What if iphones stayed small screen??

[mikedt]

More like a master of spin IMO. He might have done well in politics.

 

[EarlyMon]

More like a master of spin IMO. He might have done well in politics.

For less money and less influence, not sure why he'd have wanted to take a step down.

so.. from what I can see.. it proves that..

Jobs is the a master liar.


also .. since the apple store brings in so much money.
how can they give that up... going with android?

OMGZ!!!!1!! PWNIES!!1!!1!

Jobs reversed his position??!

Only frequently. Sorry that is somehow news for you. (Also btw, he's dead now.)

I'd answer your question if it weren't rhetorical - you're already convinced that they wouldn't or couldn't go that way.

But they will.

And don't be surprised to see iOS and Android models side by side - at first.

And don't be surprised to see Android apps exclusively for their phones in their store.

The Apple faithful absolutely believe the hogwash about their store being more secure.

"Android for the iPhone - done the right way - the Apple Way."

They'll eat it up with a spoon.

You're going to have to re-purchase your apps when you get the Android iPhone, Dan.

And they'll make far more than they do today.

That's why it's coming.

 

[dan330]

time will tell...

it might happen .. but not anytime soon.
in TECH years... a long time.. is longer than 5 yrs.
and I am guessing closer to 10 yrs.. if it happens.

 

[mikedt]

For less money and less influence, not sure why he'd have wanted to take a step down.

Isn't that what the Governor of California did?

"President Schwarzenegger"...hmm.

 

[EarlyMon]

Isn't that what the Governor of California did?

"President Schwarzenegger"...hmm.

So did Reagan.

Neither approached his wealth though.

time will tell...

it might happen .. but not anytime soon.
in TECH years... a long time.. is longer than 5 yrs.
and I am guessing closer to 10 yrs.. if it happens.

You know why Steve Jobs didn't always tell you the truth? To protect you from yourself. And do you know why he did that?

Because he loved you, Dan. He really cared.

And you still love him too, that's why you keep getting angry after all these years. And that's OK.

Sure, it's too late for you to have his babies but he lives on in our hearts and you can have his phone. He wanted you to have it. I think he's up in Heaven and he still wants you to have it.

And you can. And you will.

No reason to be all afraid that you're going to have to wait 10 years for it.

It's coming much, much sooner than you say.

And I, for one, am going to be very happy for you both.

 

[dan330]

would it not be so crazy.. to see in the near future...

President Schwarzenegger ....
android take over the world's communications..
start a war against humans for domination...
(*** Steve Jobs's death was an assassination from rebels in the future. They got the info wrong and killed Jobs, thinking he was the reason android became so big.

 

[EarlyMon]

Steve Jobs was one of the reasons that Android got so big.

And the new Apple is going to embrace that.

 

[dan330]

is it wrong...

earlymon scares me a little

 

[EarlyMon]

is it wrong...

earlymon scares me a little

Don't be afraid.

Your new iPhone is going to be really great.

 

[Gmash]

Nope, I'm serious.

Look at the revenue wrapup - http://phandroid.com/2015/01/28/apple-q1-2015-results/

And the profits - http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/01/27Apple-Reports-Record-First-Quarter-Results.html

Yes, they made a lot of money on the iPhones and sold a lot of them.

$75 billion in revenue - but like every other year - the next quarter the bubble will pop and they're looking at $55 billion, tops. That's going to keep up until next year.

Meanwhile, despite being a huge handset maker - they're continuing to lose market share.

Look at the success they've had with the last two years of iOS changes and this year with the long overdue size changes.

That's just flat copying Android and we all know it.

So if copying Android some gives them revenue spikes, what would happen if they copied Android a lot, as in all the way?

And look at the revenue. It's not coming from hardware sales and it's expensive to fart around with iOS to sell iron.

iTunes for Android - coming.

Android on iPhone - coming right after that.

I knew there was a 75 in there somewhere. I shouldn't post off the top of my head when I'm half asleep lol.

