Should I add internal storage ?

[Retrodyne]

Hello,

My Motorola Moto G5 has 16 GB ROM and 3 GB RAM. Recently, app updating slowed to a crawl, then became almost impossible. I deleted a few apps to free some memory, and as a result, updates resumed normally.

Now, Setting/Storage says I have 14.21 GB used out of 16 GB (89 %). My conclusion is, I need to make sure to have much more free ROM, so I don't run into problems again.

So I got into the idea of adding a Micro SD card, formatting it as inside storage. Then I read a few scary posts explanining it would make apps slower, however fast the card. Is this still true, with this phone and today's cards ?

If so, what are my other options ? Would it be better to format a card as portable storage, and only store app data there ? Is it even possible to store app data on a card if it is formatted as portable storage ?

I use my phone very little. It's always off, unless I need to use it. I don't play games, I don't shoot or watch videos and I take very few pictures. I mostly use productivity apps and utilities. I have very few documents or media files saved.

However, I like to test a lot of apps, and I usually leave them on my phone. That's, I guess, what gobbles up space. Also, I have installed several mapping apps, together with downloaded, offline maps. Is it possible to move the latter on a portable storage card ?

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[ocnbrze]

formatting as internal is an option to use if you are running out of space on your phone. however, it still might run slow depending on the speed of your card. yes the higher speed cards will be faster, but the difference really is hardly noticeable. the other thing is that you also run a higher risk of wearing out the sd card. this will increase the risk of the card getting corrupted. you will then lose all of your data......so using your sd card as internal storage is risky.

tbh the best thing you can do is to upgrade your phone. the older the phone gets, the more things will stop working or you will run into other issues. phones by design are meant to last only 3-4 years.....you are waaaaay past that.

so i would format the card as internal, all the while, looking for a new phone.

 

[Retrodyne]

So i would format the card as internal, all the while, looking for a new phone.

Thank you for your answer, but that's one thing which is completely out of the question. When I buy products, I keep using them for a minimum of 20 years. Anything which breaks sooner I consider junk, and I don't stop using things unless they are broken. I'm still using Microsoft Office 2003, just so you know.

What about moving map data on a card formatted as portable storage ?

Alternatively, what type of card would you recommend as internal storage, so that the difference in speed is kept to a minimum, while avoiding overkill ?

 

[ocnbrze]

its called planned obsolescence and it has been happening for quite some time in the mobile phone world. nothing last long any more. it is what it is.

 

[ocnbrze]

Thank you for your answer, but that's one thing which is completely out of the question. When I buy products, I keep using them for a minimum of 20 years. Anything which breaks sooner I consider junk, and I don't stop using things unless they are broken. I'm still using Microsoft Office 2003, just so you know.

What about moving map data on a card formatted as portable storage ?

Alternatively, what type of card would you recommend as internal storage, so that the difference in speed is kept to a minimum, while avoiding overkill ?

not sure about map data. only certain apps will use the sd card for data storage. even if you "move apps" to the sd card. you only are moving a portion of the app. the entire app does not move to the sd card unless you format it as internal. also keep in mind that if you format it that way, than you cannot use the sd card for external storage. you will not be able to remove the card also......so keep that in mind if you format it as such.

 

[puppykickr]

My experience with a card formatted as internal was bad.

The card was $30, and lasted about 3 months total.

When it crashed, it took everything that was on it with it.

There was no putting into any other device to get any data from it, because when formatted as internal it is encrypted to that one device, and cannot be read by any other.

All the videos, pictures, files, documents, data, and apps were gone for good.

The card was shot to hell as well.

Cards have a limited lifespan, rated in read/write cycles.

Using one as internal means that it is used as normal memory- therefore it is being read and written to constantly.

It drastically shortens the life of any card, and is not recommended at all.

That is not to mention the drastically slower overall performance.

A new device with equivalent or better specs can be had at Wal-Mart for $40, which is what you would spend for a larger capacity SD card anyway.

 

[mikedt]

Thank you for your answer, but that's one thing which is completely out of the question. When I buy products, I keep using them for a minimum of 20 years.

Wish I could still be using the phone I bought 20 years ago.

The Nokia 6310i I bought new in 2002. Could connect via IrDA to my OS/2 IBM Thinkpad, as a 9600 baud GSM modem and for syncing data. A great phone back in the day, but I had to move on to newer devices.

