Why Romney Lost

[Speed Daemon]

The stimulus helped keep us from going into a 2nd Great Depression. Sorry it wasn't a magic bullet to solve all of our problems. How quickly people forget how bad things actually were at that time.

Bullseye!

The first round of what the President had planned to be as many stimulus rounds as necessary did work, and the bona fide numbers reflect that. If the GOP obstructionists in Congress hadn't stopped the recovery cold, I see no reason why we wouldn't be much better off now if the President had been allowed to continue along that path.

IIRC the small sum that was spent on the stimulus was money recovered from the TARP handouts. It's money that George W. Bush got Congress to spend in the first place. IJS

That ridiculous chart (and the exact same patter as he did last year) that Boehner has trotted out relies completely on fortune-telling (look at the dates, the problem areas are far in the future) and weasel words that try to paint the truth as something else. That chart failed when Paul Ryan tried it, and nothing has changed.

 

[zuben el genub]

Eisenhower was a golfer.

Trickle down and deregulation doesn't work.

I just saw an article that obesity is now more common than starvation. The human race hasn't evolved far enough yet from the alpha male and bell cow to behave better. Since we can no longer fight over farm or hunting range, we try to amass fortunes and grab all we can. Reason -" if we don't someone else will get it. I have to protect myself." If this isn't true, then why are most of the survivalists ultra conservative?

I live in a town with a bunch of these people and the religious right to boot.
It does affect some commerce. If your store isn't patronized by the megachurches, you don't sell. If you don't have flags draped all over or give substantial discounts to the military, even the higher ups, you don't get any business. A lot of others, even if they have the means, resist paying a fair price for an item. If you want to see sheeple - live in a town with no damn diversity.

We have a law that any moneys in a budget have to be spent the year of the budget rather than accrued to a surplus fund. The result was, that if there was a surplus, it was divided among city employees in sometimes huge bonuses at the end of the year.
Big incentive to not spend on needed items. People wanted their bonuses. Potholes, schools, etc. still need attention.

This isn't too much different from the budget hassles. Only a certain few benefit.

 

[Gmash]

Bullseye!

The first round of what the President had planned to be as many stimulus rounds as necessary did work, and the bona fide numbers reflect that. If the GOP obstructionists in Congress hadn't stopped the recovery cold, I see no reason why we wouldn't be much better off now if the President had been allowed to continue along that path.

IIRC the small sum that was spent on the stimulus was money recovered from the TARP handouts. It's money that George W. Bush got Congress to spend in the first place. IJS

That ridiculous chart (and the exact same patter as he did last year) that Boehner has trotted out relies completely on fortune-telling (look at the dates, the problem areas are far in the future) and weasel words that try to paint the truth as something else. That chart failed when Paul Ryan tried it, and nothing has changed.

Not to mention, the whole reason we even needed a stimulus and bailouts was because of the mess he was handed from day one. I shudder to think where we would be after four years of a McCain/Palin administration.

 

[dustwun77]

Eisenhower was a golfer.

Trickle down and deregulation doesn't work.

I just saw an article that obesity is now more common than starvation. The human race hasn't evolved far enough yet from the alpha male and bell cow to behave better. Since we can no longer fight over farm or hunting range, we try to amass fortunes and grab all we can. Reason -" if we don't someone else will get it. I have to protect myself." If this isn't true, then why are most of the survivalists ultra conservative?

I live in a town with a bunch of these people and the religious right to boot.
It does affect some commerce. If your store isn't patronized by the megachurches, you don't sell. If you don't have flags draped all over or give substantial discounts to the military, even the higher ups, you don't get any business. A lot of others, even if they have the means, resist paying a fair price for an item. If you want to see sheeple - live in a town with no damn diversity.

We have a law that any moneys in a budget have to be spent the year of the budget rather than accrued to a surplus fund. The result was, that if there was a surplus, it was divided among city employees in sometimes huge bonuses at the end of the year.
Big incentive to not spend on needed items. People wanted their bonuses. Potholes, schools, etc. still need attention.

