Vaccines and Autism

[A.Nonymous]

Apparently you are correct. I took a look on the FDA web site and in some cases, the consentration is about 0.003% or so. The FDA requires that all vaccines reccomended for childred 6 year of age or younger and marketed in this country contain no thimerosal or only in trace amounts of 1 micro-gram or less of mercury per dose.

I prefer to trust the CDC and FDA rather than the web.

Why the look of surprise on your face?

 

[Bob Maxey]

I thought they quit putting thimerosal in vaccines anyway... if the mercury argument is true then we should see a decrease in autism in a few short years, yes?

Not really. Some scientist or Rosie O'Donnell will come up with another culprit and probably, many kids will be misdiagnosed or it will be high fructose corn syrup that apparently contains traces of mercury. I have a feeling that the link between mercury and HFCS is a way to push the ban on the sweetener.

Not sure the autism industry will give up so easily. There will always be a reason and many parents will find something else to blame.

I tried to define autism and discovered there is a wide range of warning signs. We use to call many of these warning signs, "just being a kid." I am not sure most diagnosed autistic children are actually autistic.

Apparently, "A comprehensive evaluation requires a multidisciplinary team, including a psychologist, neurologist, psychiatrist, speech therapist, and other professionals who diagnose children with ASD." Yet many parents read the warning signs on some web site and decide since their little ones were vaccinated, Bingo. The bad guy is preservatives.

I will not be one bit surprised if we eventually learn that either autism does not widely exist in the population or it is something else. Seems easy to simply say to a parent, "your child is autistic."

Or believe Jenny McCarthy that thinks the link is undeniable, case closed. She has NO CLUE or scientific background. No medical degree or time spent in a research lab or other skills that allow her to make any sort of serious comments on causality. She is a parent suffering and looking for reason.

For all she knows, her child is ill because of genetics; a leading "cause" of the problem.

And so many parents likely agree with McCarthy. Or the British study--apparnelty well regarded at the time--that turned out to be an elaborate fraud.

Look, I feel sadness for parents with sick kids, but I also feel sorry for the parent that seeks to blame one industry or product for their kid's problems sans any legitimate proof either way. Parents look for answers and often turn to crackpots that serve their own needs and goals rather than the truth.

 

[PH8AL]

Not to go all Spoc about it but the most logical reason for the rise in autism rates is the decline of infant mortallity rates.
Mercury? Every where this is discussed you see the diagrams and chemical debates. I never see what I think are the 2 most logical questions you can ask.

Is the dose in the vaccine higher than the culmative(spelling) enviormental exposure?
Expanding on that, the number of products we use everyday that contain at least trace ammounts of mercury is mind blowing. Even if there is none in the product if it was used in the manufacturing process the potential for contamination is still there. Think of a can of Tuna fish. Not just the funky fish but how diligent were the folks at the can factory.

If its the mecury is to blame why are the symptoms of autism different than the symptoms of mercury poisoning? Thanks to all of us who diligently recycle our electronics we have plenty of case studies around the world for studying mercury poisoning of children. The result is not autism its classic mercury poisoning. Prenatal exposure? I guess that is trickier because of the infant mortallity rate issue again.

Just my opinion. Can't give you a link to my brain for sauce (not yet)

 

[A.Nonymous]

Sadly, the causes for autism are not completely known or understood. I seem to recall there is about a 90% genetic correllation which would indicate that there is certainly a genetic component to the disease and it doesn't seem like a stretch to think that genetics is a major reason for the disease. More research is definitely needed into the causes of autism. One thing we can definitely say though is that vaccines are not a contributing factor at all.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I don't think you're qualified to speak on this. Do you know how compounds work?

Here is a helpful guide:

Let me ask what your qualifications might be? There is a poster here who is well qualified to discuss this issue. About all I can do is Google, perhaps you do that as well.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I don't think you fully understand what I'm posting; and that's sad.

There is no proof that vaccines cause autism. But there is proof that mercury is bad for you. Thimerosal is half mercury being used a preservative in vaccines. Loading kids up on vaccines is ridiculous and unsafe. Any doctor that didn't graduate at the bottom of their class will tell you to space apart vaccines by 3 months to make sure there are no reactions.

I know mercury is bad for you. Few here are arguing that with you. I still wonder about the other metals in my system. Or the uranium salts in the photographic desensitzers I once used. I handled these dangerous materials and they might have afect me in some small way. I do know with my hands in selenium toners day in and day out, I might have a problem. But I toss caution to the wind and I do not care.

