Sprint gives midyear timetable for LTE decision

[drexappeal]

yea, the thunderbolt has a SIM card slot and is verizon's first LTE phone, here is a link where you can see a couple pictures of the SIM slot.
HTC Thunderbolt first hands on (with Video)

Thanks for explaining that and for the pics! I didn't realize that at all. So, I guess my next question would be if this would allow for LTE/4G phones to be used in other countries by simply purchasing a pre-paid SIM card or is that completely separate also?

 

[sikclown]

Verizon VoLTE voice and video call demo at MWC 2011 (video) -- Engadget

 

[drexappeal]

you would be able to use LTE and that is it.

cell phones are getting more complicated, right now, our EVO's have 3 radios in them, Voice, data, and WiMax, all completely separate from each other.

what your talking about is using a GSM phone, (like ATT) and being able to put a European SIM card in and use it in Europe, well that is because Europe uses GSM as it's main radio, just like ATT, so the frequencies are compatible.

now, with LTE, it uses a SIM card, but only for LTE, your voice and 3g, are still CDMA (for sprint and verizon) so if you want to use voice then you have to be on a CDMA network. but if you are talking about using ONLY the LTE over seas or something then yes that should be possible, and hopefully once they get voLTE (voice-over-LTE) supported and functional then you can talk over seas as well, but ONLY on an LTE connection.

Thanks so much. That clears up so many things and made it easier to understand in a "basic" explanation. I've read many threads and online articles, but it was almost like reading gibberish because the talk was so technical and couldn't really grasp the concepts being discussed.

 

[JunBringer]

I have a very reliable source that says Sprint has been testing, in one market, using WiMax AND LTE on the same towers. It works together. This source is a very knowledgeable tech that actually changes radiation direction and coverage on their towers in the field (Clearwire).

This gives me a huge SMILE.

 

[RiverOfIce]

4G roaming would not work today because Sprint is WiMax and Verizon is LTE. However, if Sprint starts using LTE, and our phones can speak LTE, then we can conceivably roam off Verizon's LTE towers. And I believe AT&T is about to roll out LTE service, so that means you could roam off an AT&T tower too.

Huh, no.

Sprint will offer lte at 2.4-2.6ghz, which mean you will get the same 3% degradation in signal going through walls. You will not be able to roam off Verizon, because Verizon will use 700mhz, which is 3% better building penetration with 22% more power usage.

If sprint cuts a deal to use the 700mhz, then verizon would have complete control over your sprint phone. Which apps you can use, which services you can you, and even how much throughput you use.

You will not be able to use a verizon phone on a sprint lte, because of the radio issue. You will not be able to use a Verizon phone in Europe because they will use 800mhz spectrum.

It is pretty clear that popular opinion has dislodged common sense and the facts.

Now if you wanted to make a phone that would roam on verizon's network, it would cost about 100-200 dollars more for a world version.

So here is what you guys want, you can get lte with verizon. You will pay 200 dollars more for the phone, world phone. You will have to pay for youtube, facebook, and any other service you use now for free. They will restrict tethering at the ip level. You will decrease battery life about 22% and still be sub 4g throughput. You will have to pay for tiered pricing on top of the pay per use services.


But if paying more for everything and still not get anything in return is good for you, please, just go to verizon now.


Bottom line, if sprint goes with lte, you will not really be any different then going with wimax. You will not roam, you will not get to take your phone, and you will pay more for web and services.

What service sprint provides will not change because they add new software.

Them to go to lte this early is just dumb. But of course sprint never really did do anything right.

 

[dan330]

it seems that if Sprint put a little $$ in educating the public about the benefits of wimax... they will get huge public backing!.. and LTE and Verizon and ATT will loose the 4G fight.

 

[Doomstang]

This is worth reading:

We've already heard Sprint do some talking about LTE at Mobile World Congress this week, but the company's Senior Vice President of Networks, Bob Azzi, has now gone even further in an interview with PC World, where he seems to have suggested that a switch to LTE is all but inevitable. In fact, Azzi is reported to have said that "with the spectrum holdings we have, WiMAX is not an option," and he further went on to note that even with Sprint's majority stake in Clearwire, it still only has "indirect ownership" of Clearwire's spectrum holdings. So what's it going to do? Azzi suggested that an LTE network which complements its current WiMAX network might be the answer, and he even suggested that we could see tri-band LTE phones with a WiMAX radio "velcroed on." He did, of course, point out that no decision has been made just yet, simply stating that "the question is how to keep growing," and that "it's about having a plan."

Sprint talks seriously about LTE, suggests it could complement WiMAX -- Engadget

 

[RiverOfIce]

This is worth reading:



Sprint talks seriously about LTE, suggests it could complement WiMAX -- Engadget

Just funny. Let me sum it up for you. We will take the brand new car, we already have. We will spray paint it a different color, place different logo on it and it will magically be better. Wimax and lte are just standards, wimax is made for 100,000 of connections, lte is made for 1,000's of connections.

