Root A few questions regarding S-Off etc

[Yatezy]

As the title says I've a few questions about the phone and it's workings. I've unlocked the bootloader, installed a custom recovery and unzipped me some SU goodness, now for some of the parts I'm confused about.

S-Off: My basic understanding of this is it is an extra layer of security in some of the deep inwards of the phone. I read on xda that it's best to leave S-On if you don't really understand what it is doing as turning it off can cause all sorts of problems. Now if I want to flash a new radio I understand that I need S-Off but if I want to flash a ROM does it need to be off also? If I do turn it off, can I leave it off or would it be best to switch it back on again?

Firmwares/radios/etc: I've come from an S3 and so far for some of the basics of rooting it seems a little bit easier. You can mix and match radios with different firmwares and without root. It seems that if I want to change a radio I need to have a radio that matches my firmware (obviously unless I have S-Off). Now how do I find my radio? I've read stuff about your CID and MID, what are these and how do they effect the phone? How do I find them?

Custom recovery and fastboot: As I've stated I've already installed this, and if I want to get into it I hold Power + Down to get into fastboot then select from there. If the proverbial every did hit the fan is this the only way to get into your custom recovery? In the settings app there is a tick button for fastboot, is this related in anyway to the fastboot that I'm talking about?

Final question. Since I'm now rooted can I load up any app that uses root, particularly xposed, or will I need to have it ROM'd with S-Off in place?

Sorry for the essay, there is a hell of a lot more to take in and I've jumped in quite quickly with rooting already as I wanted to restore my apps from titanium backup and since I'm waist deep I thought I'd ask as the guides over on xda are confusing me a little bit tbh.

Cheers :thumb:

 

[simes6600]

As the title says I've a few questions about the phone and it's workings. I've unlocked the bootloader, installed a custom recovery and unzipped me some SU goodness, now for some of the parts I'm confused about.

S-Off: My basic understanding of this is it is an extra layer of security in some of the deep inwards of the phone. I read on xda that it's best to leave S-On if you don't really understand what it is doing as turning it off can cause all sorts of problems. Now if I want to flash a new radio I understand that I need S-Off but if I want to flash a ROM does it need to be off also? If I do turn it off, can I leave it off or would it be best to switch it back on again?

Firmwares/radios/etc: I've come from an S3 and so far for some of the basics of rooting it seems a little bit easier. You can mix and match radios with different firmwares and without root. It seems that if I want to change a radio I need to have a radio that matches my firmware (obviously unless I have S-Off). Now how do I find my radio? I've read stuff about your CID and MID, what are these and how do they effect the phone? How do I find them?

Custom recovery and fastboot: As I've stated I've already installed this, and if I want to get into it I hold Power + Down to get into fastboot then select from there. If the proverbial every did hit the fan is this the only way to get into your custom recovery? In the settings app there is a tick button for fastboot, is this related in anyway to the fastboot that I'm talking about?

Final question. Since I'm now rooted can I load up any app that uses root, particularly xposed, or will I need to have it ROM'd with S-Off in place?

Sorry for the essay, there is a hell of a lot more to take in and I've jumped in quite quickly with rooting already as I wanted to restore my apps from titanium backup and since I'm waist deep I thought I'd ask as the guides over on xda are confusing me a little bit tbh.

Cheers :thumb:

i wanted s-off initially so i could use adaway on my m8, im one of the "unlucky" ones who can't s-off, which i now realise is no big deal, as i can get the same effect using the elementalx kernel, which allows me to use adaway flawlessly, without s-off. im sure s-off has its advantages, but none to me.

you can flash a custom rom without s-off, just need to unlock your bootloader thru a HTC dev account, and flash a custom recovery (twrp is very popular on the M8)

if you are after a custom rom, look for venom's viperone on xda, its prob the most popular M8 rom at the mo, with every tweak under the sun.

 

[Yatezy]

i wanted s-off initially so i could use adaway on my m8, im one of the "unlucky" ones who can't s-off, which i now realise is no big deal, as i can get the same effect using the elementalx kernel, which allows me to use adaway flawlessly, without s-off. im sure s-off has its advantages, but none to me.

you can flash a custom rom without s-off, just need to unlock your bootloader thru a HTC dev account, and flash a custom recovery (twrp is very popular on the M8)

if you are after a custom rom, look for venom's viperone on xda, its prob the most popular M8 rom at the mo, with every tweak under the sun.

Jesus you need S-Off for adaway? Hmm I need to look into this a bit more. Just curious, how come you can't get S-Off? I've noticed you're from the UK so I would gather we are running the same model of phone

Yeah I've spotted that ROM and I think I probably will tbh. Before I go flashing mad I'm gonna brush up on my knowledge just in case I end up in a place I don't like. Fortunately I've done all that and running that exact recovery

 

[Granite1]

I wasn't aware Adaway needed S-off.

