LTE knocks that invariably mention the iPhone...

aurora40 · Nov 3, 2012

I've noticed a lot of the criticism around the lack of LTE invariably mentions how the iPhone added it. I don't quite get why that matters, though. People seem to mention how "connected" the iPhone is, and how they spared no expense making it connect to everything.

The iPhone up until the 5 has had crappy connectivity. The iPhone 4 had EV-DO Rev A, and HSPA. The 4S upped that to Rev B and HSPA+ 14.4. These technologies don't result in particularly impressive data speeds. Especially on the Verizon version, which I would bet is the most common iPhone variant in the US.

Compared to the 4 and 4s, the Nexus 4 can support far superior data speeds. And the Nexus 4 supports AWS band HSPA+, something the iPhone 5 still doesn't do.

Apple needed LTE on their iPhone 5, because the connectivity of previous iPhones was pretty lame. That's not true of the Nexus 4. Google had made two LTE Nexus phones, and a WiMax one. They apparently weren't too pleased with the experience.

But it is true, Apple has spared no expense. The 4s still costs a whopping $550 unlocked from Apple, 80% more than the N4. And the 5 can not be purchased outright at all. At least partly due to the fact that they had to make three different versions in order to make sure the LTE will work with whatever carrier you enter into a 2-year agreement with as part of the purchase.

The Nexus 4 is not intended to be an iPhone wannabe. It won't be available on all carriers. It also won't cost very much. If the specs don't match it, who cares?

If you want a phone that supports LTE, or CDMA, or whatever, that's the beauty of Android. Google doesn't have to make a phone that is all things to all people, because if their phone isn't "it" to you, someone else can make one that is. Phones like the SIII, One X, or Xperia TL have LTE, HD screens, SD card slots, and all sorts of other things.

Anyway, that's just my thought. I'm sure if you are on Verizon and were hoping to get the next Nexus, it sucks. But for T-Mobile customers, many Canadian and European customers, and even some AT&T customers (though their HSPA+ network leaves something to be desired)

sean76 · Nov 3, 2012

@ the OP...
I have to disagree! LTE is becoming a standard in the USA, especially in the Big cities. And honestly some of us (me and a slew of many others) really enjoy the vanilla Android experience, and support the whole Nexus movement. Essentially people who have already become accustomed to LTE speeds are being asked to take a step back because Google couldn't achieve what Apple has been able to, which is pretty much control updates and what not. Google basically took its ball and went home and left a lot of us out in cold.

killxswitch · Nov 4, 2012

sean76 said:
@ the OP...
I have to disagree! LTE is becoming a standard in the USA, especially in the Big cities. And honestly some of us (me and a slew of many others) really enjoy the vanilla Android experience, and support the whole Nexus movement. Essentially people who have already become accustomed to LTE speeds are being asked to take a step back because Google couldn't achieve what Apple has been able to, which is pretty much control updates and what not. Google basically took its ball and went home and left a lot of us out in cold.

If the Nexus brand develops a nation of drones that buy everything then they'll be able to control updates like Apple can. Until then, they have to make the bets decision for them. Given how global they are as a company it doesn't surprise me they ignored LTE. Outside the US, LTE has almost no footprint.

G would not be able to sell this phone for this price if they made it US-centric. And if this phone wasn't coming out at the $300/$350 price point, it would not be nearly as compelling.

aurora40 · Nov 4, 2012

sean76 said:
@ the OP...
I have to disagree! LTE is becoming a standard in the USA, especially in the Big cities. And honestly some of us (me and a slew of many others) really enjoy the vanilla Android experience, and support the whole Nexus movement. Essentially people who have already become accustomed to LTE speeds are being asked to take a step back because Google couldn't achieve what Apple has been able to, which is pretty much control updates and what not. Google basically took its ball and went home and left a lot of us out in cold.

Just to be clear, you are talking about people with AT&T who live in cities with LTE? Those are the only people in the US that will have to "step back" if they choose to get a Nexus 4.

And as far as it becoming the standard, it is hardly standard at all. None of the US carriers with LTE carry voice over it yet. So you have to be able to support all their 2 and 3g connections as well.