Mercury is a metallic element, liquid at room temp. But metallic elements are not to be found in the preservative we are discussing. Not sure the preservitive is half mercury as you have claimed. That would perhaps be toxic. Or perhaps not.

And as was posted earlier, mercury can be found in things we eat and much of it is naturally occurring. So perhaps the levels occurring naturally are actually higher than those found in the preservatives? That make a difference in your basic argument, does it not?

Do you have a source to confirm that the preservative is half mercury?

The amount of mercuric compounds in the vial is very small and it seems to me that since your kids are not vaccinated every day of the week, whatever is there might not be a problem.

Your serve . . .

 

[Bob Maxey]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Everyone who has ever eaten or will ever eat broccoli--no matter the concentration--will die, or has already died. Everyone who has kept or will keep broccoli in their fridge will die or has already died.

This means if you eat broccoli, you run a guaranteed health risk, so lets ban this 100% fatal vegetable.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I was only a chemical engineering student until switching to petroleum. So I probably know nothing. I'm sure you don't even believe the skyrocketing rise in autism. But I guess Marie Curie didn't think her work was dangerous.

Few knew it at the time, including Madame Curie. She likely considered the possibility, but nobody knew much about the health risks. Sadly, radium was once used in patent medicines as well as to make clock faces glow. Lots of workers died from applying the salt.

I do know a little something about the dangers of radium, however. It is also why I am familiar with Cure's efforts to extract radium. It is really hard to know about something you just discovered. You cannot read mamy of her papers because they are too hot to handle.

No offense, but a chemical engineering student switching to petroleum does not a medical researcher make.

 

[cmybliss]

Not really. Some scientist or Rosie O'Donnell will come up with another culprit and probably, many kids will be misdiagnosed or it will be high fructose corn syrup that apparently contains traces of mercury. I have a feeling that the link between mercury and HFCS is a way to push the ban on the sweetener.

Not sure the autism industry will give up so easily. There will always be a reason and many parents will find something else to blame.

I tried to define autism and discovered there is a wide range of warning signs. We use to call many of these warning signs, "just being a kid." I am not sure most diagnosed autistic children are actually autistic.

Apparently, "A comprehensive evaluation requires a multidisciplinary team, including a psychologist, neurologist, psychiatrist, speech therapist, and other professionals who diagnose children with ASD." Yet many parents read the warning signs on some web site and decide since their little ones were vaccinated, Bingo. The bad guy is preservatives.

I will not be one bit surprised if we eventually learn that either autism does not widely exist in the population or it is something else. Seems easy to simply say to a parent, "your child is autistic."

Or believe Jenny McCarthy that thinks the link is undeniable, case closed. She has NO CLUE or scientific background. No medical degree or time spent in a research lab or other skills that allow her to make any sort of serious comments on causality. She is a parent suffering and looking for reason.

For all she knows, her child is ill because of genetics; a leading "cause" of the problem.

And so many parents likely agree with McCarthy. Or the British study--apparnelty well regarded at the time--that turned out to be an elaborate fraud.

Look, I feel sadness for parents with sick kids, but I also feel sorry for the parent that seeks to blame one industry or product for their kid's problems sans any legitimate proof either way. Parents look for answers and often turn to crackpots that serve their own needs and goals rather than the truth.

I apologize in advance for the long winded reply. This is a subject near and dear to my heart.

I'm sorry, but I take issue with much of what you're saying here.

Yes, there are some parents out there that are looking to blame someone or something for the issues that their children have, but most of us just want to help our children live happy and productive lives. Oftimes, you need a diagnosis to do that.

Autism, like many other disorders comes in varying degrees of severity. Children can be very high functioning or severely disabled. That doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the high functioning kids. Dr's are not as eager as you think to slap our kids with the autism label. Try defining cerebral palsy. I can guarantee you'll find many different symptoms from very mild to severe.

Take my daughter for example. She has been diagnosed with a mild form of autism and a mild, but rare type of c.p. The diagnosis process as you say, was long and complicated, and the most painful thing I have ever had to go through as a parent. You are required to document every one of your child's flaws and weaknesses. You have to speak with countless Dr's and therapists. It's exhausting for everyone involved, and heartbreaking for the parents. You must be brutally honest if you expect to find an answer. Now, most people upon first meeting her have no idea that there is anything amiss. But given time, they begin to notice the quirks. Now that she's older, those quirks are more readily apparent. Socially, she's far behind her peers, which can make school difficult. Things that come naturally for most, we have to teach her, and that takes time. It's very frustrating for her to have to learn to remember to read and interpret social cues. Sure, her symptoms are less severe than many, but that doesn't make them less real.