Anything which breaks sooner I consider junk, and I don't stop using things unless they are broken. I'm still using Microsoft Office 2003, just so you know.

Good luck trying to open and work on PPTX or DOCX files. Which is something I do very much every day, as part of my job.

What about moving map data on a card formatted as portable storage ?

Depends on the whatever it is mapping app you're using. Some apps can and some can't, all depending on what the devs have decided. I know Baidu Maps can store mapping data on the SD, but that app is only really useful if you're in China.

 

[Dannydet]

Let's see how that phone is after 20 years!!!

 

[puppykickr]

Let's see how that phone is after 20 years!!!

I still have an analog Motorola Microtac 'brick' with multiple Nickle Hydride batteries.
Circa 1997, got it 'new' in a box in 2001, and used it until 2003.

It will still fire up, but the batteries are all weak now.

That thing put out almost 3 Watts and almost always had a very strong signal.
Has an antenna that pulls up to about 4-5 inches.

 

[svim]

You need to really evaluate whether you need to repurpose a microSD card as 'Internal'. It's more of a last resort kind of measure but just personally I think all those rants it'll slow down your phone are more imaginary and not made with actual, documented evidence. A microSD card's read/write speed is significantly slower than the internal storage chip, but for most people won't actually be able to determine if their phone is or is using a card set up as internal in a real blind test. Years ago microSD cards were something of a bottleneck and there's a surprising number of people who still fixate on that time but they're much better, faster, and reliable now.

Just keep in mind that when you do reformat a microSD card as 'Internal', this changes the card significantly. It's default was either FAT32 or exFAT file system but setting it up as Internal changes it to an ext4 file system to be in parity with the existing ext4 file system in your Moto's internal storage chip. It also encrypts the card and with the encryption key tying the card to your Moto specifically. That is now the card is not supposed to be removed as a transfer card. It's essentially and virtually merged with your phone. The Android operating system on your phone now just sees both the internal storage media and card storage media as one, now bigger storage media. If you do change your mind later and want to use your card again as a conventional storage card, you have to do all the changeover back using the Settings >> Storage menu in your Moto because it's a pretty involved process. When the card is set as Internal, it's not usable in any other device anyway, it's not only the ext4 file system that other devices don't support, but the main aspect is that it's encrypted. Reformat it back to 'Portable' will change the card back to a FAT variant.

Anyway, regarding what micrroSD card to buy, they get sorted to different 'classes' so just shop around for a fast card and don't skimp. They're not that expensive and there's a really sizable number of fakes and knock-offs out there so it's really, really important to pay a lot of attention on what you buy and where. Spend a few bucks more to get brand name from a reputable seller. A lot of people buy bargain-bin specials and then rant about losing data or odd read/write errors later.
https://www.sdcard.org/developers/sd-standard-overview/speed-class/
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-microsd-card/

 

[Retrodyne]

Years ago microSD cards were something of a bottleneck and there's a surprising number of people who still fixate on that time but they're much better, faster, and reliable now.

That's what I suspected.

They're not that expensive

In fact, they are extraordinarily cheap. I'm talking about 64 GB, brand-name, high-end cards.

Thanks for detailing the process of reversing the internal storage formatting. I read contradictory statements on the subject.

1.- Is it true that if the card gets corrupted while in internal storage mode, you will need to reset your phone ?

2.- How big is the risk of corruption with modern-day cards ?

3.- Is it true that once inserted and formatted as internal storage, the card can never be pulled out ? Other people say that you can take it out, then put it back in. Some say that if you take it out, put another card in and format it as internal storage, then switch it for the former card, the latter won't work anymore, because the encryption key will have changed.

4.- Once a card is inserted as internal storage, can you back up the contents, for instance by connecting the phone to a PC ? The idea being : can you substitute another card if the present one gets corrupted, or gets filled up ? Or can you just revert to the former cardless state ?

 

[Retrodyne]

Depends on the whatever it is mapping app you're using. Some apps can and some can't, all depending on what the devs have decided.

Thank you.

Good luck trying to open and work on PPTX or DOCX files. Which is something I do very much every day, as part of my job.