Right now, AT&T and Verizon have LTE in the 700MHz spectrum. Sprint is in the PCS range, 1900 MHz. T-Mobile is planning to deploy it in the AWS spectrum, 1700MHz. But Metro, which they are merging with, has it in both AWS and PCS bands. Additionally AT&T is looking at deploying in the AWS as well as the 2300MHz spectrum as they feel they don't have enough current spectrum in 700MHz.

And that's just in the US, and just plans that have been announced already. So it's not like they just throw an LTE chip in there and call it a day.

I'm not suggesting LTE wouldn't be nice. Mainly I think the iPhone analogy is flawed. The iPhone needed LTE. The Nexus 4 doesn't. But also it seems Google felt they couldn't deliver on the experience they wanted while including LTE. As far as leaving you out in the cold, they could either deliver a Google phone, or they could deliver another Verizon Galaxy Nexus with LTE. They chose to deliver a Google phone.

It's odd you think they should play ball in order to get control over updates and such.

adi19956 · Nov 4, 2012

I think the criticism comes because of the iPhone's abysmal connectivity record.
The criticism is "Even the iPhone has LTE now, so for a Nexus to not is crazy"

It's because traditionally Nexus devices have been the standard. They've been at the forefront of connectivity, the first to add NFC etc.

Either way it doesn't matter for me because I live in the UK and there are only 11 cities with LTE, none of which I live in, and 4G contracts are a fortune! (By British standards)

MartinS · Nov 4, 2012

The UK has (as of a couple of weeks ago) LTE in 10 cities. Outside of that, HSPA. It won't be worth it for us for at least a year. I'm guessing that most of Europe and the ROW are the same.

adi19956 · Nov 4, 2012

MartinS said:
The UK has (as of a couple of weeks ago) LTE in 10 cities. Outside of that, HSPA. It won't be worth it for us for at least a year. I'm guessing that most of Europe and the ROW are the same.

You'd be surprised at how far behind we are in the UK there's a list of 4G countries here and here
Most of Scandinavia has had it for ages

aurora40 · Nov 4, 2012

adi19956 said:
I think the criticism comes because of the iPhone's abysmal connectivity record.
The criticism is "Even the iPhone has LTE now, so for a Nexus to not is crazy"

Ok, that's a good point.

tsilvernail · Nov 4, 2012

sean76 said:
@ the OP...
I have to disagree! LTE is becoming a standard in the USA, especially in the Big cities. And honestly some of us (me and a slew of many others) really enjoy the vanilla Android experience, and support the whole Nexus movement. Essentially people who have already become accustomed to LTE speeds are being asked to take a step back because Google couldn't achieve what Apple has been able to, which is pretty much control updates and what not. Google basically took its ball and went home and left a lot of us out in cold.

on the ball analogy, I think its more like Google is trying to play kickball, and everyone else wants to play dodgeball. Its google's ball and if they want it used for kickball, why would they let it be used for dodgeball?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't so much that google couldn't achieve LTE, it was that they did not want too. The LTE customers were not, in my opinion based of what I've seen, Google's target market. Why would they waste money deploying it for a market they're not trying to tap into? LTE is still a young technology that the majority of carriers still don't have deployed very well at all. Even Verizon who has the largest LTE network, still won't be fully deployed until the end of 2013, assuming everything finishes on time. I would be surprised if the next generation of th Nexus doesn't have LTE, but for this model it simply doesn't make sense from a logistical and financial point.

Also in the Sprint/Verizon world I think that it has more too do with not wanting to add CDMA support to the phone, hacking away at previous real estate just to accommodate two carriers (for the most part, I realise there are a few prepaid CDMA carriers out there)

Bottom line, the Nexus 4 is a rock solid (by all accounts) phone that lines up with what Google is trying to accomplish. If you want LTE, there are some amazing phones that you are able to purchase (razr hd, SG3, etc.)

yfan · Nov 5, 2012

aurora40 said:
The Nexus 4 is not intended to be an iPhone wannabe. It won't be available on all carriers. It also won't cost very much. If the specs don't match it, who cares?