This isn't too much different from the budget hassles. Only a certain few benefit.

Yes, I remember the Reagan years, when the press routinely sneered at 'trickle down economics', until it started working.

 

[dustwun77]

Not to mention, the whole reason we even needed a stimulus and bailouts was because of the mess he was handed from day one. I shudder to think where we would be after four years of a McCain/Palin administration.

And a larger part of that mess was from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which they tried to reform but were frustrated from by the likes of Barney Frank.

 

[dustwun77]

Why the Fed's stimulus 'didn't work' - Aug. 2, 2012


"What about the argument that things would have been worse if there had been no stimulus?
The models that suggest this are the ones that said in advance stimulus would work. Again, look at where the money went. It went to consumers. Then look at what households did when they got the money. The answer is, not much.
When asked this question, I sometimes tell a personal story.
Several years ago my wife got me new golf clubs for my birthday. I was all excited that this was going to be a real stimulus to my game. So a few years have gone by, and my game is just the same as ever. I didn't want to make my wife feel bad, so I said, "Look, if you hadn't gotten me these clubs, my game would have gotten a lot worse.""

 

[ElasticNinja]

Yes, I remember the Reagan years, when the press routinely sneered at 'trickle down economics', until it started working.

What actually started working was the pumping of hundreds of billions of dollars into the economy, in a fashion which Carter could never have dreamt of. The fact that the budget deficit was increased as the recovery occurred, is what led to the mediocre Reagan rates of growth. Not to mention that this growth did not touch the bottom two quintiles, proving the fallacy of trickle down.

 

[dustwun77]

Really? Did we happen to borrow that money, by the way? By the way, if Reagan's recovery was tepid, this one is what?

And it kind of looks like smoke and mirrors to me anyway,

The Real Cost of TARP - By Veronique de Rugy - The Corner - National Review Online

"When assessing the impact of the Troubled Assets Relief Program, commentators often note that the program didn

 

[ElasticNinja]

Really?

Indeed!

Did we happen to borrow that money, by the way?

Of course. The only way to fund a budget deficit is to borrow, or steal money from other places.

By the way, if Reagan's recovery was tepid, this one is what?

Reagans recovery was from the 1970s oil shocks, and the declining competitiveness of the US with regards to Japan and the EEC (For the record, the US just stopped competing).
The Recession now is the product of policies and economics pursued over the last 30 or so years. It is far worse than anything from the 70s. Far worse.

And it kind of looks like smoke and mirrors to me anyway,

In what sense?

 

[dustwun77]

Well, let me answer your last question first. The sense in which I think the present recovery is somewhat smoke and mirrors is in the article I posted. The fact that the GAO discovered the number of banks that had paid back their government loan with OTHER taxpayer money.

Regarding the situation Reagan faced, I don't know, it sounds pretty bad to me.

Why the Fed's stimulus 'didn't work' - Aug. 2, 2012

But wasn't Reagan facing a much less chaotic environment?
It's difficult to recall now the severity of the U.S. economic slump when Reagan took office. We had double-digit inflation, interest rates were near 20%, unemployment was high, and credit controls had been imposed.



And it seemed to my untutored eye that what pushed us over the edge was the Housing thing and bad loans that the government was encouraging banks to make.

 

[zuben el genub]

Wasn't as bad as the 70's. Gas lines and shortages all over the country. Inflation rampant. WIN buttons from Ford era. Whip Inflation Now. Those of use who ignored Detroit and drove foreign cars with good gas mileage just laughed.

Marketing drives the economy. If marketing doesn't tell us what we want, we wouldn't know.

Everything has to be bigger than before. I'm looking at the housing here. Everyone had to have a freaking home theater room. Why? Before that, it was a Rec room. You need damn kitchen appliance sold. Why?

Everyone out here drives a large SUV. Gas prices jumped, and I was getting phone calls to see if I wanted to sell either my Tacoma or daughter's Tercel. "We need a gas efficient car and none are available"

Gas prices eased up, everyone started to buy SUVs again. We catch hell since we don't consume, consume, consume. You are not American if you don't have cable service. You are unAmerican if you don't follow fashion.
I'm unAmerican since I don't like luxury. Pah.

