America - The Falling Empire

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  1. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member

    Care to elaborate on that one a bit? Examples of what things consevatives are "backwards" on, and how?

  2. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    Your getting your wires crossed so badly it's downright humorous.
  3. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    Tell us how long have YOU lived in Canada since you seem to know how the country operates?
  4. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

    I used to live in a town in southwestern Arizona that gets invaded by Canadian senior citizens each and every winter... ;)
  5. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    I think we still got Florida on lock down, well the parts with ice rinks:D
  6. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member

    And how long have you lived in the US?
  7. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    I grew up there. My Family is still there. My Brother is in the Military.
    I lived there for 20 years then I tried moving back in my late 20's but I realized Canada was a better choice for myself and future kids.

    So you see, my threads and posts are based on my experience and observations between to the two Nations and "systems".

    Let me put it to you this way. Buffalo (Niagara Falls area) is a 1.5 hour drive from downtown Toronto and man let me tell you that you would HONESTLY think you stepped into the twilight zone.

    Upstate NY is like the land before time. Building falling down, caved in, just sitting there and this is along the highway section that takes you through downtown Buffalo.

    If I lived in Buffalo and came to Toronto, I would never go back. I do NOT exaggerate one bit when I tell you it is as different as the Sun and the moon. Detroit is the same too. Detroit has some really cool old buildings but the gutting of the state has left that place in a mess too. Both Buffalo and Detroit, you just literally have to walk across a bridge to experience a GIANT difference. Our drinking age is 19 so we get a lot of kids crossing over to party.

    Toronto is a city that is pretty much made up of the world. There are about 150 languages spoken here but everyone gets along and pulls int he same direction. If a Southern State Republican type came here they would be dazed.

    The media filtering that is put on you guys is insane. The US school system teaches you nothing outside your borders. People still think we live in

    The sad part is, 2 months ago I was catching up with some US school friends from Jr. High. I was speaking to a software engineer, she a smart woman from what I remember of her too. I told her Toronto is next to Buffalo, she said yeah...I hear you guys have great coffee since you are next to Seattle:eek: uhm wrong coast.

    So you see, if you truly take the time to read my threads you will see that I actually giving you guys answers as to what works and to avoid the bullshit you are being fed there.

    I noticed this tonight. The Republicans keep saying they want off of foreign oil that it's bad but on the other hand they don't want EPA regulations to get the car companies to make more fuel efficient vehicles thus using LESS FOREIGN OIL. So which one is it then, or are they just talking points to appease the "base". I really don't care about a party as much as I care about the person that will be leading and what their LONG TERM PLAN is.

    America was bad ass because it made cool shit and had cool technology and always making new cool shit but unfortunately your so called citizens aka CEO's and Politicians sold your country out by allowing your technology and jobs to leave the country. You gave your global competitors the keys to the house and the code to the alarm along with the blue prints and equipment to make the locks and alarm systems. I am ALL for people making money BUT as a Citizen you OWE the country that provided you that ability to get ahead. Tax payers seeded the ground. US workers got the job done BUT because some CEO felt they wanted MORE $$$ they shipped your National interests overseas.

    China now has the fastest computer.
    How will you up that and why would the chip makers stay in the US when they know the Chinese are now smart enough and can provide workers and the equipment needed. That is the sad dilemma that you now face. What is America's new cool shit to sell to the world? What does the world need from you that they can note make themselves now?

    btw- India is the largest steel producer in the world. The US Military relies on India to provide you the steel you need to make your own tanks and ships. Does that sound like you control your own security/defense? A ranking Navy Admiral made that point.

    Your CEO's made you an internal service based economy, in a nutshell you all will work for Walmart... speaking of which after the US Military Walmart employees the MOST people globally...scary shit huh?

    Anyways feel free to challenge my "rantings" or ask questions.:D

    Another tidbit for you
    China has 1.3 Billion people or more.
    GM is BIG in China and growing. They love the Buick name there hence why GM did not drop that old badge for a car line in the US.
    If you were a business, wouldn't be better to move GM to China and make cars and sell them back to America as well. The US is at best 350 million people. China has you beat by 1 Billion for a customer base. India is right next door to China with another 1.1 Billion plus people. India has produced the worlds cheapest car right now...the Nano I think they call it. Do you see where this is heading? Think of it this way for the new super powers...USA is now China and India is now Russia. Those are the emerging powers. China and India now have space flight. The US is scrapping theirs. Russia is getting by by selling seats to private citizens.
    What does America have to offer? What technology do you have left that the world NEEDS to buy from you? That is the answer as to why you will not see your job market firing up and steaming ahead. It will be a slow burn to get back to 7% I say. The lifestyle the US middle class had is over. The gap from middle to rich is growing as fast as the interest on the debt. The middle is slipping down with the poor. Sure the Tea Party says take the country back...but back to what...1950's...that ship has sailed, burned, and sunk to the bottom of the ocean. What is your competitor doing and what can you do to match or surpass them?