Not only that, other than LTE, the Nexus 4 has better specs than the iPhone 5. At the current stage of technologies and considering the lack of interoperability of the different LTE spectra, the lack of LTE for Nexus 4 is almost a feature rather than a bug.

sean76 said:
@ the OP...
I have to disagree! LTE is becoming a standard in the USA, especially in the Big cities. And honestly some of us (me and a slew of many others) really enjoy the vanilla Android experience, and support the whole Nexus movement. Essentially people who have already become accustomed to LTE speeds are being asked to take a step back because Google couldn't achieve what Apple has been able to, which is pretty much control updates and what not. Google basically took its ball and went home and left a lot of us out in cold.

In all honesty, Google could say that about you.

Here's how Apple is able to control updates and get carriers to sign their terms: by tightly controlling all devices ANY of its operating systems run on. Android was never built with the same mindset. If it were, Google would control the singular flagship handset, its manufacturing, and would not allow anyone else to use Android on their devices.

By the way, just who is becoming "accustomed" to LTE speeds, other than people with a lot of money to throw at their monthly bill and/or people with a lot of money to throw at handsets so they can buy them out of contract and remain on "grandfathered" plans? I would imagine that the vast majority of the people who have access to LTE data are still connecting to wifi whenever they can so they don't have to pay data overage charges.

sean76 · Nov 5, 2012

yfan said:
Not only that, other than LTE, the Nexus 4 has better specs than the iPhone 5. At the current stage of technologies and considering the lack of interoperability of the different LTE spectra, the lack of LTE for Nexus 4 is almost a feature rather than a bug.

In all honesty, Google could say that about you.

Here's how Apple is able to control updates and get carriers to sign their terms: by tightly controlling all devices ANY of its operating systems run on. Android was never built with the same mindset. If it were, Google would control the singular flagship handset, its manufacturing, and would not allow anyone else to use Android on their devices.

By the way, just who is becoming "accustomed" to LTE speeds, other than people with a lot of money to throw at their monthly bill and/or people with a lot of money to throw at handsets so they can buy them out of contract and remain on "grandfathered" plans? I would imagine that the vast majority of the people who have access to LTE data are still connecting to wifi whenever they can so they don't have to pay data overage charges.

Jeeeeez, do you know how many of you sound like the Apple fan boys sounded last year when the 4S launched? Give it a rest already...

Tell you what, walk into any at&t or VZW store in the 5 boroughs of NY, or better yet any LTE areas of the East Coast and ask them if people are coming in asking to buy phones that don't have LTE? Over where I am, and live and reside LTE is a standard as well as where friends of mine that live out West in L A and San Diego.

Enough is enough already, your Happy with HSPA speeds where you are? Great! Your happy with an out of date technology that is lite years behind LTE? Great! What ever makes you happy is all that counts.

However, and this is directed at all of you making the argument that Google was in fact right in doing what they did...I can guarantee that all of you will be on these very forums 3 months from now when a New Varient or even the LG Nexus with LTE is ready to get released! I can hear it now, how can Google do this, how can they now realease an LTE enabled device after just releasing one with HSPA+? This is BS, blah blah blah....lol I can hear it now!

yfan · Nov 5, 2012

sean76 said:
Jeeeeez, do you know how many of you sound like the Apple fan boys sounded last year when the 4S launched? Give it a rest already...

Here's a pointer: address the points being made instead of throwing out personal attacks and namecalling. Always works better that way.

Tell you what, walk into any at&t or VZW store in the 5 boroughs of NY, or better yet any LTE areas of the East Coast and ask them if people are coming in asking to buy phones that don't have LTE?

That's ridiculous. Nobody ever goes into stores asking for the absence of something. The real question is, rather, whether the absence of LTE is a dealbreaker. The further question for those for whom the lack of LTE IS a dealbreaker is whether no substitute for a Nexus device will do. Lastly, you won't find the Nexus 4 by walking into a VZW or At&T store anyway. It will mostly be available online, or in T-mobile stores.

Enough is enough already, your [sic] Happy with HSPA speeds where you are? Great! Your [sic] happy with an out of date technology that is lite [sic] years behind LTE? Great! What ever makes you happy is all that counts.

