free health care

[saptech]

If the employers doesn't give the 'soldiers in the trenches' a decent increase (minimum wage increase) they end up giving it to the CEOs...

 

[copestag]

instead of the soldiers in the trenches working for minimum wage and expecting a pay increase just for breathing.... they could better themselves and become CEOs

 

[saptech]

Wouldn't they even expect a bigger pay increase just for breathing also?

 

[lightsleeper23]

Yeah that's the obvious answer, everyone should just become CEOs. An entire country full of CEOs, wouldn't that be nice.

 

[lightsleeper23]

What a joke. Just for breathing? I'd hate to work for you if you ran a company, you have zero respect whatsoever.

 

[Gmash]

They belittle people without jobs.
They belittle people with jobs they judge not "good enough".
Let us hope they don't get hurt falling off of that high horse one day (and lose their insurance.)

 

[copestag]

our dear leader....... and even you yourselves have been preaching at us about how the economy has recovered...... how we are so much better off now

so there is NO excuse not to have a job.... stop whining

and there is no excuse not to have a well paying job..... so long as youre able..... its the willing part thats lacking

if you dont like minimum wage..... better yourself..... it IS as simple as that

I get the concept that expecting more pay for the same or less work is the liberal motto....... but thats not how things work in the real world...... put on the big boy pants and actually earn something in life

 

[msndrstood]

They belittle people without jobs.
They belittle people with jobs they judge not "good enough".
Let us hope they don't get hurt falling off of that high horse one day (and lose their insurance.)

Excellent post. Thank you x10!

 

[sntaylor]

our dear leader....... and even you yourselves have been preaching at us about how the economy has recovered...... how we are so much better off now

so there is NO excuse not to have a job.... stop whining

and there is no excuse not to have a well paying job..... so long as youre able..... its the willing part thats lacking

if you dont like minimum wage..... better yourself..... it IS as simple as that

I get the concept that expecting more pay for the same or less work is the liberal motto....... but thats not how things work in the real world...... put on the big boy pants and actually earn something in life

Sorry but health care improvements is one if the reasons you are wrong!

People in the better paid jobs are living longer, so fewer of these jobs are becoming available, the greed of companies means they naturally try to pay as little as possible, employ people on short term or 0hr contracts so they don't have to give holidays and sick pay etc.

Is great just saying go out and get a better job, its not that easy, there has to be the job available and even then there are that many people competing for them.... I stay in a small area (compared to you guys particularly) I've had to get a job 25 miles away and there were over 200 applicants!

It took me several years to get into it, and it is more or less an entry level job. Before I can be promoted,a job needs to become available first!

 

[SiempreTuna]

our dear leader....... and even you yourselves have been preaching at us about how the economy has recovered...... how we are so much better off now

The US is a lot better off now. At least, the rich are - the DOW hit an all time record high only yesterday.

so there is NO excuse not to have a job.... stop whining

Another patently absurd assertion that needlessly and vindictively maligns people who are unemployed. I mean - wow!

There are myriad reasons, ironically, given this discussion, many of which are health related.

Something you're also very conveniently forgetting is that the economy NEEDS people working mimimum wage. How else are you going to get your burger and fries? If everyone's a CEO, who does the actual work?

and there is no excuse not to have a well paying job..... so long as youre able..... its the willing part thats lacking

And again: a patently ridiculous assertion, but at least this time you allow that ability plays a part. That's at least a small step in the direction of reality ..

Ask most of the people doing minimum wage jobs and I'm sure you'll find that it's not willingness or ability that's holding them back.

if you dont like minimum wage..... better yourself..... it IS as simple as that

Not over here in reality, it ain't. Ask the 1.5% of graduates working minimum wage. They bettered themselves: fat lot of good it's done 'em.

I get the concept that expecting more pay for the same or less work is the liberal motto....... but thats not how things work in the real world...... put on the big boy pants and actually earn something in life

Once again: a platitude to disprove an assertion NOBODY EVER MADE.

What's in question here is whether EMPLOYERS should PAY THEIR WAY.

By your own logic, if you won't or can't pay an employee enough for them to live on, you can not expect society to pick up the bill.

If you can't pay your way, your business model is flawed and you need to be put out of business.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I can't speak for the UK, but here in the US there are jobs available. The old model of picking up the classifieds and firing off resumes just doesn't work. Like many dated models it's gone the way of the dodo but people keep clinging to it and are shocked when it doesn't work. They've translated this model into the Interwebs and so they carpet bomb resumes at companies and are shocked when they don't get results.

