Scion, Hyundai: Opinions? Experience? Thoughts?

[MoodyBlues]

I'm a die-hard Toyota gal--bought my first Toyota, a truck, in January 1985 and have owned nothing but Toyotas ever since. I LOVE never having car trouble! (Yeah, I know, I know, what about my dead battery?! That was MY fault, not Toyota's!) Other than routine maintenance, I've spent almost nothing on repairs in the 28 years I've owned Toyotas.

So lately I've been THINKING about buying a new car. Not to replace my existing RAV4, which I love and plan to keep until it falls apart (which could be a very long time), but in addition to it. I definitely don't NEED two cars...I barely even use the one I have! But it's a thought I'm toying with anyway. And I want something fun--as in sporty.

I read about the Scion FR-S, also available as the Subaru BRZ, and started checking them out. I like what I see! (Toyota is Scion's parent company.)

I haven't checked Consumer Reports yet, but I've seen raving reviews at places like Popular Mechanics and Motor Trend.

Does anyone have any personal experience with Scions, especially the FR-S? If so, I'd like to hear any pros/cons/thoughts.

If I buy one, it'll be the 6-speed manual transmission.

ETA: I saw an ad for a Hyundai Veloster the other day, and went to their web site to check it out. While there, I noticed a few other models, including the Genesis Coupe and the Elantra. They're all available with 6-speed manual transmissions, and I've heard that Hyundai builds quality cars, plus they have a stellar warranty.

Sooooo...I now realize that I'm probably more just fantasizing about buying a new car than actually PLANNING on it, because I'm clearly not zoned in on any particular car or manufacturer. But, as before, I'd appreciate any insight anyone can offer regarding Hyundai in terms of quality, issues/problems, the fun factor, etc. Thanks!

 

[dibblebill]

It's also the Toyota GT-86 Each of the three has its own distinct styling, so look at all three options and what's available first. Here's a good Top Gear comparison.

BBC Two - Top Gear, Series 19, Episode 3, Top Gear - Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ

Mechanically, with the Subaru engine, should do great. I'll be hoenst, though, I view Scion as overpriced Toyota's after car shopping a year ago.

 

[MoodyBlues]

It's also the Toyota GT-86

I'll admit I was stumped when I read that. But then my friend Google let me in on its secret: It's only sold in Europe. That's why I wasn't familiar with it.

Each of the three has its own distinct styling, so look at all three options and what's available first. Here's a good Top Gear comparison.

BBC Two - Top Gear, Series 19, Episode 3, Top Gear - Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ

I have BBC America on a lot, so I've seen my fair share of "Top Gear" episodes! But I haven't seen that one. Yet.

Mechanically, with the Subaru engine, should do great. I'll be hoenst, though, I view Scion as overpriced Toyota's after car shopping a year ago.

Kind of like Lexus, huh? But if the FR-S is only available in the US as the Scion [or Subaru BRZ], and I want it, I'd have to go with the Scion, since the GT86 isn't available here.

 

[Gripenfelter]

The BRZ and Scion have the same fragile boxer motor. Google it. They are failing everywhere.

 

[MoodyBlues]

The BRZ and Scion have the same fragile boxer motor. Google it. They are failing everywhere.

If you're referring to the engine idling problem, a fix was issued for that.

According to Toyota:

In a matter of weeks of detecting a diagnostics sensitivity accompanied with rough idle phenomenon, we deployed an ECU update into production and to our customers. The condition is brought on by a combination of normal mechanical variables (similar to tolerance stack up) aggressively monitored by the ECU. Dealers now have the reflash to correct the issue.

and Subaru:

Just to clarify, this is a simple ECU mapping issue that is fixed using a re-flash of the ECU and it is an extremely rare condition found in a small number of US Subaru BRZ vehicles. Customers will be alerted to the issue by a check engine light.

The condition causes no damage to the engine and a TSB is in-process.

It is not related to mileage and no replacement of the ECU is needed at any mileage to rectify the issue, the ECU re-flash is the fix.

The issue is caused through the ECUs reaction to normal mechanical variations and is statistically very small. There has already been a fix at the factory level and it was an ECU mapping change, not an engineering process or mechanical modification. The ECU mapping was too restrictive in the original mapping set up.

Or do you mean something else?

 

[Gripenfelter]

If you're referring to the engine idling problem, a fix was issued for that.

According to Toyota:


and Subaru:


Or do you mean something else?

There are people seeing complete engine failures not related to PCM issues.

 

[dibblebill]

I'll admit I was stumped when I read that. But then my friend Google let me in on its secret: It's only sold in Europe. That's why I wasn't familiar with it.


