The Return of the Micro SD slot?

all i know is the only working root option on the S4 disabled Knox. after that the 4G quit, i could only use 1x. it was perfectly fine before that. all i did was remove the OTA apk that nagged me. the rest came shortly after i did that. i cannot risk it on the new Note 3 as i cannot get a replacement (root kills the warranty and i am sure the insurance won't do anything if it breaks 4G)

you don't realize i live in an area where the only internet access is via 4G LTE. losing that and having no recourse would totally disconnect me from the world.

as MikeDT just pointed out, yea that eFuse. no doubt it had something to do with the loss of 4G and even the slower 3G.

nickdalzell said:

i am set in my ways. it has never failed me before. the other issue is that no other music app can do what the Samsung one can. the Samsung one offers tons of features not available in another player. what i cannot grasp is why you would expect me to give up features i use to work around an issue that should never even exist! i remember when Android lovers hated Apple for not giving us an SD Slot, but when Google does it, you fail to notice how similar that policy is.

Click to expand...

I don't know how I'm supposed to be a mind reader about your preference for that Samsung app.

As for it being the perfect music app for you with features found nowhere else -

Ok.

You chose the Samsung, not me.

Perhaps the same thing that makes you a mind reader of me justifies to you what else I think and notice about Google and Apple but I have news for you -

I'm really sick of the attitude you cop when you accuse me of thinking things you know nothing about.

I'd appreciate it if you stop, thanks.

I said earlier that I was complaining about SD card changes in Android over a year ago.

Try using what I said I think instead of other.

my apologies. i was just a bit miffed about the 'use another music app'. the Samsung Music app does things no other can. it even has voice control which works wonders while driving. my apologies if i did not make that clear before. the UI of the Samsung Music app also does not conform the the hideous flat design fad that is taking over these days.

I Chose Samsung for a reason. when iOS 7 killed Apple in my mindset, i went to the only solution at the time that offered a UI that i felt was beautiful and did justice to the screen resolution. that would be the Samsung Galaxy S3. i then got Samsung tablets so i had the consistent UI across devices like i had with Apple before iOS 7. i got the Note 3 as it offers another feature i find useable these days that saves fingerprints while also adding in additional function-the S-pen. the larger screen will reduce my need for carrying around a separate e-Reader or tablet when i choose to read books. the UI has never changed enough to bother me.

Now, if another Android handset maker offered a similar UI, and full SD card support, i'd be happy to know. i don't buy Samsung for the name. they currently (at least until KitKat killed it) gave me everything i needed.

nickdalzell said:

as MikeDT just pointed out, yea that eFuse. no doubt it had something to do with the loss of 4G and even the slower 3G.

Click to expand...

You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about or what that eFuse is.

You might as well blame the man in the moon.

You're entitled to your opinion but no matter how right your feelings feel, that doesn't make them facts.

nickdalzell said:

my apologies. i was just a bit miffed about the 'use another music app'. the Samsung Music app does things no other can. it even has voice control which works wonders while driving. my apologies if i did not make that clear before. the UI of the Samsung Music app also does not conform the the hideous flat design fad that is taking over these days.

Click to expand...

Ok well I feel the same way about the HTC Mail app, so I can dig it.

Sounds like a good music app. I haven't used it.

Sorry the whole combination isn't working for you on this.

well, something happened when i rooted my S4. it made sense to blame the efuse but i admit i have no knowledge of what blowing it actually does. all i know is after the root completed i lost 4G and only had 1x with one bar of reception. i had 4G LTE with three bars before that.

right now i can live with the limits of not having write access to my SD Card. right now my Note 3 isn't even using 1/3 the space. i don't need a data connection or any app checking into its cloud to verify i own my music or need to limit myself to the app that downloaded the music to begin with.

but i do like to consider the future. given that Samsung's 'toned down TouchWiz' is too iOS 7 like for me, when the time comes, unless i hold onto my Note like i did my 5185i, i will either need to consider a new phone or phablet or find some workaround for the loss of the SD card support. or pray Google reverses their decisions.

my choices are limited. when my Note runs out of internal storage the only options seem to be:

1. buy a new device with larger capacity (kinda like buying a new iPhone)

2. use another music app that works around the limit (not going to happen)

3. use the cloud to store some music when you need space for other music (yea, not happening)

4. go to another OS that offers what Google took away and doesn't look like crap (open for suggestions?)

