can you give me some advice on the best camera phone with excellent autonomy under 600 €?

[germandowski]

Under € 600 excluding the note 10 (which I don't like the display) the best alternative as a main camera is the mi 10 right?
because I believe that the only alternatives are: samsung S20 FE 5G, mi 10, p30 pro
Based on the main one with pixel binning we have:
- Mi 10 = 27MP, f1.7, 1 / 1.33 ", 1.66um
- p30 pro = 10MP, f1.6, 1 / 1.7 ", 2um
- FE 5G = 12MP, f1.8, 1 / 1.76 ", 1.8um
In theory the best should be the mi 10 which has a larger sensor size and higher resolution, right?
Because it is true that the p30 pro / FE 5g have a larger individual pixel size ... but the sensor size should be more important, right?
(all this speech excluding the software for now)
Thank you
.
Sorry I used google translate: autonomy = battery life

 

[Hadron]

The problem is that theory doesn't always translate into practice, i.e. specs are not necessarily a reliable guide to performance. A good sensor with a second-rate lens will produce second-rate images. And with a smartphone's small sensors (they are all small) the processing is particularly important: lesser sensor plus better software will often win. So headline specs about sensor size and number of pixels are only part of the story.

If we just look at those specs 1/1.33" is the largest sensor, so should collect the most light and hence suffer least from shot noise, provided that other characteristics are equal - but if there are other differences e.g. one is FSI and one BSI, that can modify the result. Having more pixels actually means that all else being equal the readout noise will be larger (pixel binning reduces this but does not eliminate). Which matters most will depend on the characteristics of the electronics and the conditions you are shooting in (bright vs dim). And of course when comparing 2 sensors it's not that likely that things like the noise characteristics per channel are identical, and the handling of noise is one of the areas where software choices make a big difference.

In short, broadly bigger sensor = better, yes, but I'd always try to find samples of images taken by the different cameras and make my judgement based on the results rather than the specs.

 

[germandowski]

The problem is that theory doesn't always translate into practice, i.e. specs are not necessarily a reliable guide to performance. A good sensor with a second-rate lens will produce second-rate images. And with a smartphone's small sensors (they are all small) the processing is particularly important: lesser sensor plus better software will often win. So headline specs about sensor size and number of pixels are only part of the story.

If we just look at those specs 1/1.33" is the largest sensor, so should collect the most light and hence suffer least from shot noise, provided that other characteristics are equal - but if there are other differences e.g. one is FSI and one BSI, that can modify the result. Having more pixels actually means that all else being equal the readout noise will be larger (pixel binning reduces this but does not eliminate). Which matters most will depend on the characteristics of the electronics and the conditions you are shooting in (bright vs dim). And of course when comparing 2 sensors it's not that likely that things like the noise characteristics per channel are identical, and the handling of noise is one of the areas where software choices make a big difference.

In short, broadly bigger sensor = better, yes, but I'd always try to find samples of images taken by the different cameras and make my judgement based on the results rather than the specs.

What do "FSI" and "BSI" mean?
in any case which of those phones would you recommend me? or if you know other phones that are fine, I listen to you.

 

[Hadron]

Front Side Illuminated vs Back Side Illuminated - basically BSI sensors have less stuff between the active silicon and the light, so record a better signal for the same pixel size. Many good phone cameras use BSI sensors these days, but I couldn't say which do or do not. I mainly mentioned it as one of the reasons why just looking at sensor or pixel size alone, the "headline specifications" of the sensor, may not be the whole story.

I don't know myself whether the phone's you name are the best, or whether there are better. I tend to catch up on the state of things like this more when I'm thinking of replacing my phone, which I'm not currently, but even then a phone is only an "opportunity camera" (i.e. the one I have with me) rather than my real camera, so I don't require it is the absolute best.

So I did mean that I would look at sample images on review sites or photo sharing sites and see whether you like the images each produces. Different people look for different things, e.g. I prefer more natural colours but some like them more saturated, some like to see no trace of noise while others prefer more detail even if that means some noise is visible. And things like that you can't tell from the camera specifications because they depend on how the images are processed, and what one person prefers another might dislike. So it's best to judge for yourself.

Also what camera features are important to you? Do you care about tele or wide angle lenses, for example? Or is the quality from the main camera so important that things like that are irrelevant?

And what other phone features do you require? There's no point someone suggesting other phones if they are not acceptable to you for other reasons (e.g. none of the phones you name would interest me because they are all too big for my tastes, which probably means that any phone I would choose would be too small for you).

 

[germandowski]

Front Side Illuminated vs Back Side Illuminated - basically BSI sensors have less stuff between the active silicon and the light, so record a better signal for the same pixel size. Many good phone cameras use BSI sensors these days, but I couldn't say which do or do not. I mainly mentioned it as one of the reasons why just looking at sensor or pixel size alone, the "headline specifications" of the sensor, may not be the whole story.

I don't know myself whether the phone's you name are the best, or whether there are better. I tend to catch up on the state of things like this more when I'm thinking of replacing my phone, which I'm not currently, but even then a phone is only an "opportunity camera" (i.e. the one I have with me) rather than my real camera, so I don't require it is the absolute best.

So I did mean that I would look at sample images on review sites or photo sharing sites and see whether you like the images each produces. Different people look for different things, e.g. I prefer more natural colours but some like them more saturated, some like to see no trace of noise while others prefer more detail even if that means some noise is visible. And things like that you can't tell from the camera specifications because they depend on how the images are processed, and what one person prefers another might dislike. So it's best to judge for yourself.

