What makes our 720p recording inferior (imo) to the iphone, nokia n8, and samsung galaxy?

[NeoteriX]

Then comes the temptation to show it off via HDMI - and if mrspeedmaster (I believe I'm attributing correctly here) is indeed correct about the HDMI semiconductors being based on a 65 nm process, then it will indeed consume power quickly and more importantly heat up piping that lovely data out.

...

Still might not help the potential for the HDMI heating issue, tho. Might make it worse. (temptation to record and play longer movies because of the quality)

I haven't seen any fab information for the HDMI processors, but my personal testing with the HDMI out reveals that heat is not an issue.

I've sideloaded several H.264 movies with bit rates of roughly 5.5 Mbps -- a quality sufficient with H.264 to provide solid detail at a 720p resolution. Significant playback (20+ minutes) with these movies reveals no noticeable heat gain.

 

[Bomix]

Dang, that video with the skipping is crazy..
I noticed the poor quality right away.. pretty sad really, Lighting of course helps, but compared to other phones like the Iphone 3GS ..... =(

 

[KoukiFC3S]

The video from the samsung is a bit better than the evo. But the Nokia video blew me away. That is amazing.

I work in the television industry, so i have a bit of a background in this stuff. The main thing limiting the evo is the codec and bitrate. 3gp is an old codec that needs a lot of bitrate to look good with. As many have stated, an h264 video at 4000kbps looks fantastic. The image sensor in the camera has a little to do with it, but if you look at the still pictures from this camera, they look pretty decent. So again, the bottleneck here is the compression. Hopefully there will be a hack to fix this. Until then, im recording at 800x480, as the video looks much smoother and less compressed.

Some people are talking about the memory card being the bottleneck. Well here is a simple question to figure that out: Do people with class 6 cards have better looking video? I still have the stock card, so if somebody who has replaced their card can take a video with that, and another with the stock card, that would be great. I would totally purchase a new card if it helped the video.

I use a class 6 and the quality is the same as the class 2 samples ive seen.

 

[EarlyMon]

I haven't seen any fab information for the HDMI processors, but my personal testing with the HDMI out reveals that heat is not an issue.

I've sideloaded several H.264 movies with bit rates of roughly 5.5 Mbps -- a quality sufficient with H.264 to provide solid detail at a 720p resolution. Significant playback (20+ minutes) with these movies reveals no noticeable heat gain.

One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.

Many thanks!!!!

 

[NeoteriX]

One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.

Many thanks!!!!

I forgot to post the link to my documentation of this as well: http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g...vo-playback-hd-720p-movies-over-hdmi-out.html

It took several takes to get that video, and the Evo was playing HD content back all the meanwhile.

 

[EarlyMon]

I forgot to post the link to my documentation of this as well: http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g...vo-playback-hd-720p-movies-over-hdmi-out.html

It took several takes to get that video, and the Evo was playing HD content back all the meanwhile.

I watched when you posted it, but didn't go to the very end.

I was unclear that you'd side-loaded H.264 and that you were clear on the codec and bitrate.

BTW, Buck, and the backstory behind that - great flick!

 

[kkwus74]

What's the difference between .h263 and .h264 ? And which is better? Mpeg or.h263?

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

 

[sitlet]

h263 is an older version of h264. Kind of like mp2 is an older version of mp3. So h264 is better.

Mpeg or.h263?

If you are talking about in general, it depends on what mpeg codec you are talking about. If you are talking in terms of the two options on the camcorder, h263 allows you to shoot in 720p, and mpeg only allows really low resolutions.

 

[kkwus74]

h263 is an older version of h264. Kind of like mp2 is an older version of mp3. So h264 is better.

Mpeg or.h263?

If you are talking about in general, it depends on what mpeg codec you are talking about. If you are talking in terms of the two options on the camcorder, h263 allows you to shoot in 720p, and mpeg only allows really low resolutions.