 

[sntaylor]

And back onto health care....

I am more glad of our system in the UK than ever...so stress free and accommodating!

My son has had to be admitted to hospital yesterday, first locally where he has been diagnosed with pyloric stenosis, due to it not being a hugely common condition ( 1 in 350 ish) they don't keep their doctors trained on the surgery and Glasgow us only 25 miles further up the road, he was transferred by neonatal ambulance thus morning, Mum stayed in the hospital last night, and he will get surgery today or tomorrow. Mum will stay here at all times, and the kids hospital in Glasgow has a family accommodation section I may get staying at to save travel!

We have had to sign one form in here to agree to certain terms etc , otherwise nothing!

No worries off a bill waiting us, thinking that we need to rush him out to keep charges down, how to pay for any insurance excess etc....

Yes our taxes may be slightly higher, but how do you pay for fire service and police? Doesn't hospital emergency come under the same category?

 

[A.Nonymous]

And back onto health care....

I am more glad of our system in the UK than ever...so stress free and accommodating!

My son has had to be admitted to hospital yesterday, first locally where he has been diagnosed with pyloric stenosis, due to it not being a hugely common condition ( 1 in 350 ish) they don't keep their doctors trained on the surgery and Glasgow us only 25 miles further up the road, he was transferred by neonatal ambulance thus morning, Mum stayed in the hospital last night, and he will get surgery today or tomorrow. Mum will stay here at all times, and the kids hospital in Glasgow has a family accommodation section I may get staying at to save travel!

We have had to sign one form in here to agree to certain terms etc , otherwise nothing!

No worries off a bill waiting us, thinking that we need to rush him out to keep charges down, how to pay for any insurance excess etc....

Yes our taxes may be slightly higher, but how do you pay for fire service and police? Doesn't hospital emergency come under the same category?

It'd be the same experience if you had insurance here in the US. I'd be out a few hundred bucks out of pocket at most.

Hospital services cost WAY, WAY more to provide than police and fire.

 

[Gmash]

And back onto health care....

I am more glad of our system in the UK than ever...so stress free and accommodating!

My son has had to be admitted to hospital yesterday, first locally where he has been diagnosed with pyloric stenosis, due to it not being a hugely common condition ( 1 in 350 ish) they don't keep their doctors trained on the surgery and Glasgow us only 25 miles further up the road, he was transferred by neonatal ambulance thus morning, Mum stayed in the hospital last night, and he will get surgery today or tomorrow. Mum will stay here at all times, and the kids hospital in Glasgow has a family accommodation section I may get staying at to save travel!

We have had to sign one form in here to agree to certain terms etc , otherwise nothing!

No worries off a bill waiting us, thinking that we need to rush him out to keep charges down, how to pay for any insurance excess etc....

Yes our taxes may be slightly higher, but how do you pay for fire service and police? Doesn't hospital emergency come under the same category?

Best wishes to you and your son. Hope everything goes smoothly.

 

[Gmash]

It'd be the same experience if you had insurance here in the US. I'd be out a few hundred bucks out of pocket at most.

Hospital services cost WAY, WAY more to provide than police and fire.

Key word being IF.

 

[SiempreTuna]

Best wishes for your son, SNTaylor.

 

[sntaylor]

It'd be the same experience if you had insurance here in the US. I'd be out a few hundred bucks out of pocket at most.

Hospital services cost WAY, WAY more to provide than police and fire.

A few hundred bucks is fine if you have it! And won't premiums go up in the future?(I'm assuming its similar to vehicle insurance over here!)

Hospitals will be more expensive but are just as vital! It is just a guess, but id imagine the vast majority would pay less in tax than if they had to get insurance. Everyone keeps saying that for "x"to work everyone has to have it.... Well our system ensures just that! Unless of course you are on benefits or just don't pay any tax!

I just can't help but think of the amount saved (in comparison) over the last 6 weeks with my partner needing a Caesarean and now him being looked after, even if I just take the excess expected"couple hundred bucks" id have gone over my overdraft limit and incurred charges etc! Let alone the thousands it would be without insurance!

Care for all, has to be the aim in a modern society!

 

[SiempreTuna]

Even if you'd had US insurance: would it have covered everything or would you have been left with a bill that was substantially more than 'a few hundred bucks'.

It's unbelievable how expensive this sort of thing can be: friends of ours had a premature baby and they were told that treatment over the first couple of months of her life would have cost

 

[A.Nonymous]

$300k out of pocket to people who were insured?