Also what camera features are important to you? Do you care about tele or wide angle lenses, for example? Or is the quality from the main camera so important that things like that are irrelevant?

And what other phone features do you require? There's no point someone suggesting other phones if they are not acceptable to you for other reasons (e.g. none of the phones you name would interest me because they are all too big for my tastes, which probably means that any phone I would choose would be too small for you).

Thanks for the reply. So I'm only interested in the main camera. In particular, for better photos I mean less noise with the same detail. So taking two RAW photos from different devices, I would choose the phone with the image that has the least overall noise.
For this I was referring to low light conditions.
For now, other particular features I'm looking for (besides of course the battery life) don't come to mind. Definitely it's android and has GMS

 

[germandowski]

I have a question ... but if I look at the comparative photos between stock camera and gcam of the mi 10 pro it is as if I look at them of the mi 10?
because I find very few comparative stock vs gcam photos of the Mi 10

 

[Trom]

Under € 600 excluding the note 10 (which I don't like the display) the best alternative as a main camera is the mi 10 right?
because I believe that the only alternatives are: samsung S20 FE 5G, mi 10, p30 pro
Based on the main one with pixel binning we have:
- Mi 10 = 27MP, f1.7, 1 / 1.33 ", 1.66um
- p30 pro = 10MP, f1.6, 1 / 1.7 ", 2um
- FE 5G = 12MP, f1.8, 1 / 1.76 ", 1.8um
In theory the best should be the mi 10 which has a larger sensor size and higher resolution, right?
Because it is true that the p30 pro / FE 5g have a larger individual pixel size ... but the sensor size should be more important, right?
(all this speech excluding the software for now)
Thank you
.
Sorry I used google translate: autonomy = battery life

Pixel 5 just came out for almost exactly 600 euros, they have really nice cameras.

 

[germandowski]

Pixel 5 just came out for almost exactly 600 euros, they have really nice cameras.

yes but unfortunately google has decided well not to sell it in Italy and if I have to buy from abroad, I do it only through amazon.
It is currently only sold by amazon.uk at an insane amount ...

 

[Trom]

yes but unfortunately google has decided well not to sell it in Italy and if I have to buy from abroad, I do it only through amazon.
It is currently only sold by amazon.uk at an insane amount ...

If you have any family or friends in America you could get around that easily enough.

 

[Hadron]

The Amazon UK price is from a third party reseller and is about 10% over the UK list price (which includes sales taxes). It may fall when the phone has been released for longer, but at the moment it's out of stock in the UK Play Store so there is no incentive for them to reduce right now.

One thing to consider with an import is whether you will have a warranty, and how much you care about that. I don't know about Italian law, but if someone were to send the phone from the US to the UK the receipient would have to pay the equivalent of the sales tax on it (the sender could lie about the contents of the package or their value, but there is a risk involved with doing that). If Italian duties are the same as UK that might still be worth it relative to the current Amazon UK price. But by the same token asking a friend in France, Germany or Ireland to buy you one would probably be better: no duties (as bought within the EU) and possibly the warranty would be valid.

 

[germandowski]

The Amazon UK price is from a third party reseller and is about 10% over the UK list price (which includes sales taxes). It may fall when the phone has been released for longer, but at the moment it's out of stock in the UK Play Store so there is no incentive for them to reduce right now.

One thing to consider with an import is whether you will have a warranty, and how much you care about that. I don't know about Italian law, but if someone were to send the phone from the US to the UK the receipient would have to pay the equivalent of the sales tax on it (the sender could lie about the contents of the package or their value, but there is a risk involved with doing that). If Italian duties are the same as UK that might still be worth it relative to the current Amazon UK price. But by the same token asking a friend in France, Germany or Ireland to buy you one would probably be better: no duties (as bought within the EU) and possibly the warranty would be valid.

I was at this point seriously evaluating the pixel 4a sold for 389 € in Italy (to save money). Guess? It is sold out!
Do you think it will be available again in the future? Is it really possible that the sale of this 4a is already over?

 

[Hadron]

It will definitely be available again. This is just Google doing an inadequate job of anticipating demand.

 

[germandowski]

It will definitely be available again. This is just Google doing an inadequate job of anticipating demand.

maybe they weren't expecting much success.
I myself have never considered pixels (out of my ignorance).
Are there phones that offer similar photographic quality by installing the gcam at roughly the same amount?
(Thanks again)

 

[Hadron]

That's a trickier question than it sounds. I'm not an expert on this, but how well the gcam works on different phones (where it has been ported at all) does vary from what I've seen. Phones using the same sensor as the Pixels tend to work quite well, because that's the sensor that Google optimise their algorithms for (and might explain why they are still using the same sensor, to the distaste of some tech bloggers). But I'm afraid I've not been keeping up with the state of gcam ports on different devices.

 

[germandowski]

That's a trickier question than it sounds. I'm not an expert on this, but how well the gcam works on different phones (where it has been ported at all) does vary from what I've seen. Phones using the same sensor as the Pixels tend to work quite well, because that's the sensor that Google optimise their algorithms for (and might explain why they are still using the same sensor, to the distaste of some tech bloggers). But I'm afraid I've not been keeping up with the state of gcam ports on different devices.

as far as I know an excellent gcam / xml has been developed on the Mi note 10. Unfortunately I hate that specific display otherwise it would have been the smartphone of my dreams ...
Has Google waited a long time in the past to make its devices available again after the first wave of orders?

 

[germandowski]

Hello everybody.
I just wanted to update you that I was able to order it (the pixel 4a) and it will arrive in a month (what a long time ...).
I'll let you know.