Personally, I think the rise in diagnosis rates stems from an increase in awareness. I know many adults who, if born today, would most likely be diagnosed with autism.

As for the c.p., we are pretty sure that was caused by the hormone used to develop the lungs in utero, or the vacuum assisted birth. When the drug was administered, the link between it and c.p. Had not yet been verified. (in fact I'm not 100% certain they have proven it definitively) It wasn't until a year later that research was published. However, even had we known of the link, we still would have taken the risk. When your choices are having a pre-term child who is unable to breath, or having one who can but has a small risk of c.p., you choose breathing. I'm not going to run out and sue the Dr's and drug companies for trying to make sure my baby would live.

Again, I apologize for the long post, and these are just my thoughts and opinions on the issue as a parent who has had to go through the process.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If its the mecury is to blame why are the symptoms of autism different than the symptoms of mercury poisoning?

I would guess that an actual case of mercury poisoning is the result of taking in too much of the metal or one of its salts and the concentrations are much higher than one would see in the preservatives we are discussing. So one cannot get mercury poisoning from the tiny amount found in the preservitives.

Mercury was used for many things now gone. For example, thermometers are a problem and those that worked in the local hat factory would often suffer. Ever hear the phrase "Mad as a hatter?"

There was once an OTC medicine contain mercury compounds. Apparently, you could die from taking it with orange juice.

I still remember something called Mercurochrome. It was an OTC treatment for cuts.

Should we ever be forced to use those new lightbulbs, expect an increase in mercury. Should one break and fall into your carpet, heep your pubby away untill you have it cleaned. Your dog might become autistic.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Again, the issue of the toxicity of mercury is irrelevant as there is no mercury in vaccines. There is a compound that is made with Ethylmercury which has completely different properties than regular mercury. And besides that, that hasn't been in vaccines in the US since 1997 and was taken out of vaccines overseas in 1992, yet autism rates have risen since then. The idea that mercury is linked to autism at all is pretty fairly debunked at this point. There's just no evidence at all to back up that idea and the evidence would indicate the opposite.

 

[cmybliss]

And this is why the myth of vaccines causing autism needs to be thoroughly debunked.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/08/widespread-vaccine-exemptions-are-messing-with-herd-immunity/

 

[ElasticNinja]

Even if this crackpot idea was true, surely your kid having autism is not even comparable with them dying of a disease.

 

[zemerick]

It should also be pointed out that the Penn and Teller video mentioned early actually mentions the cause of the massive rise in autism in children. There was a reclassification of what "autism" actually is, and the new classification was vastly broader. The actual rate of autism didn't change, just who was classified with it. You can also add in increased awareness of autism itself has caused many more children to be identified with it.

So, this topic is pretty well and debunked at least 3 different ways.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Sadly, the causes for autism are not completely known or understood. I seem to recall there is about a 90% genetic correllation which would indicate that there is certainly a genetic component to the disease and it doesn't seem like a stretch to think that genetics is a major reason for the disease. More research is definitely needed into the causes of autism. One thing we can definitely say though is that vaccines are not a contributing factor at all.

Delay in fatherhood maybe a contributing factor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/h...nked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html

"Older men are more likely than young ones to father a child who develops autism or schizophrenia, because of random mutations that become more numerous with advancing paternal age, scientists reported on Wednesday, in the first study to quantify the effect as it builds each year. The age of mothers had no bearing on the risk for these disorders, the study found."

 

[cmybliss]

Delay in fatherhood maybe a contributing factor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/h...nked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html

"Older men are more likely than young ones to father a child who develops autism or schizophrenia, because of random mutations that become more numerous with advancing paternal age, scientists reported on Wednesday, in the first study to quantify the effect as it builds each year. The age of mothers had no bearing on the risk for these disorders, the study found."

A friend and I were just talking about this! Very interesting stuff.

 

[PH8AL]

Well that sure turns the whole teenage pregnency debate on its head doesn't?

Please can we all stop refering to autism as a disease, its aloosely defined group of symptoms and conditions that might be caused by multiple different diseases and disorders. Sorry if it sounds like I'm nit picking but proper terminology is important to public understanding which affects peoples choices.