 

[Gmash]

A few hundred bucks is fine if you have it! And won't premiums go up in the future?(I'm assuming its similar to vehicle insurance over here!)

Hospitals will be more expensive but are just as vital! It is just a guess, but id imagine the vast majority would pay less in tax than if they had to get insurance. Everyone keeps saying that for "x"to work everyone has to have it.... Well our system ensures just that! Unless of course you are on benefits or just don't pay any tax!

I just can't help but think of the amount saved (in comparison) over the last 6 weeks with my partner needing a Caesarean and now him being looked after, even if I just take the excess expected"couple hundred bucks" id have gone over my overdraft limit and incurred charges etc! Let alone the thousands it would be without insurance!

Care for all, has to be the aim in a modern society!

All insurance policies here are not created equal. Some may have to pay a deductible of $300-$500, and be covered after that, some would be covered for 75-80%, then have to pay the rest out of pocket. Some policies have a maximum amount they will pay, some will cover prescriptions, some will pay a percentage, some will have a co-pay. Some may only have catastrophic coverage, and you're on your own for routine doctors visits. The whole system is broken.

 

[A.Nonymous]

All insurance policies here are not created equal. Some may have to pay a deductible of $300-$500, and be covered after that, some would be covered for 75-80%, then have to pay the rest out of pocket. Some policies have a maximum amount they will pay, some will cover prescriptions, some will pay a percentage, some will have a co-pay. Some may only have catastrophic coverage, and you're on your own for routine doctors visits. The whole system is broken.

The current system is broken. That much we can agree on.

 

[Bob Maxey]

From the Affordable Health Care Bill (Obamacare)

- At age 76 when you need health care the most, you will no longer be eligible for cancer treatment (See page 272).

- Page 50 / Section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

- Page 58 & 59: The government will have real-time access to an individuals bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts. (Meaning they can take your money without informing you)

- Page 65 / Section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations. (Example, the Association pf Community Organizations for Reform Now – ACORN)

- Page 203 / Line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax.

- Page 241 & 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set doctors’ fees.

- Page 272 / Section 1145: Cancer hospitals will ration care according to the patients age. (Meaning they can deny care for someone if they think they are too young or too old)

- Page 317 & 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an expansion. (Good luck getting it passed)

- Page 425 / Line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “End of Life Planning” seminar every five years. (AKA Death Counseling)

There are also a few things about what happens to private insurance. If you or your employer tries to make a change--adding more family members or coverage to provide glasses--you will be required to go the Obamacare route. And something like 30% of business owners will drop all of their insurance, so if you have a plan now, you might not have one later.

One of Obama's goals is to shut down private insurance.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Is great just saying go out and get a better job, its not that easy, there has to be the job available and even then there are that many people competing for them.... I stay in a small area (compared to you guys particularly) I've had to get a job 25 miles away and there were over 200 applicants!

How many were qualified? I know people looking for workers but all that seem to apply are people completely unqualified for the position. Like a job for welders and those that applied thought they would be trained on the job. One guy thought welding was like soldering.

And if you live in a small town, it is harder.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Even if you'd had US insurance: would it have covered everything or would you have been left with a bill that was substantially more than 'a few hundred bucks'.

It's unbelievable how expensive this sort of thing can be: friends of ours had a premature baby and they were told that treatment over the first couple of months of her life would have cost

 

[Bob Maxey]

I can't speak for the UK, but here in the US there are jobs available. The old model of picking up the classifieds and firing off resumes just doesn't work. Like many dated models it's gone the way of the dodo but people keep clinging to it and are shocked when it doesn't work. They've translated this model into the Interwebs and so they carpet bomb resumes at companies and are shocked when they don't get results.

I have more skills than I can count. Put me in an electronics manufacturing setting and there is little to nothing I cannot do. I am often told I am too qualified.

Resumes have changed. I have seen some really bad ones out there. I know people vastly more qualified than I am not have one nibble after carpet bombing the web with resumes.

Keep in mind that some companies never pull their help wanted ads. I have seen job offers going back a year or more and not only is the job not available, the company is gone.

What bothers me are some employers want too much. Like a local company that wants writers. You come to learn that they also want the writer to be able to design web sites, write code, create art and SEO.

On the other side, you have people applying for jobs they are unqualified to handle. Employers want good people with specific skills and there is little cash left over for training, so you better be able to hit the ground running.