Ok thanks.but when I choose h263, it doesn't give me an option for 720.only mpeg has that option.so I'm kinda confused as to your explanation.Which is the best setting for the best quality video then?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

 

[EarlyMon]

H.263 is not an older version of H.264.

H.264 is also called MPEG4 Part 10. It's the bomb.

The MPEG4 implementation on EVOs and many other phones is MPEG4 Part 2. It's weak.

H.263 is a different codec and is suitable for smaller frames at lower bit rates - read: videochat.

MPEG-4 Part 2 is H.263 compatible in the sense that a basic H.263 bitstream is correctly decoded by an MPEG-4 Video decoder.

MPEG4 Part 2 is partially based on H.263.

But no way is H.263 an earlier version of H.264 - that's too oversimplified to be helpful, in my opinion.

mp2 is MPEG-1 Audio Layer II and mp3 is MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3, so yes, that one fits.

PS - MPEG4 is the best setting for video quality on an EVO.

 

[kkwus74]

Tks for the explanation.really appreciate it.

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

 

[Minjin]

If the codec that the Evo is using for recording is a large part of the problem, where exactly is this codec encoded? Part of the kernel? Camera software? Is there any hope at all of it being changed by the user community?

 

[EarlyMon]

If the codec that the Evo is using for recording is a large part of the problem, where exactly is this codec encoded? Part of the kernel? Camera software? Is there any hope at all of it being changed by the user community?

Seems to come from a kernel component called PacketVideo, if my understanding is correct.

A replacement could be coming from CoreCodec in 2.2 - no telling, they've been working on things since Apr 2009.

PS - I'm still learning on that part.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Not to be rude, but it is the software dummy.

The HTC evo has some of the most slapped together, nightmarishly horrible software on the planet.

Need proof. Ok. What ever setting you select for photo transfers over to video.

Open up your normal camera. Set the iso to 100 adjust brightness and what ever, then take a picture. Next, with out changing the setting, change to video. It will use the same setting as the pictures, regardless. Once again, select the 1250 iso in picture mode, change to video mode, it will stay at 1250 iso, in video mode.

This is 90% of the problems with the video we are seeing. The iphone 3gs vs evo thread. The guy had the evo iso set to either 200 or 400 iso, but had the iphone set to auto.

Besides that it is horrible compression and really just horrible user interface. Of course if I wanted professional quality video, I would either pay more, ie iphone, or get a good video camera.

But you have to remember to reset the photo side, before you use the video side. Just plain stupidity there.

 

[EarlyMon]

Cool - I can at least exploit that now.

 

[nickoakdl]

Of course if I wanted professional quality video, I would either pay more, ie iphone, or get a good video camera.

So you are telling me the iphone produces professional quality video?

 

[mrspeedmaster]

So you are telling me the iphone produces professional quality video?

I'll be on record by saying that the iPhone 4 is capable at polished pro-type video at 720p. Yes, I said it. It has a high-enough bit-rate to be used in a high-end editing studio @ 720p. I've imported some footage into both AVID and Final Cut Pro. I imported some into After Effects and they're all useable files. You have to remember films at the Denver film festivals are filmed on lower res cameras.

Expect to see some indie film-makers using an iPhone 4 just for the sake of saying they filmed it on an iPhone (for the publicity/viral mktg).

I would plan on visiting vimeo.com in the next month and do searches for:

iphone color grading
iphone color grade
iphone final cut pro
iphone magic bullet

or in the next few weeks, go to youtube and do searches for:
iPhone color grade
iphone edited on final cut pro

I'll bet there will be some of those types of video now or in the next few days.

Edited: Didn't take too long. I found a nicely edited clip on vimeo:

http://vimeo.com/12903281

You only need to watch 45 seconds of the video to see how good the camera is in terms of metering and low-light performance. In fact, watching it and studying the edits, the whole video could have been edited in the Phone itself. The only thing you can't do is the slo-mo.

 

[RiverOfIce]

So you are telling me the iphone produces professional quality video?

Well yes and no.

Professional video can be shot on almost anything including the evo.


For example.