I can. Microsoft Office 2003 can open .docx files, thanks to a very, very old update. I do this sometimes. I could even create .docx files with Office 2003. I just don't need to. Close to 100 % of my Word documents are documents I created myself. Eveybody's situation is different.

 

[svim]

When the card is set up as Internal, you shouldn't be interacting with it directly anymore (i.e. using it as a transfer media, mounting and remounting it) It's essentially an internal component in your phone, and it's managed by your your phone/s operating system. So yeah, there's a possibility it gets corrupted, just like there's a chance your phone's internal storage chip gets corrupted, or the WiFi radio chip fails, or the battery fails. Basically, the card will last a lot longer without any human interaction to screw it up (that's just what we do).

Again, DO NOT REMOVE THAT CARD AFTER YOU FORMAT AS INTERNAL. Leave it alone! Your phone's Android OS is using it as part of your phone's internal storage file system so just to emphasize, once it's set up as Internal, that card is no longer going to be usable in other devices. It has a different file system than a Windows or Mac support, and most importantly it'll be encrypted so any data on it is no longer accessible anyway.
The Settings >> Storage menu will be still be able to see that card when it's Internal so you can use its basic file manager to view the contents but that's the same as using it to peruse through your internal storage media where most directories are system-level protected. If you use a third-party, installed file manager app, the card won't be viewable as a separate volume, (unless the file manager app has integral Storage Access Framework support).
Stop expecting to use that card as a removable transfer media when it's Internal.

 

[Retrodyne]

So yeah, there's a possibility it gets corrupted, just like there's a chance your phone's internal storage chip gets corrupted.

What I've often read, though, is that it has a much higher chance than the phone's memory to get corrupted, because it's not the same type of memory, and it was not meant, originally, to be used this way (very frequent read-writes of small files, as opposed to the less frequent read-writes of large files, if you use the card as portable storage for media files and documents).

Once it's set up as Internal, that card is no longer going to be usable in other devices.

Unless you reformat it, right ?

 

[puppykickr]

This happened to me back in 2019, with a 32GB SanDisk card.

It wasn't even 2/3 full, and only 3 months old.
It crashed, and nothing was recoverable.

A new card, formatted as external, and basically completely starting over with the device (because the apps I put on it were destroyed with the card) was the only fix.

Fast forward to last summer, when I got a new device with 256GB SD card capacity.
I put a brand new 256GB SD card into it, and formatted it as external.

After about 6 months and 30GB of data, it crashed and took whatever it had on it to the grave.

The card cost as much as the device.

Like I told you earlier, a modern device with equivalent or better specs as the one you have now can be purchased for the same amount of money as an SD card that will only bring you frustration and grief at best.

At worst, it will work flawlessly in a device that will have a failed battery, or just plain no longer work on any network at all.
If it is formatted as internal, then it is stuck with that device.

Of course, you could take it out and reformat it in another device- but that would erase everything on it.

The reality of the situation is that your money would be better spent on a new device.

Your old one will still work on Wi-Fi, at least until something happens to it.

 

[svim]

What I've often read, though, is that it has a much higher chance than the phone's memory to get corrupted, because it's not the same type of memory, and it was not meant, originally, to be used this way (very frequent read-writes of small files, as opposed to the less frequent read-writes of large files, if you use the card as portable storage for media files and documents).



Unless you reformat it, right ?

Well there's still a lot of very outdated info floating around the Internet, mixed in with plenty of odd supposition so yeah, if you want to believe that microSD cards are a weak point and problematic than really, don't use them for your own peace of mind. Get a phone with a lot more internal storage and quit aggravating yourself with worries that a microSD card is such a bad thing.
Meanwhile, here in the real world there are literally millions of those SD cards in use across the planet. Most are just doing whatever they're set up to do. They are definitely not a perfect solution as storage media, far from it. SD cards are much better now, and have been since perhaps a decade or so ago. The big problem that's a pervasive drawback is the default file format problem that's based on the out-of-date FAT file system. Years ago the USB-IF board (Universal Serial Bus - Implementers Forum), the misguided organization that arbitrarily determines standards and protocols for USB products and services, opted to use Microsoft's FAT file system as the default for USB storage media. Their logic was based on the fact that since Windows had full support for FAT media (at that time Windows had a 90% market share) and other platforms included basic FAT support. So we can get USB flash drive, typically FAT32 or exFAT, and just plug it into a WinPC, a Mac, a Linux box, a web cam, a router, a set-top DVR, whatever and the drive should just auto-mount itself and we can use that same USB flash drive to transfer files to any other device. Reformat that USB flash drive at NTFS and then it's only usable on a WinPC, or reformat it to as HFS+ and it's only usable on a Mac. But the drawback is FAT was a really weak file system even in its day. It lacked stability, reliability, and was just crappy at file retention. Microsoft stopped supporting it years ago, but retains its licensing even though it's hardly the cash cow it used to be. So it's still proprietary but so dated it can't support the needs of new technology even it was to be actively developed. That's the problem with microSD cards in general. The physical media is fine, the NAND chips in a SD card are lessor to the NAND chips used in internal storage but the default file system is a horrid weak point. FAT wasn't that reliable before, it's still bad now. And we're stuck with it because of the legacy compatibility aspect.