I have BBC America on a lot, so I've seen my fair share of "Top Gear" episodes! But I haven't seen that one. Yet.


Kind of like Lexus, huh? But if the FR-S is only available in the US as the Scion [or Subaru BRZ], and I want it, I'd have to go with the Scion, since the GT86 isn't available here.

You can get the GT86 in the States. I've seen 4 in North Carolina.

 

[MoodyBlues]

You can get the GT86 in the States. I've seen 4 in North Carolina.

It's not listed on Toyota's list of vehicles.

 

[dibblebill]

It's not listed on Toyota's list of vehicles.

Maybe they got it special ordered? I was puzzled, too, as I'd thought the same exact thing, but I've seen several distinctly marked Toyota GT86's.

 

[MoodyBlues]

Maybe they got it special ordered? I was puzzled, too, as I'd thought the same exact thing, but I've seen several distinctly marked Toyota GT86's.

Interesting.

Up until now I've never LOOKED for any--didn't even know they existed--so I have no idea if I've ever seen any. But I'll be on the lookout now!

I can't help wondering why anyone would special order them from overseas, though. I could see--and have actually thought about--doing that in order to get a new RAV4, as they're no longer offered with manual transmissions in the US. But why get a GT86 from abroad when the Scion FR-S and/or the Subaru BRZ are available here and, as far as I know, have all the same options available?

 

[dibblebill]

They don't quite have all the same options. Each has its own little internal quirks in hardware and electronics and trim.

 

[MoodyBlues]

They don't quite have all the same options. Each has its own little internal quirks in hardware and electronics and trim.

But enough to justify the expense of buying/shipping from overseas? I mean, we're not talking about a Lamborghini or Ferrari or some other really expensive car that might need to be special ordered to suit the customer--and whose customers don't even blink at the extra expense from buying overseas!

 

[dibblebill]

Well, those companies will ship it to-order in any colour you ask for with no extra charge (Ferrari does, at least)

I hoenstly don't know if they were imports or if they somehow just got their hands on US models. I see far more FRS/BRZ badged ones.

Also, I'd love to have one... If I fit inside. Being 193cm tall puts restrictions on cars I fit into.

 

[MoodyBlues]

Well, those companies will ship it to-order in any colour you ask for with no extra charge (Ferrari does, at least)

And the next time I find a spare million+ dollars floating around my spare change pocket, I'm getting one! :laugh:

I hoenstly don't know if they were imports or if they somehow just got their hands on US models. I see far more FRS/BRZ badged ones.

Also, I'd love to have one... If I fit inside. Being 193cm tall puts restrictions on cars I fit into.

That reminds me of my [now deceased] dear friend who was 6'4" and 325 pounds [of muscle, not fat], a Marine veteran. He could squeeze into my RAV4 with the driver's seat moved back as far as it would go, but his GIANT feet had a hell of a time with the pedals. His clutch foot would end up on the brake, his brake foot on the clutch...very difficult driving like that.

 

[dibblebill]

And the next time I find a spare million+ dollars floating around my spare change pocket, I'm getting one! :laugh:


That reminds me of my [now deceased] dear friend who was 6'4" and 325 pounds [of muscle, not fat], a Marine veteran. He could squeeze into my RAV4 with the driver's seat moved back as far as it would go, but his GIANT feet had a hell of a time with the pedals. His clutch foot would end up on the brake, his brake foot on the clutch...very difficult driving like that.

Its the reason I see a lot of athletes with money go for Audi A8's. Its one of the few luxury cars with power that tall people fit into.

 

[MoodyBlues]

Bumping, because I changed its title and edited my OP.

 

[dibblebill]

The Veloster, in my experience, has a horribly enormous blind spot in the back-right... But from what I hear, the Veloster Turbo is fun to drive. Myself, I almost put out for a Hyundai Genesis instead of my VW Jetta. That Genesis cranks some mean power out of its V6 if you get the GT model- it can out-strip a Camaro and Challenger in a quarter mile drag. Even the inline 4 is nice. I would've got one if they were a bit cheaper.

Have you looked at the VW GLI? 200 brake horsepower and 230 pound feet of torque.

 

[MoodyBlues]

The Veloster, in my experience, has a horribly enormous blind spot in the back-right...

That's not good!

But from what I hear, the Veloster Turbo is fun to drive. Myself, I almost put out for a Hyundai Genesis instead of my VW Jetta. That Genesis cranks some mean power out of its V6 if you get the GT model- it can out-strip a Camaro and Challenger in a quarter mile drag. Even the inline 4 is nice. I would've got one if they were a bit cheaper.