    What does America have to offer? What technology do you have left that the world NEEDS to buy from you?

    That is the answer as to why you will not see your job market firing up and steaming ahead. China and Germany are the Green Leaders in technology and Manufacturing where was the US in that race, still fighting with each other and stuck in the locker room. The race already started and you don't have your running shoes on because you are being trained to fight each other over the red shoes or blue shoes to wear to the race.

    You actually do have a great President. He is a brilliant person.
    If you stop and listen to his plans, then listen to Nobel prize winners in Economics from around the world you will see they agree he is on the right path but sadly Beck and Limbaugh are your other leaders and economic geniuses. Fyi, Rush makes over $100 million a year and has I think 2 jets 1 for sure. You really think he cares about you...he just needs some of you to keep listening.

    Try to google and use foreign media analsysis of Obama and where he fits into the global strategy. I think you will quickly learn why the rest of the world respects and likes the guy. It's too bad his own Nation and Citizens don't see it.

    The fastest and largest growing US business is...the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (Prison-industrial complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
  8. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member

    You keep accusing the CEOs for "selling us out". But have you actually studied WHY so many companies leave US shores?

    First off is the "labor issue". We have some VERY high wages, some mandated by government (minimum wage is now at $7 something an hour), some forced by unions.

    Then there are "regulation issues". EPA, OSHA, IRS, etc... ALL have their set of rules and regs that companies HAVE to follow. Most of which are non-existant overseas...

    There's another workforce issue: it's getting harder to find people willing to actually work. I can't count the number of people I see every day leaching off the system. Or, if they have a job, being nothing more then a mediocre worker...

    I think Reagan said it best: "Government isn't the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem"...
  9. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    Who gave China the technology to build their own computers?
    CEO's pillaged your country. Reagan was a puppet for the Banks.
    He deregulated your country. The problem is people that USE AMERICA and think and feel they don't have to give back to the country that gave them that opportunity.

    Think about it like this. Is it okay for the US Military to have Russia make high tech equipment for them or to share your technology with them. No, that's considered treason.

    Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you.
    If Government IS the problem then get rid of the Military.
    Why do you need to Government to defend you, buy your own protection?

    Government is supposed to be by the people of the people and for the people. If you do not have a central organization to manage your Nations resources and act as a unified force then what do you have. The reason your Government is overspending is because you got life long Politicians lining their pockets and being the puppets for big business that is removing the Nations resources 1 brick at a time. Why not have 10 year term limits for ALL Politicians?

    Without Government you would not have NASA and all the spin off private companies it help to create.
    See it's called a mix, you NEED both.

    Governments role is to Defend/Educate/Protect/Healthcare/Infrastructure and to seed the grounds for business to grow. Government uses the tax payers $$$ to invest into companies and ideas to get them going in which they will create jobs which brings in more taxes to continue bettering the above core Government deliverables in order to have a STRONG COUNTRY.

    At the end of the day, here you are.
    What are you going to do?

    The lechers are the lifelong Politicians, toss them out and get term limits along with donation limits capped to 10 years as a total lifetime term...oh and get that Citizens United crap repealed asap.
    You just opened the door to other countries to undermine you and you won't even see or know who they are.
  10. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member

    Ummm... no.

    Government's legitimate role is to regulate trade between the states and foreign agencies, defend the borders against aggressors, and defend basic human liberties from infringement.

    That last is rather important, and hit "Educate" and "healthcare".

    See, no essential liberty requires direct action on the part of another to happen.

    Go through the entire Bill of Rights... NONE of them require that anyone do anything. The technical term for this is "negative rights" (the government may NOT do these things)...

    What you're talking about is "positive rights": "These things every person is entitled to". Which is a fine way of looking at things like Freedom of Speech and such. however, it falls apart when you talk about education and healthcare. Because SOMEONE has to be a doctor or a teacher for people to enjoy such rights.