Anyone in office is going to have trouble trying to get people to believe they don't have to buy, buy, buy to support the credit industry or the manufacturers.

About 10 years ago the big worry with economists was that people weren't saving. People started to save, now the worry is people are not spending even if they have the money.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...eryone-else-pays-for-big-businesss-tax-breaks

 

[dustwun77]

I remember the odd and even gas days.

I had the pleasure of driving an older lady from Bremerton, Wa. to San Diego.
I wanted to get back to the Valley for my girlfriend's birthday.

I took a bus from SD back to Los Angeles. Next day took a flight to SeaTac, then another bus, a taxi and a ferry ride. Got back just in time to head below and put on my uniform for duty on watch as they moved my ship from one part of the shipyard to another.

Talk about Planes, Trains and Automobiles.

Speaking of which, first time I saw that movie I was on a ship in the Med. had picked it up in Antalya, Turkey. Getting there had been an adventure in itself. We started our journey there on the day of the Eastern airlines strike. What a mess.

Speaking of fads, before we were all gonna get cooked by global warming, we were going to have another Ice Age, I kid you not. Wish they would make up their minds which lie to tell us and stick with it.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Not to mention, the whole reason we even needed a stimulus and bailouts was because of the mess he was handed from day one. I shudder to think where we would be after four years of a McCain/Palin administration.

Now that I've seen the "miraculous" bank recovery that just happened to coincide with having government oversight being added as a condition of the loans, I have my doubts that there was any real need. After all, giving 8-figure bonuses to top management is a cost center that's not necessary to stave off liquidation.

The auto industry is a bit different for a nation at war, because losing that domestic industry affects national security. Still, it's interesting that Ford decided that they didn't need a loan after all, and the others paid back the bulk of their bailout money mighty fast.

Were they really bailouts, or was it a lame duck hand-out?

The stimulus was (and still is) needed for sure.

 

[zuben el genub]

They don't need those large bonuses. All that money could be put to better use by creating services that fit existing needs. Get some literate people to deal with the mortgage problem. Tailor some programs for those who are struggling, but could pay a lesser amount each month.

We've got too damn many "chiefs" hogging too many services, products, what have you, and no "indians" to support them. This isn't sour grapes, I was taught moderation, and I believe in it.

Every time I read about more of this junk - I get reminded of the French Revolution.
We didn't want a corrupt monarchy, nor a theocracy (a lot of the original English settlers had seen both) - so we opted for merchandising and marketing.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Roughly a year ago the Republican majority in Congress decided to be intransigent about a.) making irresponsible demands with the full knowledge that the responsible people in US government would never agree to harming the American people. b.) demanding that the President (who had a lot of important matters on his plate) to drop everything to accommodate them, c.) abusing the President's good faith by storming out of his office without making any effort to do their elected jobs, d.) refusing to participate in any good faith negotiations about the budget. e.) putting together a committee that was designed to accomplish nothing at all, f.) not showing up for work when there was work to be done.

That's not reacting. The GOP members of Congress are the architects of what was and still is their refusal to do their jobs.

Yes, it does look like it was done for no other reason than to make political hay out of their misbehavior by blaming the President for not doing their jobs for them. And they're doing the exact same thing (with the same old props even) this year.

It was inexcusable then, and inexcusable now.

The GOP are only for their Good Ole Boy Country Club and their primary goals are to make the President look bad (NEVER before have a president been so disrespected to this degree....and we know where its comming from), and their next goal is to protect their own Stimulus paychecks.

To the last post regsrding four years of (laugh) McCain/Palin: I shudder to think of one month of Romney...for starters, the entire middle east would probably be ticked off at more condescending "Romneyisms" and lined up all around our borders....(that was one very arrogant statement he made about the rich in the mid-east and he meant it)

 

[ElasticNinja]

Now that I've seen the "miraculous" bank recovery that just happened to coincide with having government oversight being added as a condition of the loans, I have my doubts that there was any real need.

