Help Camera (and motion video) talk - the Ultrapixel and more (tips/discussion)

[EarlyMon]

The new 4.3 megapixel camera has 300% more light-gathering than conventional cameras and double last year's One X.

This means less digital noise but less to zoom in on and blow up - an interesting trade-off.

Thought we could use a thread to discuss that as well as the various features.

Also - image stabilization comes to the front facing camera (FFC) - another first so far as I know.

 

[Hadron]

Personally I'll always applaud any manufacturer prepared to challenge the megapixel marketing myth. I have an ancient 2MP Canon lying around the house that still takes better pictures than most 8MP phones, and am regularly disappointed by phone cameras that reduce all low-contrast detail to mush with a mixture of compression and noise reduction. So whether this lives up to the claims or not they are in my favour for trying.

I suspect that most people don't crop phone camera shots heavily, and I'd guess that most are viewed only on the phone screen (2MP even on this device) or social networking sites that limit the image size further. So I think HTC are right that 4MP is good enough for most people's real needs, though there will always be the odd time when you'd prefer more.

Will they be able to persuade a public who are being fed the megapixel myth by everyone else?

 

[SiempreTuna]

The most interesting thing is the camera: 2 micron pixels as opposed to 1.4, allowing them to capture 300% (i.e. nearly 2 stops) more light. Great to see someone actually putting their money where their megapixels-aren't-everything mouth is.

 

[EarlyMon]

That's per side. One article claimed that they were square so the area difference was 4 vs 1.96 sq. microns. Either way, a nice change.

For those unfamiliar with f-stops - http://www.uscoles.com/fstop.htm

Having an f/2.0 setup is great, the One X proved that.

I got big improvements with my LTEvo by rooting and using a modified camera that reduced the stock jpeg compression (bigger files, less noise and color artifacts) and that also included a 20 Mbps video rate.

If they do this right, they won't need to overcompress for file size, and I believe that the AnandTech article said that the stock One is already unthrottled to 20 Mbps for video.

The Ultrapixel marketing doesn't bother me. I don't care for it, but it doesn't bother me. Hopefully this camera produces photos that will dispel the megapixel myth with pictures instead of math.

 

[themuffinman75]

Well I am the last person you will ever see walking around with a dedicated camera but I do love taking pictures with my phone so I really hope this camera's performance lives up to the hype.

 

[toad6386]

I haven't ever been a real big picture taker, though recently, I've gotten more into it. The pics on the 3VO are OK, at best, though I had Viper3D flashed and REALLY liked the panoramic pics (they made for GREAT scrolling wallpapers). While trying to video my girls at their cheer comp a couple of weeks ago, I discovered how weak my "camera" was. So now, I'm determined to get a decent one. I'm keeping my eye on this thread!

 

[EarlyMon]

The One X camera was a _big_ leap over the 3vo, and then a leap again with custom software.

If this lives up to the claims, you're going to be more than pleasantly surprised.

 

[Rxpert83]

The One X camera was a _big_ leap over the 3vo, and then a leap again with custom software.

If this lives up to the claims, you're going to be more than pleasantly surprised.

Agreed. Htcs recent camera advances rock

 

[EarlyMon]

Ok, hold the freaking phone.

At about 25 minutes into the launch-day video (in the reviews thread), they compare the 2 micron/side UltraPixel to "conventional" phone camera pixels of 1.13 microns/side - or 1.27 sq. microns vs. 4 sq. microns.

That's where the 300% comes from - it's 200% compared to the One X.

OP updated accordingly.

 

[digital83]

here is a bunch of info on the new camera HTC ZOE

 

[craftycarper]

Some of the features of the "Zoe" thing look great, the sequence shot thing looks useful in creating interesting pictures, and some of the editing tools look very useful as well, looking forward to trying it out when i get mine.

 

[burtonvdp]

I've seen these floating around the net already but this site was the first I saw in high/full rez.... Not bad for a very low light event. I was watching some vids of the event and given the light movement and low light areas these are pretty darn good.

The comparison with a Nexus 4 is nice and the over all picture size is a lot bigger than what some sites believe they should be? I was on pocketnow and one article suggested that it would only take 2560

 

[EarlyMon]

2560x1600 = 4,096,000, aka 4 MP
3264x2448 = 7,990,292, aka 8 MP

Something is off there.