    Let's take education (just to get off healthcare for a bit). You have to have teachers to educate people. Those teachers have to make SOMETHING for their effort...

    What happens if folks decide they're not making enough as teachers, and quit? What then happens to everyone's "right to an education"? Or does the government force folks to BE teachers, so as to guarantee that "right"?

    The same goes for doctors, only moreso...
  11. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    I think you are missing what I meant.
    Let me simplify it.
    The Government should NOT provide education also (your kids, your problem).

    The Constitution is a framework for that time period and base for the future BUT it is a "living" and evolving document imo.

    Washington and Jefferson did not have Ipods and Nuclear weapons or hell even ball point pens:D

    If you let go of your current thought pattern and stand back an look at what I offered I think you will see my end results creates a NATION of smart,healthy,and educated people. As you know, without a strong foundation you got squat.

    *add Justice to my list of Government Functions:D
  12. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    Supply and demand. When teachers think they aren't making enough and quit hire new ones. It's how America works right now. There are waaaaaaaay more workers then jobs and no one should be complaining about their job. This is not the problem as much as it is the result of other problems.
  13. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    I read your posts and you are like CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.
    You just restate OBVIOUS things. Why don't you TRY to provide SOLUTIONS or ways to IMPROVE things?

    When your roof as a small leak, saying NO or look the roof is leaking does not keep it from getting larger.
  14. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    Since you seem to be lacking in a bit of education yourself, I'll educate you a bit. Tea Party isn't a racial organization it's a philosophical organization. The organization includes many black members. Granted these are in the minority, but so is black support for conservative movements as a whole.

    There are groups within the tea party movement that are composed mainly of racists, but racism is not part of the tea party movement.

    Umm... you do realize that we are still leading the world in a great many areas in tech... right?

    And the US still leads on Solar Panel tech... take a look at NanoSolar if you like.

    Really? What will Canada be dominant in? Nothing?

    Brilliant is a matter of definition. Many people with high IQ's are completely incompetent as Obama has proven himself to be.

    Well, thank you for your insight. To be honest, the Tea Party movement serves a purpose. It may not suit what you think the US should be doing. It doesn't push us to create a health care system that we can't pay for. It doesn't push to tax it's citizens at 50+%. It pushes to keep government incompetence from our lives as much as possible.
  15. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    Best of luck to you. The Tea Party suffered a great by not having Sharon Angle or Christine Odonell int he caucus.

    Believe what you want but History as proven that EVERY empire falls. China owns your country right now but hey, keep arguing about little things instead of seeing the bigger picture.
  16. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member


    And, if they decided to try actually damaging us with that leverage, they'd be shooting themselves at the same time, as the US is one of their biggest markets...
  17. bbrosen

    bbrosen Well-Known Member

    STOP falling for the bullshit from the CEO's. wtf are you talking about?

    America was SOLD OUT, Pillaged and RAPED by it's own so called citizens that have a badge of CEO. It is WRONG to USE America to make your $$$ but then ship the jobs overseas and the technology. I guess it was okay for them to use America for the freedoms it provides, use it for schools, use it for the safety, but when it came time to payback for the luxuries that America provided due to the efforts put forth by it's Citizens it's all of a sudden too much to ask of those CEO's to payback the country that ALLOWED them in EVERY ASPECT to get rich and live in larger than life mansions without fear. In short they shitted on the people that gave them the opportunity but yet those people can't seem to smell or see the shit on their face.

    You might want to talk about the unions and heavy handed government intrusion as well as oppressive taxes. Just saying...

    I am all for people getting rich. I believe that now, Government and Business need to work together for the BEST INTEREST of the COUNTRY. China and India along with the rest of the world is doing this.

    China uses slave labor, poisons, starves and abuses and neglects its own people.

    That is the problem that everyone seems to think you can just hit a switch and fix it now. true things do not happen overnight in the real world.

    America should have OWNED the green revolution but you are too busy fighting each other and getting smoke and mirrors from the CEO's that just want their $$$ at yours and the countries expense.

    There is no money in owning the green revolution, otherwise private companies would all have jumped on the bandwagon. The gree revolution has to come from people willing to make the changes to buy into the green revolution. Personally, i do not buy into the whole green thing. It's a scam.

    America should dominate in every kind of green energy equipment BUT NO China and Germany are at the front while America is still in the locker room trying to agree on wearing red shoes or blue shoes for the race...hello, the gun fired, the race started.