Again, look at changing a microSD card to internal as last resort matter.There are a lot a factors to take into consideration. And switching the card back to Portable will allow you use the card again as a common transfer card again. That will format the card bac to a FAT32 or exFAT file system and remove the encryption. but do note that's also going to be a significant and drastic change as far as the installed Android operating system on your phone. You're intentionally removing storage capacity so that will affect a lot of the data from a file system aspect. Hopefully it might be minor where you might need to just reload a few apps but changing your mind about the card should be done because you have to, not just because you want to.

 

[Retrodyne]

Well there's still a lot of very outdated info floating around the Internet, mixed in with plenty of odd supposition so yeah, if you want to believe that microSD cards are a weak point and problematic than really, don't use them for your own peace of mind. Get a phone with a lot more internal storage and quit aggravating yourself with worries that a microSD card is such a bad thing.

I don't want to believe anything, I'm just asking. I wasn't aware FAT was such a problem. Is it used for portable storage only, or for internal as well ?

 

[Retrodyne]

This happened to me back in 2019, with a 32GB SanDisk card.

It wasn't even 2/3 full, and only 3 months old.
It crashed, and nothing was recoverable.

A new card, formatted as external, and basically completely starting over with the device (because the apps I put on it were destroyed with the card) was the only fix.

Fast forward to last summer, when I got a new device with 256GB SD card capacity.
I put a brand new 256GB SD card into it, and formatted it as external.

After about 6 months and 30GB of data, it crashed and took whatever it had on it to the grave.

The card cost as much as the device.

Like I told you earlier, a modern device with equivalent or better specs as the one you have now can be purchased for the same amount of money as an SD card that will only bring you frustration and grief at best.

At worst, it will work flawlessly in a device that will have a failed battery, or just plain no longer work on any network at all.
If it is formatted as internal, then it is stuck with that device.

Of course, you could take it out and reformat it in another device- but that would erase everything on it.

The reality of the situation is that your money would be better spent on a new device.

Your old one will still work on Wi-Fi, at least until something happens to it.

Your testimony is interesting. I'm curious about your advice to buy a new phone at Walmart for 40 $. I'm not an American, so Walmart is not relevant for me. But I really doubt that a Moto G 5 contemporary equivalent could be bought for the equivalent of 40 $ in my country.

Also, you talk about buying a phone with equivalent characteristics. That would be of no use to me. My phone works perfectly, apart from this slight annoyance about memory. It has many, many years of life left in it.

My battery is brand new, because I use the phone very little, I always charge slowly, I never charge more than 80 % and I take care not to discharge beyond 30 %. Anyway, I took care to buy a phone with a replaceable battery.

There's no question of the phone losing connectivity anytime soon. 4 G is here to stay, and anyway I don't use cellular at all, only Wifi.

So no, I certainly don't need to buy another phone. Just because any Tom, Dick or Harry thinks he must buy a new phone every few years, and actually does as he's told by the industry, does not mean everybody has to follow suit.

Either I'll stop collecting apps I don't use, and uninstall enough of them, or I'll buy a 12 € Micro SD card (this is way cheaper than your mystery Walmart phone, which does not exist over here).

 

[mikedt]

Your testimony is interesting. I'm curious about your advice to buy a new phone at Walmart for 40 $. I'm not an American, so Walmart is not relevant for me. But I really doubt that a Moto G 5 contemporary equivalent could be bought for the equivalent of 40 $ in my country.