Of course their sales will spike when the new phones come out, only natural for them to drop down some after. Their market share might be dropping, but a lot of Android market share is the cheapy budget phones. Not much profit margin there. Apple market share is top of the food chain.
Copying Android without admitting it is one thing, but going all in would be conceding defeat. Their corporate culture seems too arrogant to allow that, but hey, they are spin masters. Is the cost of maintaining an OS really that high in the context of a $700 billion company? They're making so much money now it seems crazy to do something so drastic. On the other hand, it could be genius to do it while the media, Wall Street and most people think they're still on top. It would look desperate if they did it on a down cycle. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.
If you can't beat them at thermonuclear war, join them?

 

[EarlyMon]

No moral capitulation would be required.

Just as Kindle devices are a branch based on Android, but focused to the Amazon ecosystem, an Android iPhone could do the exact same thing, pointing to Apple's store alone.

It could carry the same Mickey Mouse app drawer launcher and anything else that they would care to add for nostalgic compatibility.

And completely snow people that they accomplished something unique. Again lmao.

Do the math - look at their profits vs iron sold. Look at their income vs iron sold.

Android for the iPhone is coming.

 

[Gmash]

No moral capitulation would be required.

Just as Kindle devices are a branch based on Android, but focused to the Amazon ecosystem, an Android iPhone could do the exact same thing, pointing to Apple's store alone.

It could carry the same Mickey Mouse app drawer launcher and anything else that they would care to add for nostalgic compatibility.

And completely snow people that they accomplished something unique. Again lmao.

Do the math - look at their profits vs iron sold. Look at their income vs iron sold.

Android for the iPhone is coming.

But what would that accomplish? They might save a few bucks maintaining their Android fork instead of iOS, but I doubt that would be significant. Since iPhone is mostly designed as a gateway to iTunes anyway, wouldn't just opening iTunes up be enough? Being just another Android manufacturer doesn't really do anything for them, and doing an Android-but-not-Android fork isn't much different than just copying Android in iOS like they're doing now. I must be missing something.

 

[EarlyMon]

I'm just offering plausible paths they may take on the way to building Dan's ultimate phone.

I reject ideas based on their pride or admitting anything that they wouldn't do this.

Their patent trolling proves that Apple has no pride beyond the bottom line - just as their shareholders insist.

Nothing I'm suggesting would lose money for them, quite the opposite.

 

[sntaylor]

Maybe opening up their store to Android users would be the the first logical move? Rather than jumping straight in to full Android experience, bring the iPhone experience to Android and get cash from current Android users?

From a developer it wouldn't make sense as putting it in Apple store is more expensive than for play store, but hey some folks are stupid and it might get more cash!

 

[EarlyMon]

The easiest way to open up begins with iTunes for Android.

I wouldn't say that people are stupid, but many are successfully brainwashed, even among Android users, that the Apple store is somehow safer. All the easier to charge a premium for that appearance.

Dijon mustard - once a cheapie that didn't sell. Market research told them to change their image and raise the price. They did. It worked. The deal got publicized. No one cared, they laughed and continued to buy it.

iTunes media access => an Apple id

That's the beachhead right there.

As for loyalty to their own OS - look at the history of OS X.

Early on they offered Parallels in their store so you run Windows in a virtual machine. Later they made dual booting Windows a native feature with Bootcamp.

Anything you needed to keep you in the fold.

Look at the original iPods - if you wanted one, you needed a Mac running OS X. Period.

After they saturated that market, boom, Windows support waltzes in and you had a choice of formatting your iPod storage as a Mac or Windows filesystem.

Complete reversal of position based on market demand.

And that's Apple's strategy - saturate a market, reverse position, open the market - they've done it repeatedly.

Android for iPhone isn't an anomalous idea - the fact that it doesn't exist yet is.

The only things that prevented it up to this point were a larger market to saturate and Jobs insane infatuation with the iPhone - in the end, he crossed the line and believed his own propaganda.

Jobs is gone. Declining market share points to saturation.

I'm simply stating that you can trust Apple to act like Apple.