    It is sad that your own leaders get you to vote AGAINST your own financial interests. EVERY HOUSE in the SOUTH and WEST of the US should have a solar panel as part of the building code BUT NO, Big Oil controls your energy policy. I do not want a damn solar panel on my house, i own.

    Do you not see how these business or rather CEO's are not AMERICAN CITIZENS but instead are just greedy and "treasonous" people?

    ceos' are not greedy treasonous people, they are people like u and me who make people lots of money, as well as themselves.

    Being wealthy is not being greedy, nor treasonous. Besides, how much money makes one greedy, who decides this standard and why do they get to make this rule?

    A NEW STANDARD is NEEDED. Measure a CEO by how many people they hired (not fired). We do count the hires, the government counts them every month

    Measure by the quality of life they brought to the workers and the community/country. There is something wrong when someone get MILLION$ when they get fired but if you the worker gets fired maybe you get $5.

    I have never been paid to get fired, ( I have never been fired actually)then again I never made a company enough money to have them sign a contract to pay me if I get fired either...but no one is stopping you or anyone else from approaching your employer with a contract with a firing clause in it.

    It has amazed me how Americans overlook some basic and startling facts. Let's rewind for a moment and keep it simple.
    Clinton left and there was a surplus but after 8 years of Bush and Republican rules there is Trillion dollar deficits, you borrowed money from China to fight wars...btw, where are the WMD's in Iraq.

    Some were used on the Kurds when saddam gassed his own people in his own country. Others were moved to other countries, and hidden. We went to war because after 31 post surrender resolutions were broken, and saddam exiled the inspectors as well as many many other atrocities like putting people into industrial chippers feet first, his sons molesting, raping preteen girls on a daily basis, etc etc we went in...sorry if they were not humanitarian reason for you.

    The massive deregulation that occurred allowed the banks to control the country. It was a clever scam. The banks made their money on the way up, in the middle, and on the way down, oh and on the way up again. They made profits 3 times because they had George Bush and Hank Paulson along with Dick Cheney backing their shell game.

    careful the black helicopters are starting to circle...

    GET the FACTS straight, it was Henry Paulson that setup that bailout of the banks. What did they care, the party was over as it was Bush's last term.

    Please do not get into the pissing match of it was the Democrats in 2006 etc...Just look at who deregulated, borrowed from China, and who backed the banks.

    If I gave or sold the Military information to another country even if it were something simple as a "paperclip"...I could be charged for treason....ummmmm not true.

    yet if a US company takes knowledge and equipment to another country it's called capitalism. The country was sold out by the so called CEO's or "Capitalists".

    Clinton gave much info to the Chinese you know..
  18. JQwerty91

    JQwerty91 Well-Known Member

    New World Order anyone? :O jk
    If America does crumble from an economic meltdown, then a huge ripple affect will follow. One, we are China and India's number one customer. Without a customer base, the comapnies would either die or recede this many overseas jobs would be lost. Two, we owe China trillions of dollars. Without tax revenue coming from the citizens, we are unable to pay them back and that's where China is relying on a chunk of their income. On the brightside our GDP is still higher than China's. I smell martial law and the patriot act truely coming into play :/
  19. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member

    biggest markets for the moment
    US- about 350 million people
    China - about 1.3 BILLION
    India - about 1.1 BILLION
    We can leave out Europe/Africa/South America

    You are proving my point, you went from a country that MADE and exported things and technology to country that just CONSUMES. You do not really MAKE anything for example:
    1. clothes/textiles
    2. electronics
    3. cars - for the moment but those numbers will fall sharply because you can buy that SAME Volvo and Buick cheaper from China.Remember they used to call Japanese cars junk just less than 40 years ago...but now Honda and Toyota are #1 and 2. China has no copyright laws or patent laws nor do they recognize or abide by any therefore they can just copy the same car, make it, sell it back cheaper to you.
    4. steel - India is the largest supplier, your own Military relies on India to build your own ships and you not see a problem with that.
    5. food - notice the larger imports coming from Mexico and even China of all places.

    My point is simple, you HAVE history to look at over the past 30 years. Whatever you think you make, they will copy it, make it, and sell it back to you via Walmart CHEAPER.

    Whatever you can make in the USA some CEO will just get it made in India or China because they get a bigger salary and more money for share holders. If 95% of you are losing money, how many of you can be shareholders when you will struggle to barely hold your homes (think of your kids future and see if they get the same or better "deal" than you or your parents had).