Uhm... no.

The auto industry is a bit different for a nation at war, because losing that domestic industry affects national security.

What?? The US is not at war against the world. They could import better vehicles from elsewhere.

 

[zuben el genub]

You know what? This all started as a tongue-in-cheek discussion about the sources he used to put out his message.

Romney campaign got its IT from Best Buy, Staples, and friends | Ars Technica

Hoist by his own petard.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

You know what? This all started as a tongue-in-cheek discussion about the sources he used to put out his message.

Romney campaign got its IT from Best Buy, Staples, and friends | Ars Technica

Hoist by his own petard.

I hope that article doesnt say Romney owns BESTBUY

 

[Gmash]

I hope that article doesnt say Romney owns BESTBUY

Well, the vultures are circling Best Buy, so...stranger things have happened.

 

[zuben el genub]

No, it means he consorted and trusted "businessmen" like himself to run a campaign.

Wouldn't dream of hiring a bright young writer to communicate with the vast majority of "others" The "young" unless offspring of likeminded people can't do things the way we deem necessary.

So --- lousy writing along with "foot in mouth" -----

That's why hoist with his own petard.

 

[Prepaidguy9081]

The reason Romney lost is because we have so many people who want to get free stuff. It saddens me when youths plan for life is to "do it just right to draw off welfare" and do the minimal amount to get their. Trust me, McDonalds and Walmart are always hiring. Jobs can be found if one truly wants to work

I apply every month, at mcdonalds, walmart, target, burger king, big k, hardees, subway, and tacobell. I have copys of filled out apps and saved pages with my info in them. unemployed for 8 months. Dont assume. Makes you look ignorant. And im a college educated guy with 10 years service experience and serve safe certified.

Boosh

I want health care
[I know what your gonna say, go buy it on your own, ok society pay people above the poverty line, then you have the right to say that, till then, right removed]
I want a job
I want to work for my money
Let me please, pkease, please
America is still telling me no, take welfare.
Not my choice, its being made for me by the society you are a part of. Change is on you, not me. Get it right

 

[Rico ANDROID]

W H Y do they "always" rant about that same old line "free stuff"? It is as old as their "birth certificate" and "teleprompt" arguements. Surely they have some tangible ethics and reZons for their party....but this frivilous stuff that has absolutely no base....is starting to get commical.

 

[Prepaidguy9081]

W H Y do they "always" rant about that same old line "free stuff"? It is as old as their "birth certificate" and "teleprompt" arguements. Surely they have some tangible ethics and reZons for their party....but this frivilous stuff that has absolutely no base....is starting to get commical.

Repeat somthing enuff and you start to belive it, perhaps they think if they keep repeating everyone else will belive it too?

 

[Rico ANDROID]

I saw this "rant" in an ad at the bottom of this page.....but I fixed it.

 

[kool kat2]

I apply every month, at mcdonalds, walmart, target, burger king, big k, hardees, subway, and tacobell. I have copys of filled out apps and saved pages with my info in them. unemployed for 8 months. Dont assume. Makes you look ignorant. And im a college educated guy with 10 years service experience and serve safe certified.

Boosh

I want health care
[I know what your gonna say, go buy it on your own, ok society pay people above the poverty line, then you have the right to say that, till then, right removed]
I want a job
I want to work for my money
Let me please, pkease, please
America is still telling me no, take welfare.
Not my choice, its being made for me by the society you are a part of. Change is on you, not me. Get it right

I was on a job hunt for an entire flippin year until I finally got one. I was employed the whole time but the search itself was crazy. Id have interviews left and right and was filling applications to everywhere from McDonald's to the County. I can't believe even McDonald's wouldn't take me! I go back to order something and they have a moron who doesn't know what an iced coffee is and I can't get a job there!? But yeah, the search was tough and i sympathize with all the free loading lower class people who don't look for jobs.