The Android iPhone is coming, and iTunes for Android will be its harbinger.

Unless they pull a BlackBerry with that app and don't offer it.

Then none of this will happen.

As for too rich and too powerful to topple, there's no such thing.

How about Nokia and BlackBerry (RIM).

There's always corporate stupidity.

 

[EarlyMon]

In 2010, I insisted in this Lounge that Android would quickly rule the mobile market because it was open.

The idea was ridiculed. But it happened.

Later I insisted that within a year the iPhone would stop being a thing and become a line.

The idea was ridiculed (and I was too lmao). But it happened before that year was out.

I'm sure that many of you will find my ideas today ridiculous.

Maybe this time I'm getting it wrong.

 

[sntaylor]

I don't doubt there will be an iPhone running another os, maybe even Windows 10? Just think they might open up the market store thing first as that's where the long term cash comes from

 

[Gmash]

You can't just open up the app store, the apps have to be made for Android to run on Android.

Early, I'm still not getting the why. Are you saying Apple would sell more iPhones if they ran Android? I'm not sure why that would be the case, especially an unrecognizable version that only runs Apple stuff. Their market share is all at the top. They tried making cheaper iPhones. I never saw one in real life, and they're still not that cheap.
The iTunes thing I get, though I think it would hurt their iPhone sales some. I don't see the benefit to them of switching to Android.
Dumb it down for me.
Can you imagine the backlash from the Apple faithful? They might succeed where Kim Kardashian's ass failed and actually break the internet.
Would they really make an open version? Isn't their "walled garden" one of their selling points? If it looks like iOS and is locked down like iOS, just running Android behind the scenes, how is that better for them or anybody else?
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand and learn.

 

[EarlyMon]

Their market share is not at the top.

I have before you a pizza called the world smartphone market. Cut out a 1/6th slice. That's the iPhone share.

Everyone else shares the pizza left over.

Apple has a bigger slice than others but that doesn't make their market share at the top.

Less than a year ago, the iPhone slice was 1/5th of the pizza, and a few short years ago, it was more than 1/2.

Now, take the 1/6th iPhone slice - and cut off a sliver. That sliver is their sales outside the United States.

Outside of here, no one cares.

Every year the pizza gets bigger. It's now a bigger pizza than desktop/laptop sales in units sold and dollars.

For the pc pizza, just a few years ago, Mac laptops got the biggest slice of the laptop portion - today, it's a sliver again, look at the reports I linked earlier.

The smartphone pizza size can't keep growing dramatically in size forever. In fact, it's already started to slow down.

And every year the iPhone slice is getting smaller.

Despite this sensational last quarter, you can't say that it's ok to expect a downturn after the release quarter - projections for the next quarter put their sales down by a full third.

Down a third and dropping until the next release bump.

While the same investment houses that turned cartwheels over the dot com days will proclaim Apple victory throughout the land, the math is simple and clear.

And it says this - if they're not already at saturation, they're knocking on its door.

That is not a market share at the top where they can sit around and laugh it up.

It's exactly what you said earlier @Gmash - if they're going to make a move and not be further marginalized, they're going to have to make it when their investors' perspective is that they're still on top, not on the downward spiral that is inevitable right now.

Of their "huge" app sales, look at where almost all of that money is going - to 50 software houses making money like crazy. Forget the famous averages that the press likes to sensationalize.

Follow the money.

Btw - OS X was open until it suited them to withdraw from the open community.

They're great at selling open source and they're great at selling why they took it away.

The Android iPhone could be open or locked down at first. They have a range of deployment options open.

And hardware manufacturers ready to give them drivers for the processors and a wealth of free software to draw upon.

Cyanogen Mod, Inc. has already come out against Google and ready to make deals.

What do you think the impact of a CM/iPhone would be?