5. use Google Play (.....)

6. USB OTG (sure i would love reliving 1996 with my Compaq Aero sub notebook)

Choices 1-3 and 5 and 6 are non-starters for you, choice 4 is really a loop back to number 1.

Choice 7 - when the time comes, revisit the idea of rooting and take advice only from people who are as passionate about the stock Note 3 experience as you are, have done it, and have had zero follow on problems.

They exist here.

Ask questions about the process until you're convinced before proceeding.

i was not aware anyone here actually liked TouchWiz Nature UX? i keep getting ragged on about it (but ignore it anyway)

Still would prefer a non-root method though. rooting was the way to get around problems i had with Android long ago, but these days just causes more problems than it solves.

nickdalzell said:

i was not aware anyone here actually liked TouchWiz Nature UX? i keep getting ragged on about it (but ignore it anyway)

Click to expand...

Everyone bangs on everyone about their UI choices.

But despite that, I enjoy Android because we can make those personal choices and find like-minded people.

There's enough of us and that's what makes Android great.

I enjoy custom theming on mine.

Plus, fixing anything I hate, and it's lots out of the box with any of them for me.

I won't use Windows without administrator access, I won't use OS X or Linux without setting a root password, and I won't use Android without root, all for the same reasons.

I plan to go to KitKat sometime this year and I expect I'll get an SD card.

First thing after rooting will be to apply that XML fix for SD card support.

If makers were smart, they'd just put that in as a developer option, alongside USB debugging, and the choice to install apps from other sources.

Those all really pieces of the same picture in my mind.

Not necessarily for everyone but not the end of the world if you let a user turn it on themselves.

No, your not the only one. The removal of the sd card slot is all about control and in the end...money. If you think otherwise. Your in denial. ..lol. Google has billions invested in the cloud. Any way they can push (control) the end user. They will.
If they win out on this plan and the sd card disappears. Hold on tight to your wallet boys. Cause "free storage" wont be so free any longer....

pckarma112 said:

If they win out on this plan and the sd card disappears. Hold on tight to your wallet boys. Cause "free storage" wont be so free any longer....

Click to expand...

This plan started a few years ago and not in a small way.

It's not something new with an IF hanging on it.

You seem to not be noticing that after drinking the Google water and dropping SD card support, both HTC and LG are bringing them back and Samsung hasn't let them go.

Of course Google pushes the cloud - as well as downloading. So does Amazon.

There is no free, they're for-profit corporations.

Makers that dropped the SD card lost sales to Samsung. The market has spoken, they're joining back in to compete.

And I'd be even happier to see 64 GB and 128 GB models without cards.

I don't care how I get my storage so long as I do and it's affordable.

Internal storage is more reliable anyway.

I don't owe SanDisk anything that I don't owe Google or anyone else.

I'm gonna make one point that you all may or may not agree with and you peeps are far more knowledgeable than me so please go easy on and don't attack me.

The way I see it Android is about freedom and customisation and is a far bigger entity than Google's bubble.

The majority of us here are Android hobbyists, we generally know how to mod our phone to match our needs.
Unless you're on like a locked down Verizon device, its very simple to get your external sd working like it did in jellybean so I don't see the problem here.
For the average Android non-enthusiasts, will they really notice a difference?
(I'm not making a statement, I'm asking a question lol.
And please go easy on Nick. He used to make me throw my phone on here lol but after getting to know him as a person on g+ I've realised he's just a quirky and slightly obsessive character but a very interesting one with hidden depths and a sense of humour believe it or not!

Hope you don't mind me saying that, nick it's just that I'm sensing mild hostility :thumbup:

pckarma112 said:

No, your not the only one. The removal of the sd card slot is all about control and in the end...money. If you think otherwise. Your in denial. ..lol. Google has billions invested in the cloud. Any way they can push (control) the end user. They will.
If they win out on this plan and the sd card disappears. Hold on tight to your wallet boys. Cause "free storage" wont be so free any longer....

Click to expand...