Actually, yes I'm happy with HSPA+. T-mobile's HSPA+ 42 actually beat VZW's LTE speeds in 11 cities this year (so much for light years). And yes, whatever makes me happy IS all that counts when it comes to MY choice of phones. Dude, it's just a phone. Stop getting all animated about it. If you must have LTE, get a phone with LTE. This is why consumers have choices. Make one.

However, and this is directed at all of you making the argument that Google was in fact right in doing what they did...I can guarantee that all of you will be on these very forums 3 months from now when a New Varient or even the LG Nexus with LTE is ready to get released! I can hear it now, how can Google do this, how can they now realease an LTE enabled device after just releasing one with HSPA+? This is BS, blah blah blah....lol I can hear it now!

Actually, at least I won't be whining about it IF Google releases an LTE variant of the Nexus 4. And I doubt Google will. But since you seem pretty confident that Google will release such a variant in 3 months, let's look at it from the other side. If you think Google will release an LTE variant in 3 months' time, why are YOU so mad at Google about this one? Just wait 3 months and you'll get yours, right? If people who will complain should an LTE variant be released in the future are worthy of ridicule, people who are preemptively complaining now while seemingly confident that such a version is coming are no less worthy of similar ridicule.

sean76 · Nov 5, 2012

yfan said:
Here's a pointer: address the points being made instead of throwing out personal attacks and namecalling. Always works better that way.

That's ridiculous. Nobody ever goes into stores asking for the absence of something. The real question is, rather, whether the absence of LTE is a dealbreaker. The further question for those for whom the lack of LTE IS a dealbreaker is whether no substitute for a Nexus device will do. Lastly, you won't find the Nexus 4 by walking into a VZW or At&T store anyway. It will mostly be available online, or in T-mobile stores.

Actually, yes I'm happy with HSPA+. T-mobile's HSPA+ 42 actually beat VZW's LTE speeds in 11 cities this year (so much for light years). And yes, whatever makes me happy IS all that counts when it comes to MY choice of phones. Dude, it's just a phone. Stop getting all animated about it. If you must have LTE, get a phone with LTE. This is why consumers have choices. Make one.

Actually, at least I won't be whining about it IF Google releases an LTE variant of the Nexus 4. And I doubt Google will. But since you seem pretty confident that Google will release such a variant in 3 months, let's look at it from the other side. If you think Google will release an LTE variant in 3 months' time, why are YOU so mad at Google about this one? Just wait 3 months and you'll get yours, right? If people who will complain should an LTE variant be released in the future are worthy of ridicule, people who are preemptively complaining now while seemingly confident that such a version is coming are no less worthy of similar ridicule.

Here's a simple pointer and exit to this buddy...take a step back and read your posts...your the one with the personal attack!

Here's a solution...Get the 4 and enjoy it!

You are already on TMO and have never experienced LTE because your network doesn't have it, so therefore you and TMO customers should be perfectly content and happy. Us with LTE have been on LTE for a long while now and most of us will not go backwards, even if it means getting a beautiful Vanillla run Android phone. The speed for me is to much to give up! And I can tell you this, from the early reviews I've seen so far on Engadget and the Verge they feel as I do about the lack of LTE on what's supposed to be a flag ship phone.

I tested my friends TMO GS3 last night vs both my at&t GS3 and at&t iphone 5 and the result was not pretty out here in Brooklyn. The most he was able to get was 3 kbps down, while I was getting an average of about 30 kbps down, that's just too much to give up. Now we all know this is based on where your at, but no matter where I go out here in the 5 boroughs there won't be any signs of HSPA+ getting anywhere near those numbers, so as I've said it's a downer that an LTE Varient won't be available from Jumpstreet. Either way enjoy your new phone, no reason to go back and fourth.

yfan · Nov 5, 2012

sean76 said:
Here's a simple pointer and exit to this buddy...take a step back and read your posts...your the one with the personal attack!

Oh? Please do point it out. Quotes, please.

If the LTE speed is too much for you to give up, don't. Simply choose another phone. It really isn't complicated.