But I love this part,

and he even suggested that we could see tri-band LTE phones with a WiMAX radio "velcroed on."

Tri-band? So just want to run trough this.

Current supported bands
824.7 848.31
824.2 848.8
1851.25 1908.75
1852.4 1907.6
========== One radio
2498.5 2687.5
5745.0 5825.0
2400 2483.5 MHz
==========Two radios
2501.0 2685.0
========== three Radios

THEN WE ADD LTE- If you wonder why lte has a hard time shifting from 3g to 4g and tower to tower, here is why.
1920 - 1990
2110 - 2170
1710 - 1785
1805 -1910
824 - 849
869 - 915
2500 - 2570
2620 - 2690
925 - 960
1427.9 - 1452.9
1475.9 - 1500.9
698 - 716
728 - 746
777 - 787
746 - 756
788 - 798
758 - 768
704 - 716
734 - 746
815 - 830
860 - 875
830 - 845
875 - 890
832 - 862
791 - 821
1447.9 - 1462.9
1495.5 - 1510.9
3410 - 3500
3510 - 3600

I did that off the top of my head, I combined alot of the spectrum that is in more then one channel or set. I also rounded up some numbers so it is easyier to type.
===================== 4th radio

Then we need to make it for att network. Because you guys what to roam around.

Then we would need another radio for the 800 spectrum.

So just to get the phone working with wimax you are looking at 4 radios? Evo has 3, so be prepared to haul around a nuclear generator to power the stupid thing.

Even if you did managed to get around all the connection nightmare, and you mananged to get a lte/wimax phone to work.

You would not need a tri band radio, as he said.

You would need a 33 band radio to get it all to work assuming you either had wimax or lte.

Tri-band radio, that is just a kick.

 

[IOWA]

Just funny. Let me sum it up for you. We will take the brand new car, we already have. We will spray paint it a different color, place different logo on it and it will magically be better. Wimax and lte are just standards, wimax is made for 100,000 of connections, lte is made for 1,000's of connections.

But I love this part,
Tri-band? So just want to run trough this.

Current supported bands
824.7 848.31
824.2 848.8
1851.25 1908.75
1852.4 1907.6
========== One radio
2498.5 2687.5
5745.0 5825.0
2400 2483.5 MHz
==========Two radios
2501.0 2685.0
========== three Radios

THEN WE ADD LTE- If you wonder why lte has a hard time shifting from 3g to 4g and tower to tower, here is why.
1920 - 1990
2110 - 2170
1710 - 1785
1805 -1910
824 - 849
869 - 915
2500 - 2570
2620 - 2690
925 - 960
1427.9 - 1452.9
1475.9 - 1500.9
698 - 716
728 - 746
777 - 787
746 - 756
788 - 798
758 - 768
704 - 716
734 - 746
815 - 830
860 - 875
830 - 845
875 - 890
832 - 862
791 - 821
1447.9 - 1462.9
1495.5 - 1510.9
3410 - 3500
3510 - 3600

I did that off the top of my head, I combined alot of the spectrum that is in more then one channel or set. I also rounded up some numbers so it is easyier to type.
===================== 4th radio

Then we need to make it for att network. Because you guys what to roam around.

Then we would need another radio for the 800 spectrum.

So just to get the phone working with wimax you are looking at 4 radios? Evo has 3, so be prepared to haul around a nuclear generator to power the stupid thing.

Even if you did managed to get around all the connection nightmare, and you mananged to get a lte/wimax phone to work.

You would not need a tri band radio, as he said.

You would need a 33 band radio to get it all to work assuming you either had wimax or lte.

Tri-band radio, that is just a kick.

I just about fell off my chair laughing. I really could not have done it better.

 

[Doomstang]

Very interesting. Thanks for the added info.
Now don't kill me, I'm just the messenger! lol

 

[twospirits]

I really love it when she posts, it makes things so much clearer, even though I may hate the answer.

So basically a tri or quad phone involving 3G/4G Lte and 4G Wimax is out of the question. Oh well, it was a short dream.

Good thread, btw.

TS out

 

[JunBringer]

Question: So if Sprint gets LTE it will have the same problems with building penetration as their current Wimax network?

 

[IOWA]

Question: So if Sprint gets LTE it will have the same problems with building penetration as their current Wimax network?

In short, yes. They would be running on the same bands.

 

[eieio]

Beceem's BCS500 4G modem splices WiMAX and LTE into one chip, sampling later this year


Beceem's BCS500 4G modem splices WiMAX and LTE into one chip, sampling later this year -- Engadget

 

[eieio]

In short, yes. They would be running on the same bands.

Not necessarily.. If Sprint does LTE it probably won't be on the 2.5Mhz
frequency.