This conspiracy theory has been proven false many times over. Google has stated numerous times that they are not removing support for MicroSD. The change in model is due to security and ease of use. Once developers integrate API 19 with SAF (Storage Access Framework), MicroSD file managing will be much easier for the vast majority of users. We're just in a period of limbo where they've taken away the traditional way of accessing it, but the new way hasn't been fully integrated due to slow uptake by developers. The real screw up here was in Google not publishing this change until after the fact, leaving developers high and dry.

And if you think this is bad, wait until you see what's coming. Once developers get API 19 down, it's likely going to be applied to internal storage as well. Hold onto your hats folks, because it is coming.

EarlyMon said:

If makers were smart, they'd just put that in as a developer option, alongside USB debugging, and the choice to install apps from other sources.

Click to expand...

This would be the ideal scenario.

Two years ago I tried a new app that claimed to be SD card aware.

Here's my exchange with the dev.

"You're sending things to my internal storage, not my SD card."

"Your settings are wrong."

"My internal storage is at /sdcard and my SD card is on /sdcard2. You think that /sdcard always means an SD card. It doesn't."

"You don't understand storage on your phone."

"Yes. Yes I do. Here's a df screen shot and a link to the specs."

"So phonearena.com said it, that's why you believe that."

"Here's a /proc/partitions screen shot to go along with the df. I promise that my model and millions more are just like this."

"No they're not and I can't fix what's not broken."

Google may be at fault for the API release communication but that example above was from two years ago. His app hasn't changed. Now he just blames Google in the Play Store comments.

You can't fix stupid.

The entire storage model has been broken for a long time.

And MTP access to a PC is the worst of it.

I wish SD cards would die already and they just fix the storage model.

But until that happens, I'm 100% for SD cards.

And rooting.

You can't fix stupid but you can make it be quiet with root.

No matter what is done here, SD card problems will continue to exist for someone.

And a special shout out to Camera 360.

You take a pic, it goes to its own folder. You edit from its folder - or you can navigate to your stock folder and edit a picture there - that Camera 360 goes and saves to its own folder.

Absolutely the right way and as I recall, was that way before the new API.

Because you don't need to fix common sense in programming.

It gets built in.

dontpanicbobby said:

Samsung never gave them up. HTC has one on the new M8. Oppo has one on the Oppo 7a and now Motorola is including one on the Moto G 4G LTE. I hope Goggle gets their stuff together and notices this trend. People want external storage and they will vote for it with their wallets.

Click to expand...

I heard Google didn't want SD card slots on their flagship phones and tablets because they were trying to make it harder to root. But rooting is probably the easiest thing to do on them.

EarlyMon said:

Two years ago I tried a new app that claimed to be SD card aware.

Here's my exchange with the dev.

"You're sending things to my internal storage, not my SD card."

"Your settings are wrong."

"My internal storage is at /sdcard and my SD card is on /sdcard2. You think that /sdcard always means an SD card. It doesn't."

"You don't understand storage on your phone."

"Yes. Yes I do. Here's a df screen shot and a link to the specs."

"So phonearena.com said it, that's why you believe that."

"Here's a /proc/partitions screen shot to go along with the df. I promise that my model and millions more are just like this."

"No they're not and I can't fix what's not broken."

Google may be at fault for the API release communication but that example above was from two years ago. His app hasn't changed. Now he just blames Google in the Play Store comments.

You can't fix stupid.

The entire storage model has been broken for a long time.

And MTP access to a PC is the worst of it.

I wish SD cards would die already and they just fix the storage model.

But until that happens, I'm 100% for SD cards.

And rooting.

You can't fix stupid but you can make it be quiet with root.

No matter what is done here, SD card problems will continue to exist for someone.

Click to expand...

This right here is another problem that Google is addressing. Typically, phones would have two banks of internal storage; one for the system and one that is user accessible. It became common to label the user-accessible storage as /sdcard (or /sdcard0, /sdcard1, /sdcardfairyunicornprincess, etc.). With API 19, Google has told OEMs from now on, their storage will be like this:

user accessible storage = /sdcard
MicrosD - /extSdCard

ALL devices will use THAT layout and NOTHING BUT. That's a change that should have gone into effect from day one and would have helped to avoid this mess.

Mikessv said:

I heard Google didn't want SD card slots on their flagship phones and tablets because they were trying to make it harder to root. But rooting is probably the easiest thing to do on them.

Click to expand...