S-off (Security-off) is getting complete control over your phone. You have access to every partition, and all bootloader securities are turned off. If you want to flash firmware packages as you see fit, you'll need S-off. Otherwise you need to flash back to completely stock, rom, recovery, everything, then take an OTA update. Just flashing roms, you don't need S-off. If you want to flash a separate kernel, you'll need to flash it through fastboot, I believe. With S-off you can flash through recovery.

Volume down and power is the way to get to your bootloader, then into recovery. You can also use ADB to get there by issuing a command. The fastboot in your settings is not the same as the fastboot in your bootloader. That is just a way for the phone to turn off without completely powering down for booting really fast. It's basically useless in my eyes, so I keep it unchecked. I suggest you do the same if you perform root activities often.

Yes, you're rooted as long as you have all the pieces of root: unlocked bootloader, Super User and it's binaries, appropriate BusyBox, Custom Recovery. If you can flash a custom Rom, more than likely everything is already included.

I believe you can use the Xpopsed Modules because you have direct access to the framework files with only an unlocked bootloader. I'm not 100% on that because I don't really use the Xposed mods, and I get S-off immediately when available.

Having S-off isn't essential, but it makes certain things easier. Plus you are in control of your device. Remember though, with great power comes great responsibility. You can bork things pretty bad if you don't know what you're doing. Just ask questions, and you'll be ok. It's pretty hard to brick an HTC device.

Welcome to root, and if you want to go S-off just let us know. We'll help you out.

 

[dan55]

Cool thanks Granite..Great info..I shall be going s off when I get time ;-)

 

[iowabowtech]

Granite explained it better than I can hope to but in a sentence...s-off allows boot to be flashed directly from recovery rather than having to use fastboot for that.

This allows for the flashing of spash sreens and it also allows the flashing of kernels from recovery. As long as devs are all using the stock kernel for their roms, this isn't such a big deal but if modified, custom kernels come into play, flashing the rom and kernel together in a single package from recovery becomes a very handy thing.

S-off also allows the independent flashing of bootloaders and basebands without having to apply the entire RUU and partition edits that come with that.

 

[Yatezy]

Spot on! Thank you

The information is a bit sketchy about it all but I'm glad my questions have been answered. Definitely gonna go for S-Off then as I like to do a lot of flashing without the need of my computer (it's a piece of poo tbh) and I don't trust myself inputting code since it is something I've never done. Although it looks like it shall need to for S-Off, but I reckon I can limp by just this once

 

[scotty85]

be careful when changing only the radio. its possible that changing only one part of the firmware will make your performance worse. you may experience slower speeds,data drops and instability and decreased phone signal. or you may not experince any changes at all your milage may vary. take with a grain of salt an claims that this or that radio made things soo much better,unless they are backed up with some sort of evidence,i think alot of the positive feedback is the "placebo affect" of having changed something

as you can see,im a pretty strong advocate of not messing too much with a phones firmware,unless you can modify all of it with a matching set(such as a full singed ruu)

also remember that with s off comes great responsability.with zero security checks,the phone will happily let you overwrite your bootloader or radio or some other important bit and leave you with a hard(read: not recoverable via a normal computer) brick.

so make sure you understand what your flashing,make sure its from reputable sources,and double/triple check the md5 of your downloads.

and if you just asked "whats an md5?" stop and google that now. there are alot of free md5 sum checkers on the net,so youll need to have an understnading of what an md5 sum is,install a checker,and make sure to use it.

holler if you have questions

 

[dan55]

Thanks scotty

 

[iowabowtech]

be careful when changing only the radio. its possible that changing only one part of the firmware will make your performance worse. you may experience slower speeds,data drops and instability and decreased phone signal. or you may not experince any changes at all your milage may vary. take with a grain of salt an claims that this or that radio made things soo much better,unless they are backed up with some sort of evidence,i think alot of the positive feedback is the "placebo affect" of having changed something

Agreed. I've flashed quite a few radios in my day and I can't say I've ever had a Eureka! moment.

 

[Yatezy]

Tbh I was thinking about this today, I don't think I will need to flash radios. I did it a lot on my S3 for two reasons, it only had H+ so I was always looking to get better download speeds and secondly the network I was on didn't have a 2G network to fall back on so tried different radios to see what gave better signal. Both of these points are now moot since I have a new network with 4G all the way down to a 2G network.

The only things I flashed on my S3 where ROMs (TouchWiz and then AOSP), custom kernels, a couple of mods and the xposed framework. Would I need S-Off for any of these?