 

[dan330]

apple is still at the top of the maker game. of all the top makers of highend smartphones.
apple vs Samsung vs LG vs Moto... apple is still on top. they sell more Highend smartphones than the others.

many people want to leave apple, but don't because of their music with iTunes.
if they open up iTunes to android...
they will get some android users to get music from iTunes.
they will open the opportunity for iPhone users to move/try android.

of the people that are on android and have online music files... why would they want to try iTunes? not sure how much this is a plus?

apple might try putting android on iphones.. only as a last effort.
when their income/profit is way down. they will hold out as long as they can.
i think that is more than 5 yrs out.

 

[El Presidente]

Tied to your original question, my brother is a iPhone guy and is seriously looking at other handsets since they've decided to up size.

He's a brickie and anything much bigger than the current 5s in his pocket when he's working is too uncomfortable apparently.

His phone is basically a phone and an MP3 player and something to check the football scores when he's out so he doesn't anything bigger.

 

[sntaylor]

You can't just open up the app store, the apps have to be made for Android to run on Android.

I'm quite aware of this and didn't in any way mean to suggest otherwise, though I can see why you'd think I did.... I'm thinking along the lines of amazon app store, but Apple doing it instead. No play store access without an incredibly hard root obviously they have to get the apps etc

 

[EarlyMon]

I'm quite aware of this and didn't in any way mean to suggest otherwise, though I can see why you'd think I did.... I'm thinking along the lines of amazon app store, but Apple doing it instead. No play store access without an incredibly hard root obviously they have to get the apps etc

That's exactly one of the paths I laid out earlier.

Tied to your original question, my brother is a iPhone guy and is seriously looking at other handsets since they've decided to up size.

He's a brickie and anything much bigger than the current 5s in his pocket when he's working is too uncomfortable apparently.

His phone is basically a phone and an MP3 player and something to check the football scores when he's out so he doesn't anything bigger.

And there's the heart of the matter.

Unlike the poor Rositas in Dan's fevered, fantasy reality, none of the iPhone holdouts are crying that they hate the iPhone but are shackled by iTunes until some future poverty for Apple in 5 years.

And no one cares how many iPhones Apple sells like it matters (besides Dan of course).

The issue is exactly as you say, EP - choice.

Apple built the long-ago fallen iPhone empire on the idea that you didn't need choice, they would choose the right smartphone for you.

To respond to the need for choice, they started keeping old phones in the lineup, under the boldfaced lie that updating an older model with the new iOS revision number - minus new features - is somehow valid.

All done in Apple's favor, not consumers, and a complete mystery only to some Americans and a few foreigners still angry at a dead guy, still thinking that it's about screen size, and claiming to hate them while expressing their deep love and adoration over what they want to believe are mighty sales figures.

(Lest anyone get offended, I'm only talking about one person here, for the sake of anonymity, let's just call him nad033.)

No, the big sales spike wasn't the big screens - it was that there was a pent-up demand for big screen iPhones that had been building for years.

In other words - an unsatisfied choice was finally fulfilled.

And as Apple proved with the 3gs and Ford proved with the T Model - markets will not long tolerate a lack of choice.

iOS scales poorly to new hardware designs. Unlike Android.

iOS version number dictates what apps you can run. Not true about most all of Android since 4.0 - that's the whole point of the independently update-able Play Services (whether you like or hate the current implementation is immaterial in the big picture, it changes as often as the weather).

Android scales for hardware choices easily, iOS doesn't, Apple is not stupid, and the market demands hardware choices.

And when it hits, nad033 is going to be among the first in line to get one.

 

[Slug]

Tell me Dan - wouldn't you buy an iPhone running Android?

Hell yeah! The iP6 is a gorgeous piece of hardware... I'd have one tomorrow if it ran on my choice of OS.

apple is still on top. they sell more Highend smartphones than the others.

Maybe because every current Apple smartphone is, at least on price, "high end"? We'll ignore the poor 8GB 4S, which (like half of Samsung's range) should have been taken out back and humanely shot long ago, but even the 5C competes with some top-tier Androids.

 

[dan330]

monearly is dancing with fairies and drinking nasty fermented grape juice

lets revisit this in a few years.. and see