PS - I checked info on two of the pix on that site, they came back with: 2688px

 

[EarlyMon]

HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)

 

[Hadron]

Yeah, at common size the HTC at least holds its own in all of those and wins most. You can pixel-peep details (e.g. the dress fabric in the portrait, where the iPhone wins), but even at full res it's not always clear cut (the iPhone has really mushed most of the grasses in the rooftop shot).

Not bad at all.

 

[burtonvdp]

HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)

I really do like the HTC photos better overall. I do miss not being able to "zoom in" more because I have gotten used to taking photos and cropping out what I don't need instead of getting in closer to the subject, but those photos full size none zoomed, the HTC photos are very clear. The only down side I see from the 2 is that the iPhone tends to have more things "in focus" where the HTC seems to have more of a focal point?

 

[EarlyMon]

I really do like the HTC photos better overall. I do miss not being able to "zoom in" more because I have gotten used to taking photos and cropping out what I don't need instead of getting in closer to the subject, but those photos full size none zoomed, the HTC photos are very clear. The only down side I see from the 2 is that the iPhone tends to have more things "in focus" where the HTC seems to have more of a focal point?

Yep. We don't know if that's software (prerelease), software (compression artifacts), hardware (the iPhone lens is tops), or software/hardware (image stabilization at prerelease).

Point being, some of that may be addressable.

Also, three is a depth of field (focus range) trade-off with an f/2.0 setup. I can say with confidence that that's not an issue with mine.

Tell you what though - I'll decide on something that I can shoot as a reference, and show you the difference between standard HTC compression and and what happens without it. I think two pictures will be worth a thousand words on what I've been going on about.

 

[PyroSporker]

HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

A buddy at work, a long time Nokia user, sent me this link yesterday
Its good to see some actual photos and comparisons coming out and not just hearing more marketing hyperbole from the press conference.

Cameras: HTC One vs Nokia Lumia 920 - Neowin

 

[EarlyMon]

I'd like to see the Nokia comparison done with more info. In the first, the cameras are pointed in different directions, greatly affecting the lighting. I'm not sure how to draw comparisons.

In the second, the humans seem more naturally colored on the One, but I don't know how to gauge his praise of vibrant colors because they were evidently under colored lights. Anyway, check out the building color outside, right background.

In the third, I'd conclude that the Nokia took a longer exposure. That one the Nokia shot looks far sharper to me and much more pleasing.

Fun comparison, thanks Pyro!

 

[Hadron]

Anandtech have just posted a short article on the design of the One's camera. No images, though includes a few comments on the results.

AnandTech - How the HTC One's Camera Bucks the Trend in Smartphone Imaging

 

[EarlyMon]

For all (ok, maybe a lot) of those pesky tech questions on cameras -

AnandTech - Understanding Camera Optics & Smartphone Camera Trends, A Presentation by Brian Klug

 

[CafeKampuchia]

Here is an analysis of the HTC One vs. iPhone 5 photos snapped by CNET Asia done by Gsmarena:

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_vs_iphone_5_camera_shootout_surfaces_we_compare-news-5590.php

Basic summary:

They up and downsize photos to compare the amount of detail in the images and the effects of compression & noise suppression software on them. Conclusion: No significant advantage with the HTC One camera, though the sample images were not ideal.

 

[EarlyMon]

Biased rehash of the photos used here.

HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)

 

[PyroSporker]

I'd like to see the Nokia comparison done with more info. In the first, the cameras are pointed in different directions, greatly affecting the lighting. I'm not sure how to draw comparisons.

In the second, the humans seem more naturally colored on the One, but I don't know how to gauge his praise of vibrant colors because they were evidently under colored lights. Anyway, check out the building color outside, right background.

In the third, I'd conclude that the Nokia took a longer exposure. That one the Nokia shot looks far sharper to me and much more pleasing.

I was noticing this stuff too. It would be nice if all comparisons were of as close to exactly the same shot as possible and included extra info, even if it was put under the {hide} tags so only interested people had to look at it if they wanted. Some EXIF data and a summary of the settings used within the phone's camera application? Maybe even some external light meter readings?

Its quite alot to ask for for an impromptu camera comparison though, especially from most unconcerned journalists, all at a press conference event like this.

Hopefully we will see some better comparisons, with more consistency and some supporting data, coming up before release

 

[KOLIO]

I looked around & didn't find this posted elsewhere in ONEDERLAND,so,here ya go,from CNET:

HTC One Zoe mode and camera software in video walkthrough | CNET TV | Video Product Reviews, CNET Podcasts, Tech Shows, Live CNET Video