By the way, how do you know that I didn't actually switch FROM an LTE carrier TO T-mobile (which I actually did)? I did that because their prepaid $30, 5GB 4G (HSPA+) plan worked out better for me and saves me a ton of money. See, THIS is what I mean by consumer choice. I decided what was important for me, and I found the best deal I could get. So should you. I like Nexus phones, but I'm no loyalist. I will always buy the phone and choose the plan that gives me the best value. We're consumers first, brand loyalists second (if that) - at least that's how I see myself.

JevyJav · Nov 5, 2012

I'm getting tired of this whole LTE vs. HSPA+ debate. Basically what it boils down to in the U.S. is do you want to be under carrier control or not. As of now I would personally not buy a LTE phone (and I've had plenty of opportunity and money to do so) because they are all under carrier control and I refuse to get raped under contracts. My HSPA+ galaxy Nexus beat the living shit out of my girl friend's LTE verizon version when it came to battery life. No carrier branding thinner profile along with updates that were directly from Google without bloatware, it was a no brainer who had the better phone. The Verizon LTE Nexus was not a nexus. As far as data speeds went i am on straight talk running off of the At&t network and my speeds are perfect! I can't tell you the exact numbers on how fast, but i can tell you that i am able to show my friends funny youtube videos at the bar with out the video stopping to finish loading. Ive been able to tether no problem when needed and my navigation has never failed me. SO why should i buy into all the LTE Advertising propaganda like sean76 has???? Baiscally it's the carriers way of adding an extra charge to your bill. Google knows what it's doing and that is to maintain control over their device something they would not be able to do in America if they again released LTE variants.

JevyJav · Nov 5, 2012

I won't trade battery life extra money in my pocket and freedom to do as i please with my device for a couple extra MBS down. Plus i dont think we've ever seen a phone this powerful and good looking for this unsubsidized price tag.

The folks at Google know what they're doing and i for one appreciate the effort.

Stop whining over LTE if you want an LTE phone so bad sign a contract and grab one!

Even if LTE was available on unlocked services i think i would still stick with HSPA+ for battery life alone.

I owned one 4g phone in my life last time i was on a contract, and i rarely ever cut the 4g on for the simple fact that my phone would then heat up and my battery life would plummet.

Maybe you guys are all scared because you are thinking HSPA+ is like Verizon 3g speeds???
HSPA+ is plenty faster.

Quit ur bitching and tell Google thankyou. $350 HSPA+ HD S4 unlocked woooooooooow!

sean76 · Nov 5, 2012

JevyJav said:
I won't trade battery life extra money in my pocket and freedom to do as i please with my device for a couple extra MBS down. Plus i dont think we've ever seen a phone this powerful and good looking for this unsubsidized price tag.

The folks at Google know what they're doing and i for one appreciate the effort.

Stop whining over LTE if you want an LTE phone so bad sign a contract and grab one!

Even if LTE was available on unlocked services i think i would still stick with HSPA+ for battery life alone.

I owned one 4g phone in my life last time i was on a contract, and i rarely ever cut the 4g on for the simple fact that my phone would then heat up and my battery life would plummet.

Maybe you guys are all scared because you are thinking HSPA+ is like Verizon 3g speeds???
HSPA+ is plenty faster.

Quit ur bitching and tell Google thankyou. $350 HSPA+ HD S4 unlocked woooooooooow!

Relax pal, it's cool that its unlocked and all, however depending where you live LTE is great! If you think there's bitching in here, wait until every reviewer gets a hold of it, the one con against it will be that there's no LTE. Which boils down to people talking about what it doesn't have instead of talking about what it does have.

jerofld · Nov 5, 2012

Ok, so I removed a single post for the political discourse involved in it. With the upcoming US elections, tensions are high and we don't want that spilling out on the forums. At least not outside of the Politics and Current Affairs forum.

On second note, a few of these posts are borderline. Both HSPA+ and LTE technologies have their upsides and downsides. A good comparison of the two can be found here: http://www.androidauthority.com/hspa-vs-lte-which-one-is-better-78120/

With that said, please let's drop the back and forth about being fanboys and demanding quotes. That does not help the conversation. Thanks!

LTE knocks that invariably mention the iPhone...

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