Okay, that's good to know.

Have you looked at the VW GLI? 200 brake horsepower and 230 pound feet of torque.

I don't see a GLI on VW's site. Are you referring to the Jetta GLI? Regardless, no, I hadn't looked at, or thought about, VW in general. How are they in terms of quality, warranty, etc.?

 

[dibblebill]

That's not good!

Okay, that's good to know.


I don't see a GLI on VW's site. Are you referring to the Jetta GLI? Regardless, no, I hadn't looked at, or thought about, VW in general. How are they in terms of quality, warranty, etc.?

The Jetta GLI. The one car that made me question if I got the right car.

I drive a Jetta TDI and my old housemate a Golf R. We've had no issues with reliability or quality, and warranty repairs have always been taken care of quick. One thing- the road hazard wheel and tire warranty is hit and miss. Make sure you ask for clarification. I have a review of my Jetta here:
Dibble's Nibbles: My Jetta... DAS AUTO!

I love my VW. My fiance's got a Dodge Dart, and while it has a superior media center, I much prefer the Jetta.

EDIT: Also remember I'm a giant- a blind spot for me might either A) not exist for others or B) move to a different place

 

[Gmash]

The Genesis coupe is in a whole different category than the Elantra or the Veloster. The Elantra is a good inexpensive car, the Veloster is a quirky, fun type of car, but the Genesis coupe is a serious beast.

 

[MoodyBlues]

The Genesis coupe is in a whole different category than the Elantra or the Veloster. The Elantra is a good inexpensive car, the Veloster is a quirky, fun type of car

Sounds good.

but the Genesis coupe is a serious beast.

But in a good way, right? And are you referring to any specific configuration? I'd most likely go with the Genesis Coupe 2.0T (because my vehicle cannot have any leather in it), so it'd have:

. 274 hp 2.0L Turbo DOHC 4-cylinder engine
. 6-speed close-ratio manual transmission

 

[Gmash]

Sounds good.


But in a good way, right? And are you referring to any specific configuration? I'd most likely go with the Genesis Coupe 2.0T (because my vehicle cannot have any leather in it), so it'd have:

. 274 hp 2.0L Turbo DOHC 4-cylinder engine
. 6-speed close-ratio manual transmission

Yes, in a good way.
Of course, the bigger engine would be even beast-lier lol, but 274 horsepower through a manual tranny should get you where you need to go in a hurry.

 

[dibblebill]

On top of that, its rear wheel drive. I'd still love to have a V6 Tiburon/Coupe/Tuscani, though (depends on what country you lived in as to its name). My fiance had a I4 Tiburon and even that was loads of fun. Those were Front-Wheel-Drive.

I'd LOVE to get my hands on a Genesis 3.8 Track, but... Income.

 

[MoodyBlues]

On top of that, its rear wheel drive.

You just reminded me of something I've wondered about: I've been driving 4WD vehicles now for...*hold on while I count in my head*...14 years. First, am I likely to experience any, I don't know, weirdness? strangeness? uncomfortableness? switching from 4x4 to rear wheel drive? And since I'm planning on keeping my current RAV4, which is 4x4, will switching back and forth between them cause any of the above? For the record, although all my most recent vehicles have been 4WD, I don't exactly go off-roading in them. (Not that I wouldn't like to, but I like keeping my vehicles pristine. SOMEDAY, I'm going to buy a beat-up old Jeep and have at it!)

I'd LOVE to get my hands on a Genesis 3.8 Track, but... Income.

Income. What's that?

 

[dibblebill]

You just reminded me of something I've wondered about: I've been driving 4WD vehicles now for...*hold on while I count in my head*...14 years. First, am I likely to experience any, I don't know, weirdness? strangeness? uncomfortableness? switching from 4x4 to rear wheel drive? And since I'm planning on keeping my current RAV4, which is 4x4, will switching back and forth between them cause any of the above? For the record, although all my most recent vehicles have been 4WD, I don't exactly go off-roading in them. (Not that I wouldn't like to, but I like keeping my vehicles pristine. SOMEDAY, I'm going to buy a beat-up old Jeep and have at it!)


Income. What's that?

Income is what I don't have enough of to get myself an Audi RS5 with 500bhp.

In casual driving, you won't notice any. However, I don't recommend cornering and flooring it at the same time. Most modern cars do have traction and stability control which will override it, but if you turn those off, you can spin. Otherwise no real difference at normal driving.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Oversteer

Rear wheel drives are more likely to oversteer than understeer.