Official word from Google was not having SD cards was simpler/less confusing for end users. Pushing cloud storage is another part of it, but Google PR isn't going to say that

Root really wouldn't have anything to do with it

It's not just Google that hates MicroSD. Koushik Dutta (AKA Koush, ROM Manager, Clockwork Mod, bits of Cyanogen, etc.) hates it.

[Interview] Koushik "Koush" Dutta On Leaving Cyanogen, Inc. And His Return To ClockworkMod

The SD card needs to go away. It's a nightmare for developers. There's too much variability here. SD Cards can be slow, resulting in poor app performance. They can come and go, or be swapped, and that results in unpredictable behavior if an app was expecting an SD card. One contiguous block of data needs to become the standard here (with different OEM SKUs for more/less storage), as it has been on iOS since the first iPhone.

Click to expand...

Medion said:

It's not just Google that hates MicroSD. Koushik Dutta (AKA Koush, ROM Manager, Clockwork Mod, bits of Cyanogen, etc.) hates it.

[Interview] Koushik "Koush" Dutta On Leaving Cyanogen, Inc. And His Return To ClockworkMod

Click to expand...

I hate things that limit choice.

I'd rather have a 128 GB phone and be done with it, but I wouldn't force that on everyone.

You'll find a small script in our FAQs forum, A Backup Routine for us all thread, 3rd post, good for every *nix we could test it on as well as Cygwin on Windows.

http://androidforums.com/faqs/697582-backup-routine-us-all.html#post5830451

It's able to figure out if a device has internal only, SD card only, or a combination of the two - and know precisely what their names are, and know which is which.

It's not difficult but it did have to use a mount query because the Google API was typically wrong on a lot of models.

I know because I wrote it.

Something similar could be deployed once at first run, or later as a setup preference if the user changes things, and then written to a small environment file that the app could use quickly on each run, along with a simple test to see if the expected SD card is still there.

What some apps lack in this area that others don't is simple - UWTB.

The universal will to become.

I have no doubt that Koush already knows all that. I also can relate to the PITA it must be to drag that around from app to app.

But I hate things that limit choice.

And it's far from impossible to do right.

Even if you just launch a file selector and have the the user train the app where things are located, it's not impossible.

of course, i find Google's excuses 'too hard for the user' as pure BS. those who didn't use the SD Card just left the slot empty and went about their day. i don't recall anyone en masse clamoring for Google to remove it for being 'too complicated'.

in a similar vain, this is also the reason for KitKat's removal of the color and signal packet arrows. those who didn't understand them, never really paid attention. but taking it away entirely affects those who did care for both those things, which is a bad idea.

Amazon only uses the 'cloud' to store things much like the Play Store has a list of previously purchased/downloaded apps. it's not really a cloud per-se, it's just a list of apps that are not currently installed on the device but were recently purchased/installed in the past. their Cloud Player is, again, just a place the music you previously bought is stored and is able to be downloaded freely again later.

Amazon would not, of course, limit SD Card access or lock down Android the way Google is doing. they would not expect us to give up locally stored media for cloud-stored streaming.

Here's an interesting tidbit, i bought some movies from Play Movies not long ago, and even if you 'pin' movies you paid for, not subscribed to, heck, even if you bought music outright on Play Music, you still cannot play it in another player, it's still in the same proprietary format that is only accessible by the Play Music/Play Movies apps. so even if Google allows their apps to access or store to the SD Card, it's just another way for them to kill off third party apps to accomplish the same thing. Amazon MP3 cannot store to the SD card and it is not easy to get those MP3s onto the SD Card where the Samsung or other preferred music app you choose to use will be able to see it. in a sense, this is again, Google forcing their apps, their cloud, their services on us. they don't want to see an alternative that works better win out. what i don't get is why Google cares whether or not you choose to use Play Music over Amazon MP3 store. enough to make one access the SD Card and block the other's ability to do the same.

It does not end there, either. Google even has the nerve to force OEMs, carriers, even Samsung to conform to their rules, at least the rules regarding SD card use and the ugly white icons up top. again, why would they give a darn if Samsung uses green? why should they care if a forked Android allows all apps to access the SD Card? what gives them the right? it just seems that Google is removing a lot of that 'freedom' that Android fans enjoyed for years, to cater to a user base who prefers something more like a Fisher-Price toy.

