens the Red/Blue sub-pixels were 2:1 the size of the Green sub-pixels. In these new ones they appear to be 1:1 which will very much change the characteristics of the display.
Yeah, I bet it will. Does that mean they miscalculated the eye's sensitivity to green? I mean, wasn't that the whole purpose of RGBG?
Yeah, I bet it will. Does that mean they miscalculated the eye's sensitivity to green? I mean, wasn't that the whole purpose of RGBG?
The biggest issue comes with sharp contrast areas - because PenTile screens use sub-pixel-rendering, they encounter instances where due to the 2:1 sub-pixel ratios, a vertical black/white line will look fuzzy because the subpixels aren't all the same width along that line, and interpolation of colors to achieve the virtual resolution serves to exacerbate the issue. That means a 1:1 sub-pixel layout won't resolve blurry edges, but if I'm right it should be a lot better.
And the newer 1:1 are probably due to improvements in the actual subpixel brightness capability.
You may be right, but it seems they might as well have redesigned themselves back to straight RGB then.
Anyway, I'm glad the two of you with actual display tech background are here to explain the intent behind the designs.
There are two things to consider here. You create colors on a display like this by turn off/down certain sub-pixels. To create a solid black line, you turn off all the sub-pixels in an RGB stripe. In a PenTile display, however, you don't turn whole pixels off because the pixels don't have real physical coordinates.I'd think that doubling the green would make jaggies even worse, as the red and blue subpixels will be even further from each other, but I'm probably not understanding it right. We need new RGBG pictures!
I guess I was thinking of RGBW for power savings, and I was under the impression that RGBW gave a sharper looking display with typical text presentations.
There are two things to consider here. You create colors on a display like this by turn off/down certain sub-pixels. To create a solid black line, you turn off all the sub-pixels in an RGB stripe. In a PenTile display, however, you don't turn whole pixels off because the pixels don't have real physical coordinates.
Combined with the fact that, say, next to each other RGBG pixels still appear white (and not some super green white,) there will be instances where you end up making a black line by turning individual sub-pixels off. Where a hi-red, hi-green, low-blue color meets black, you will end up with something like (X means off/black) this:
XGRX
RGXX
XGRX
RGXX
Which results in a fuzzy edge.
If you then take a 2:1 ratio, it would look something like this:
XXGRRX
RRGXXX
XXGRRX
RRGXXX
Which makes the edge look even worse.
Of course there's a lot of 'magic' that goes into blending pixels together, but you get the basic idea.
To the first part of your post, yes. Take this image for example:Excellent examples, thx! I gather the 2:1 vertical lines would've been a lot smoother if they were aligned over a red/blue column.
Where does the subpixel rendering happen? I know w/ClearType the CPU/GPU is pre-calculating the subpixels as it writes RGB values to graphics buffers that get sent out to the monitor. Do PenTile panels take vanilla RGB signals and do their own rendering in hardware? Or is there some sort of assist on the CPU/GPU?
The green edges of the lighter color form a hard edge against the black of the icon, but imagine there are no active blue sub-pixels, you're left with a jagged red edge that appears blurry when viewed from a normal distance. Hell, even with them on, the blue sub-pixels appear to blend into the black anyway.
To the second part, as far as I'm aware, PenTile screens have some form of hardware processing that is interposed between the GPU and the display itself. I don't know any specifics though.
Pretty much you won't care about resolution or dot pitch on this class of screen. A percentage will, because a percentage has an inordinate sensitivity to that, but it's not 100% - that's an Apple myth.
Found the ars technica article where that came from. The author takes a dim view overall, estimating that a claimed 800x480 PenTile effectively carries the RGB color information of only about 653x392. Using the same method (multiplying by the sqrt of 2/3), the Galaxy Nexus' HD PenTile display is equivalent to an RGB resolution of 1045x588, which is better than both WVGA and qHD. He also noted some bizarre color artifacts.
I must be among the inordinately sensitive to this technology, as I can't look at a solid color or any sort of motion on these screens without seeing the effects of the PenTile. I guess it's not a deal breaker, but it is very noticeable and distracting for me. And I am a bit disappointed that I still see it in BruceWayne's video..assuming it will be a similar screen in the Nexus.
OK. Power savings with PenTile - no.
Consider two screens at 720p, same size. Put up a solid red image on both. The rgb one will have 1/3 of its subpixels lit, the PenTile one will have only 1/4.
The only way for them to appear the same would be if the PenTile one increased brightness (increased power consumption) to compensate.
Some color combinations will save power, others will use more, and in the end, it's a wash.
That conversation took place in our Photon forum, I'll provide a link for those who need to hear her say it - or think of my example and let common sense guide you: no power savings.
I know what their website says, its a marketing claim, we discussed that as well.
Everyone sees differently, trust your eyes, buy what works for you.
PS - I don't like credential-based arguments but some do. My profile page lists mine for those that care about that sort of thing.
I believe that's true w/RGBG (what the Nexus is expected to have), but my understanding is that white pixels in RGBW are especially power efficient, and large white backgrounds are a very common use case on a phone -- that has to be a big win. I thought someone mentioned RGBG being exceptionally energy efficient w/darker pixels, but I could be wrong about that.
PenTile has fewer subpixels, but they're larger. An HD RGB screen will light up 921600 small red subpixels, while PenTile will light up 460800 big red ones. I have no idea how power comparisons come out here.
Link please!
Heh, no argument here. Their site is smoke'n'mirrors.
Definitely. I can readily see the difference between Droid Charge's 216dpi and OG Droid's 264dpi at normal distance, but doubt I could pick up anything beyond that -- and really, the 216dpi was all I need.
Calculated earlier, the Galaxy Nexus' PenTile HD display could be considered to have an effective RGB resolution of 1045x588, which yields a very nice 257dpi.
And I don't like name-dropping, so I won't tell you about my lunch with Stephen Hawking.
Your wish is my command - Nouvoyance CEO chats with us here, note we were discussing rgbw, so my substantiated claims about power being a wash applies fully -
http://androidforums.com/motorola-photon-4g/374557-photon-lcd-screen-pentile-not-2.html
TANSTAAFL, compadre.
Where else can you go to get a first-hand interview with the progenitor of this technology?
I think you owe me a Steven Hawking story!
This is something a lot of journalists like to claim because it's sensational. In the real world though, pixels are defined as pretty much the number of vertical and horizontal alternating black/white stripes that a display can produce while maintaining a certain contrast between each. These PenTile screens actually are their advertised resolution. They just use a different sub-pixel layout, that unfortunately some people are especially sensitive to, and tend to get a tad fuzzy on sharp, hi-contrast edges.
We've been tracking upcoming products and ranking the best tech since 2007. Thanks for trusting our opinion: we get rewarded through affiliate links that earn us a commission and we invite you to learn more about us.