Clear also has access to 700Mhz frequency that may come into play

 

[eieio]

And as much as I love ROI posts and usually agree with her, She is slightly wrong/incorrect on this one..

I do agree with her that Sprint should stay the course with Wimax for the next 2 years or so.

 

[drexappeal]

I do agree with her that Sprint should stay the course with Wimax for the next 2 years or so.

Maybe you guys are right regarding Sprint sticking with Wimax, eieio. Funny enough, I get a newsletter that is related to my industry (which encompasses a lot of different media, including tech) and saw this article regarding Nortel (LTE creator and patent holder) being in bankruptcy and ZTE is looking to purchase the LTE patents:

ZTE will bid for Nortel's LTE patents - FierceWireless

This may not have any effect on LTE 4G, but found it interesting.

 

[IOWA]

Not necessarily.. If Sprint does LTE it probably won't be on the 2.5Mhz
frequency.

Clear also has access to 700Mhz frequency that may come into play

Sprint operating 3 Different wireless technologies is already a nightmare. Not to mention that whole battery issue. Sure, LTE/WiMax chips can be done. But as ROI mentioned, you'd need a substantial power supply to power those chips. Your talking 5 different radios here, not to mention it's a software programming nightmare.

What do you use when your in both LTE and WiMax areas?

 

[JunBringer]

In short, yes. They would be running on the same bands.

Lame.

Not necessarily.. If Sprint does LTE it probably won't be on the 2.5Mhz
frequency.

Clear also has access to 700Mhz frequency that may come into play

I hope that's the case, but I dunno if Clear is gonna go LTE. I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[RiverOfIce]

And as much as I love ROI posts and usually agree with her, She is slightly wrong/incorrect on this one..

I do agree with her that Sprint should stay the course with Wimax for the next 2 years or so.

You are correct, they own about 58mhz of spectum in the 700 range.

But it makes me sick to think of using it. That part of the spectrum is brs-tdd allocated. It is way to fragmented. You can not pair transmit. Mimo becomes kind of pointless. But with only 58mhz of fragmented bandwidth connections would be come more problematic.

As for penetration, field testing has shown that it is between 1-15% degradation, with the average being about 5%, for the average user.

We have been testing lte, it is no picnic. We find that even though it has better penetration, it also suffers from interference. We get up 15% degradtion in areas with alot of power lines. In order to counter balance this effect, you must increase power to the radio.

I have no idea what sprint will do. But the 2.5ghz spectrum is the better spectrum for mobile broad band in cities. 700mhz is better in rural areas.

 

[dan330]

^^^^ interesting..

i so hope they stay with the wimax.. but do something about better connectivity and availability.

 

[IOWA]

You are correct, they own about 58mhz of spectum in the 700 range.

But it makes me sick to think of using it. That part of the spectrum is brs-tdd allocated. It is way to fragmented. You can not pair transmit. Mimo becomes kind of pointless. But with only 58mhz of fragmented bandwidth connections would be come more problematic.

As for penetration, field testing has shown that it is between 1-15% degradation, with the average being about 5%, for the average user.

We have been testing lte, it is no picnic. We find that even though it has better penetration, it also suffers from interference. We get up 15% degradtion in areas with alot of power lines. In order to counter balance this effect, you must increase power to the radio.

I have no idea what sprint will do. But the 2.5ghz spectrum is the better spectrum for mobile broad band in cities. 700mhz is better in rural areas.

With proper saturation, I'd think the 2.5 ghz would be the best option in the long run. It would allow for more information throughput.

 

[JunBringer]

Beceem's BCS500 4G modem splices WiMAX and LTE into one chip, sampling later this year


Beceem's BCS500 4G modem splices WiMAX and LTE into one chip, sampling later this year -- Engadget

Yes plz!

 

[Scooterman1]

As far as your phone is concerned, it's software related. It's as easy as pushing out a small update to your phone. If you're familiar with LTE/WiMax, they are not as different as you might assume (I believe it's somewhere 85% identical,) and again, the main difference being software.

There won't be a need for dual technologies or new handsets. It will be as easy as a PRL update and your phone won't know the difference.

This, unfortunately, must not be true.
They wouldn't be testing, in an entire market, running WiMax AND LTE together. From what my source tells me, and reading online, they are testing using it together. Coexisting. So, why would they be testing this in a Market area if all they needed to do is push an update?

 

[viber]

I doubt Sprint plans on running Wimax LTE combo phones

Sprint wants to get untethered from Clear, so they will run their own LTE network instead.

I expect Sprint will continue to lease service from Clear while LTE is being rolled out, with a gradual phase out of Wimax for new subscribers over 3-5 years, while those with Evo's and Epics will continue to roll with Wimax until they get new devices.

I don't really care which standard they use. I get a new phone every year anyway.

And the problem isn't Wimax. The problem is Clear, and Sprint can't fix the problem without tons of money being dumped into Clear to buy it outright or prop it up.