Are you in North Korea or something? The thing is, we don't know what country you're in. I think most users of this board are in the US. I'm actually in China myself, and there's a Walmart and Sam's Club just down the road. But for buying a phone, I go to the local tech mall, where I can purchase a reasonable phone for equivalent of $40-60 USD.

 

[puppykickr]

Actually, it is not 'Tom, Dick, and Harry' this time.

It is EVERYONE.
You device will not work shortly, because of (1) physics, (2) carriers are changing technology to something your current device cannot do, and (3) your habit of collecting apps that you don't use.

All three of these will break ANY device at any cost level.

A specific device I refer to is the TCL A3, which has 3GB RAM, 32GB internal storage, 8 core processor (4 of which are 2GHz) and a 512GB capable SD card slot- $40 at Wal-Mart all day long.

I just looked at SD cards the other day, and a good brand (SanDisk) with nominal capacity will cost about the same.

This is exactly what I am talking about.

One more story for you.

You and I actually share the same views on things.

Yours are with technology, mine is with vehicles.

My every day driver for 25 years?
A 1970 (2 years older than me) Cutlass 4 door sedan.
It was 25 years old when I got it.

Long story short, no modern car for 25 years could beat it for anything except for MPG.

A 5.7 Liter Oldsmobile Rocket engine that roared down the road, and even off of it as well.
I put a half ton suspension underneath and truck tires on it.

Well, the October befor last, it finally died.
I spent over $1000 trying to fix everything that I know how to.

All that year without a car.

I still cannot part with it.
I have devoted 25 years of customization and work to this thing that looks like an absolute wreck, but ran like a raped ape.

My mother gave me use of her 2002 Honda Accord, which although it is nice, I hate.

I hit my head getting in, hit my knees when I am in, and if there is a keychain on the key it will tickle my kneecap as I drive.

The driver's door will not stay open when I open it, the truck lid is about the same, and the hood is definitely a decapitation device.

I am angry as soon as I put the key into the door, as it goes backwards from the Olds.

The airbags in this ricecan are known to kill people.

Turn the engine off, leave the key in the ignition, and open the door, and the most annoying sound that will not end will drive you insane.

These are all things that the Cutlass proved over and over do not need to exist.

Now gasoline is near $5 a gallon, and the Cutlass got 10/12 MPG, while the Honda gets close to 30.

Of course, the Honda has a gastank that should be on a motorcycle, so I still need to stop for fuel just as often.

Did I mention that I am 4'9" tall?
Just how small are Japanese people, to where I am hitting my head and cracking knees getting in and out of their cars?!?

Not to mention the absolute squeeze I have to do to get out of it.

I now hate to drive, no joke- whereas I used to love driving that Olds.

The point is that the stupid, poorly fitting Honda gets me to work and back, while the beloved Olds is rotting away in my Dad's garage.

It won't even hardly fire with starting fluid right now.

I was lucky, because the Olds was of an era in American cars where a car lasted 5 years or 100,000 miles.

At that point, you traded it in for another, sold it, or passed it on to your children- and it needed a lot of work.
(That is how the majority of us used to learn about fixing cars.)

The moral of this story is that you can do whatever you want, but there are always limits.

You can shoot for the moon, but there is always a most efficient way and a least efficient way to do things.

Right now, your phone is like my Cutlass.

The new device that you don't want is like my Honda.

You can have both, like I do.
I know which way is more efficient, but I also know what I want.

But I also have to have a working car, just as you have to have a working phone.

If you have the money to buy a new SD card, you have the money to buy a new device that will serve the immediate cause better.

I actually have the money saved to rebuild the entire drive train of the Cutlass, which would absolutely solve whatever issue it has.

But, with gas as high cost as it is now, and the demise of gasoline powered vehicles looming within my lifetime, is it efficient to spend my entire savings on such a venture?

 

[Retrodyne]

All right, it seems the usefulness of this dicussion is exhausted. We've got past the point of helpful tips being shared, and into ideological territory.

I'm not willing to tell what country I'm in, for privacy reasons which should be obvious. It also should be obvious that I know how much things cost in my country. I don't need any outside help for that.

Thank you to all who contributed.