There is a specific device to cater to such a market of technophobes. it is called Apple. Android won out over Apple by offering freedom, open-source alternatives to Apple. so what i fail to get is why Google suddenly wants to cater to the Apple market, as they have won regardless! i think they just ran out of ideas for Android and are now simply changing for the heck of it not for any real reason that makes any sense. and when people speak against it, they find some lame way to justify it. it is insulting to even read the whole thing about the lack of SD card slots in the Nexus line, and even more so to read it about the white icons. so some people don't get why the wifi is grey and not blue? so we all must suffer the hideous white color and lack of info and do some odd hidden gesture swipe to see that info? because someone didn't know what it meant? did anyone complain about it? i don't think so. was it costing Google a customer? was it costing them money? nope.

nickdalzell said:

of course, i find Google's excuses 'too hard for the user' as pure BS. those who didn't use the SD Card just left the slot empty and went about their day. i don't recall anyone en masse clamoring for Google to remove it for being 'too complicated'.

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if you buy the excuse. That's part of the reasoning, and for those who have dealt with API 19 on a developing level, it does make sense (even if it does suck). Again, you're not the target audience for this change. You're not a mainstream user. Deal with it.

nickdalzell said:

in a similar vain, this is also the reason for KitKat's removal of the color and signal packet arrows. those who didn't understand them, never really paid attention. but taking it away entirely affects those who did care for both those things, which is a bad idea.

Click to expand...

It drove me nuts for a long time wondering what the heck it meant (the different color). It's still there, btw, you just have to swipe to see it.

nickdalzell said:

Amazon only uses the 'cloud' to store things much like the Play Store has a list of previously purchased/downloaded apps. it's not really a cloud per-se, it's just a list of apps that are not currently installed on the device but were recently purchased/installed in the past. their Cloud Player is, again, just a place the music you previously bought is stored and is able to be downloaded freely again later.

Click to expand...

You can also elect to stream music through Amazon's cloud player. And Google allows you to download your Play music DRM free in most cases as well.

nickdalzell said:

Amazon would not, of course, limit SD Card access or lock down Android the way Google is doing. they would not expect us to give up locally stored media for cloud-stored streaming.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, how many Amazon Kindle devices have MicroSD slots? Those devices are more locked down than ANY Android device. Nice try.

nickdalzell said:

Here's an interesting tidbit, i bought some movies from Play Movies not long ago, and even if you 'pin' movies you paid for, not subscribed to, heck, even if you bought music outright on Play Music, you still cannot play it in another player, it's still in the same proprietary format that is only accessible by the Play Music/Play Movies apps. so even if Google allows their apps to access or store to the SD Card, it's just another way for them to kill off third party apps to accomplish the same thing.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. Google's music works in other players (and this has been pointed out to you before, you just choose to ignore it). Also, you can't download Amazon's movies for play in another app either. Again, nice try.

I could go on and on, but I'm seeing a trend here. And I'm seeing now why most people don't respond to you. You repeat the same pattern over and over again.

1. You lie, making up FUD against the company that you currently hate.
2. Someone corrects you.
3. You ignore it or change the topic.
4. You wait for the next page on the thread and repeat your previously disproven false argument.

Seriously man, I'm washing my hands of you. At first I thought that a reasonable person could help you fix your problems. But now I'm seeing that your problems are made up by you, and if anyone attempts to help you solve that problem, you simply move the goal posts so that you still have a fake problem to complain about. No, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

well, we'll see when Google turns Android into a Apple-like Nexus environment heavily dependent on their apps.

How much storage you actually use? What for?

Google is a for profit business. Increasing demand for the cloud storage that they sell is a reason that makes perfect sense (even if a bit cynical).

The data buttons are gone from the WiFi indicator because they were using more battery than they were worth. You can still see the data indicators simply by looking at your quicksettings pane. This saves battery by not monitoring it when its not needed, but still is there and easily accessible for those who do.

On the topic of the theme change to white - you applauded getting rid of holo blue back when this was announced.

http://androidforums.com/nexus-7-20...ived-kitkat-update-ota-yet-3.html#post6295455

Google isn't going to always please everyone, but you've got to be open to change. There's things I don't like about kitkit either - and I change them to fit my needs. That is android.

This merry-go-round is...

/closed