    My threads are not to bash you. Far from it. It's to get some of you to wake up and STOP fighting and focusing on little shitty things. You would not be in so much DEBT if you did not have to INVADE Iran. The US economy has pretty much been driven by the WAR machine essentially from day 1. The world has CHANGED, Wars is not the new economy. Information and Technology are.
    I rail against your CEO's and call them "traitors" because they GAVE your competitors the knowledge and technology to REPLACE or DIRECTLY compete with you. China has the world fastest computer now...they did that in less than 5 years iirc. You gave them the means and knowledge to erase you from the equation and to REPLACE you as the worlds supplier.

    This will sound basic and crude but if we were opposing drug dealers, would you give me access to your customers. Would you give me access to your formula? Will you teach me how to make the drugs and how to market it back to your territory. Will you give me the tools to make the drugs? Do you see how basic this is when you look it from that point of view? Will you help me get your customers hooked on my products. Try finding 5 things in your home NOT made in China. The facts are there to demonstrate that the trains tracks run in this direction not away from it.

    Think of a pyramid. the richer are at the top.
    Now flip it upside down, that small base that feeds up to the rest are the factory workers. If a factory worker can not buy a cheap car or a house then how can the next "feeder" be bale to afford the more expensive care or bigger house. A waterfall STARTS with 1 drop of water. Wealth does not just appear by is grown from the bottom up that's how you have a top. Everything in nature has a base to support a top/growth. The middles class is that base. You are making less money and that is a FACT.

    Your parents in the 50's-60's could afford a nice little home, a car, and 3+ kids with only ONE person working (a basic type job) yet you can't do that today. Is that progress to you when you NEED 2 people to provide the income that essentially has the same or less purchasing power than your ONE parent that worked. Save the inflation bs for someone else. It's called deflation and we are living it. GREED got us into this mess and created this environment and mindset. 2% of the people owns the wealth. That number was higher in your parents days. If you live in a big city this scenario will make sense to you because the price of a home is just crazy.

    Work hard and save your money, right. Put it into the market or 401K. You pay your taxes and follow your rules BUT the people in charge of your money don't follow the rules and just look for ways to SCAM YOU i.e. recent Wall Street fiasco and it's STILL going on.
  20. Strings

    Strings Well-Known Member

    Ok... after 12+ hours of work, I think I've had enough of this one.

    Think what you want, say what you want. I'm done.
  21. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    Every empire falls? True. Absolutely true.

    Think of this, the Entire "Free" World depends upon the US for protection.

    Canada doesn't have an army capable of fighting a war on its own, especially against adversaries like Russia or China.

    Neither does any other country in NATO. Every country in NATO has been able to limit their military because the US had their back... if the US can no longer do that, then ALL nations are at China's mercy. Canada has an advantage though... there really isn't much worth the effort it would take to conquer Canada.

    I can understand why you are concerned. Once the US falls, then Canada will be defenseless, your economy will tank, and you will basically revert back to a third world nation.

    It's ok, we've been around for hundreds of years. We aren't going down without a fight.
  22. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    This thread does not deliver.
  23. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

    it delivers but you have to live within a 10 mile range and theres a $20 minimum order
  24. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

    Am I the ony one thinking - where are the nukes and blown up bridges? :D

    Anyway regarding the thread title - America has never had a real empire (perhaps for a while in early 1900's) but have partially controlled other countries - often by imposing dictators upon them, but usually through trade, financial lending, and the odd military alliance

    China is eating its way into Africa and ASEAN via aid and infrastructure projects, and it has also been lending a lot to the over consuming societies in this world (US esp.), often not directly.

    Until the US can turn a surplus (likely at the expense of developing countries :rolleyes:, its semi-empire is going to slip away gradually
  25. Frisco

    Frisco =Luceat Lux Vestra= VIP Member

    If by "America," the United States is the subject here, it is not a true "empire" in the first place.

    The U.S. is an amalgamation of little empires, business being the most influential. That particular empire is always in the background, kind of like wallpaper; you don't really notice it unless it begins to peel off, which is happening now and has happened in the past. Once it gets to a certain point, it is not replaced anew so much as taped and patched and glued back into place.

    I feel that most of the empires that make up what we call the United States could survive just about anything that's destroyed other empires through history around the world because the U.S. is not a homogeneous society, and is thus diversified enough to find success in dire circumstances, such as what has been going on economically now through three presidential terms.

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