 

[scotty85]

Tbh I was thinking about this today, I don't think I will need to flash radios. I did it a lot on my S3 for two reasons, it only had H+ so I was always looking to get better download speeds and secondly the network I was on didn't have a 2G network to fall back on so tried different radios to see what gave better signal. Both of these points are now moot since I have a new network with 4G all the way down to a 2G network.

The only things I flashed on my S3 where ROMs (TouchWiz and then AOSP), custom kernels, a couple of mods and the xposed framework. Would I need S-Off for any of these?

i dont think you need to be s off for xposed,but it makes things easier. ive not personally used it,so im not 100% sure of the PITA factor of making it work s on.

i honestly wasnt trying to talk you out of s off,lol... it does have many advantages,not the least of wich include:
-the ability to remove all visual traces of having rooted
-the ability to change firmware(just change it all if you do)
-the ability to change splash screens
-the ability to change your cid/mid and convert your device to another variant. for example t mobile version to international or developer.
-greater options to rescue soft bricked devices. if your s on and your phone wont boot,recovery can sometimes be pretty tricky.

s off is well worth the effort. just exercise some caution and common sense,thats all

 

[Yatezy]

Cheers, obviously there's that little bit of fear venturing into the unknown but I don't go mad trying to flash everything and all the lasted stuff so I will attempt S-Off at some point.

Thanks for the advice :thumb:

 

[dan55]

I've got xposed without s off and works ok..but it needs to flash itself through recovery

 

[Yatezy]

I've got excluded without s off and works ok..but it needs to flash itself through recovery

Yeah I had to do that. I had a read on xda. I'm on ARHD ROM and xposed came with that and allowed me to flash it through the recovery :thumb:

 

[shandroid]

Good thread, answers some questions I've had. I too am one of the unlucky one's who can't S-off (welp msg) but it seems like it isn't the end of the world like I previously thought.

 

[simes6600]

Granite explained it better than I can hope to but in a sentence...s-off allows boot to be flashed directly from recovery rather than having to use fastboot for that.

This allows for the flashing of spash sreens and it also allows the flashing of kernels from recovery. As long as devs are all using the stock kernel for their roms, this isn't such a big deal but if modified, custom kernels come into play, flashing the rom and kernel together in a single package from recovery becomes a very handy thing.

S-off also allows the independent flashing of bootloaders and basebands without having to apply the entire RUU and partition edits that come with that.

i am able to flash kernels (xelemental) from twrp recovery without s-off

 

[Granite1]

i am able to flash kernels (xelemental) from twrp recovery without s-off

Excellent!!

When we got the LTEvo 2 years ago, we could flash kernels through recovery with S-on. After the first update, no dice.

Since then it's been on complete lock down, hence my assumption here. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[MotoTurbo]

I'm one of those that had to get s off since im on Verizon. You gsm variants are so lucky to get your bootloaders unlocked thought HTC dev

 

[dan55]

was reading though the fire water instructions yesterday and was surprised that it seemed to say the phone should be in normal running state... rather than fast boot :-\

 

[Granite1]

You are correct, ADB commands Wil work while booted to the OS. It will reboot you into fast boot when necessary.

 

[dan55]

cool thanks Granite.... one step closer :-D

 

[EarlyMon]

Excellent!!

When we got the LTEvo 2 years ago, we could flash kernels through recovery with S-on. After the first update, no dice.

Since then it's been on complete lock down, hence my assumption here. Thanks for the clarification!

And then after a later update, you could flash the boot.img separately again for s-on. The LTEvo hasn't been on lockdown for quite a while.

Anyway -

I differ from my confreres here.

The relationships are -

System -> kernel -> (radios / PRI / bootloader)

You can and often ought to flash just radios.

If you go to a new rom base whose kernel expects them, or if you have a radio bug fix for your model, flash the radios.

If they come with a matching PRI update, flash that as well (and that's where people get into trouble playing radio roulette, the PRI matters a lot). You can usually find radios + PRI as a single flash if that applies to a given update.

Flash hboot only when some fundamental change to the base requires it. With only a few exceptions, hboot changes are just attempts to close the latest exploits. But, the exceptions to that occasionally happen.

Check the relationships in the update, don't play radio roulette and avoid RUUs unless you have a good reason. Anyway, that's what I do. I've never needed or wanted to resort to an RUU.

And before flashing an hboot, either through fastboot or an RUU, make sure that you're not signing up for new recovery trouble.

You wouldn't mismatch a system and a kernel. Just because things work don't mean that they're working correctly. Match your firmware.

 

[dan55]

mmm....so does that mean the only way around this ota is to flash a custom rom?
cheers

 

[EarlyMon]

mmm....so does that mean the only way around this ota is to flash a custom rom?
cheers

Once you're s-off, you assume responsibility for maintaining your phone.

If you don't want the contents of an OTA, you don't have to do anything - if you do then you have to flash whichever bits as may be appropriate.