YouTube - EOS 5D Mark II Video - Reverie by Vincent Laforet

The video was shot with a consumer grade dslr.

Music video shot with only the iphone.

YouTube - Music Video Shot on iPhone


Are they "professional quality" yes, as long as a professional is using them.

It is the person that creates the video/picture, not the device. If you gave a professional enough time with the htc evo, they could do the same.

But to clarify my point. If you wanted a better more polished device, you have to pay more not only in money but also in the limitations of the platform.

If you are happy living in a box and being told what to do, and iphone is perfect.

If you find the above statement makes you sick, then welcome to the wilds, there be dragons here.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

It didn't take long. Philip Bloom is now jumping on the whole 'iPhone 4' cinematic project.
If you know who Philiip Bloom is, you'll know he is one of the most prominent expert on new cameras,editing:

Shooting a narrative short film on the iPhone 4 | Philip Bloom

 

[dr g]

iPhones, and all phones really, will always be saddled with the tiny-sensor look. Color me unimpressed with the trailer video. It looks like what it is, a mediocre HD camera.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Well yes and no.

Professional video can be shot on almost anything including the evo.

It is the person that creates the video/picture, not the device. If you gave a professional enough time with the htc evo, they could do the same.

True. It depends on the artists but I just want to say: the Vincent Laforet video.. The guy had like $40,000 in lenses (I remember watching the video and looking at his equipment list).

Also, both videos you showed.... Well, both are edited in... Apple's Final Cut Pro with 30fps H.264 source footage. Something that the iPhone produces ands works well with Final Cut Pro.

I don't know how much a creative artist can over-come the noise & 9-10 fps low-light limitation of the EVO. The only limitation on the iPhone is the smallish sensor and the lack of depth-of-field. Everything else, you can make up for in post production. Good color grading can make up for lousy optics and produce cinematic effects like bokeh and fake depth-of-field. You do have rolling stutter and jello on all phone type sensors but if you compose your shots and use the right dolly gear, you can over-come those limitations.

Pro work aside.... The iPhone 4's video is good for just regular joes like ourselves who want some polish. It produces better quality than a 3CCD AG Panny DV camera I had a few years ago. I went to lunch with a group of friends and one buddy of mine produced an edited video (using iMovie) on his iPhone-complete with titles, transitions, background music before the we had to pay the tip. My 80 yr old dad was very impressed that he could drag-n-drop scenes into a timeline w/ trimming & titles within a $5 app. We copied the movie over to a WDTV and watched it on a HD screen and everyone decided to go order an iPhone: including my dad who is never into gadgets. He doesn't even know how to use a computer. He won't be using the phone either. He just wants something for $300 that shoots and edits with the polish and quality he saw. I told him to wait for the iPod touch w/camera by Christmas because he'll be paying for a data-plan he'll never use.

 

[EarlyMon]

I don't know how much a creative artist can over-come the noise & 9-10 fps low-light limitation of the EVO.

Oh, that depends upon your definition of the term, creative artist. I think the answer to that is more than obvious if I take it at face value.

Whitney (in Pixelvision)

And also -

PXL 2000 Run (also in Pixelvision)


Made on a Fischer-Price toy camcorder - the PXL 2000 - from the '80s.

120 x 90 black and white pixels - 15 fps. Recorded video to an audiocassette.

Back in the early '70s, a buddy and I spent a good two years getting ready for a photo contest. Old man in a camera store overheard the wild claims. He was retiring as a pro. Walked over to the counter and bought a Kodak Instamatic (not one of the "good" ones - the el cheapo), winked, and told us he'd see us in little while.

We were using Rollei TLRs and a Mamiya RB67. I took second in that contest; my buddy I recall took fourth. The old man took 1st with that Instamatic - one of the worst cameras ever made.

For creative work, never complain about your tools - exploit them.

I never entered another contest - but I've never forgotten that lesson.

 

[dr g]

The Lensbaby sells like hotcakes based on this principle
And the Holga & Lomo effects are ever so popular.