It's Your Phone You Should Have The Right?

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if you want an iPhone, then wait for the iPhone 5. It will be able to be used on any network if you pay full price.

The only problem with that is that every phone is subsidized. The carriers buy them for $500-$700 a unit and then sell them to you for $199 - $299. They need to keep a customer for up to 18-24 months to get that delta back and make a profit. The way you were stating it, If Verizon were to have a 4th of July sale and sell a $299 phone for $149, when the unsubsidized price is $700, anyone could buy that phone and activate it on any carrier, eat the early cancellation cost and Verizon would still be out $200 on every unit. They would lose a ton of money, because the smaller carriers would not get these devices and encourage people to just buy from Verizon and just switch. They have this model so that the phones are more affordable up front, because the average user doesn't want to drop $700 for a new phone every 6-18 months. If you really went with the "It's your phone" model every phone would be sold at full price which would stiffle innovation. Why put out so many new devices, with so many new features, when the market turnover for devices is too low because they are so expensive?

Just giving you the flip side of the coin. There are other reasons like enticing customers to switch from one carrier to another for the new "it" device, but that's another topic.

Arnt the phones built with different hardware, depending on the network? Some phones are compatible with multiple networks because they were built that way. For instance, Verizon's iPhone and ATT's iPhone have a different chip, making it physically impossible to switch networks with the phone. This is just from what ive read in the past. Sorry if i am wrong.

If your talking about a phone like Samsung Galaxy 2 not being available on Verizon, i dont know what to say. I kind of agree, as that would have been my choice of phone if Verizon carried it. But if every carrier had the same phones, Verizon would have all customers and there would be no competition.

mdcowby said:

It's Your Phone You Should Have The Right?

I heard someone over in Facebook, which I am trying to look there site page is taking petitions and donations to fight phone companies or the phone makers so we as consumers can buy what ever phone we desire and be able to use it on any service, I'm in on that one I feel we should be able to buy what phone we would like and use it on any service anyone agree on this, the more I read and Verizon and apple getting together why should apple be able to buy into Verizon or Verizon buy into apple and sell there phones on there service of course its all about money but what about us as consumers I mean we pay for all of this cause we buy there phones we should be able to use what ever phone we want and bring it to what ever service we would like to use. ??????

I believe this will open doors but we as customers need to stand up for what changes we would like to see. and buy what we want and use it where we want. I 100% agree hell I would love to take my phone to sprint and tell Verizon to stick it.

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First, a suggestion: Punctuation. It makes reading and understanding possible.

Now, if I've put it the punctuation in the right place and understand your rant, you want to be able to buy any phone and use it on any network. If that's right, then the biggest issue you face is the networks are different. You can't use an ATT phone (GSM) on Verizon (CDMA). Once the entire network is LTE, maybe that will go away. You can't use a Verizon phone overseas (again, CDMA vs GSM) unless it's a specific phone with both radios and protocols built into the device. There are physical and electronic differences between the carriers that are more than just saying "yes".

Verizon keeps saying there are security issues they are concerned about with allowing rooted phones on their network. There may be some validity to that argument, but it's their network and they can decide what devices will go on their network.

If you want to build an open network that everyone can use with any device, you are welcome to invest billions of dollars in spectrum licenses, hardware, business model, security etc etc etc, then go for it and come back and let us know how it works out for you.

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mdcowby said:

It's Your Phone You Should Have The Right?

... Facebook petitions so we as consumers can buy what ever phone we desire and be able to use it on any service, I'm in on that one I feel we should be able to buy what phone we would like and use it on any service

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Yes, I think it would be beneficial to separate the hardware from the carriers using appropriate anti-trust laws. It would result is drastically reduced data/voice/text plans and make the hardware much more competitive/open. It'd be good for the consumer, but the US has not made good use of anti trust laws since the 70's.

I agree with the general notion of owning a phone and taking it to any network you choose. I think that it is a long-term goal that the industry should be working toward. However, as others have pointed out, there are hardware compatibility issues between some phones and some networks. It does, however, seem to me that, with LTE taking off in the U.S. and in Europe, the industry is trending in that general direction. But it will take time.

With that said, there is a limited present-day version of the "any phone, any network" dream. If you have a CDMA phone that is out of contract, it is my understanding that you can take that phone and activate it on any pre-paid CDMA network (Verizon, Sprint, or any of their subsidiaries or other carriers using their networks). It is also my understanding that the same goes for GSM phones and GSM networks, i.e. AT&T and T-Mobile. Also, there are some phones that are both GSM and CDMA compatible (although they do not have LTE chips) so they could be used on either network. Obviously, the down sides to this option are being limited to the available pre-paid plans and which phones can be used on which network. But, it is part of the way there to the "dream".

Lastly, innovation would not be stifled. Under an "any phone, any network" model, carrier contracts could still exist. The difference is that consumers would have the choice of either paying a higher price for a phone with the benefit of switching between carriers at will, or contracting with a carrier with the benefit of paying a lower price for the phone as is the case today. In addition, currently, it is the carriers who are subsidizing the phones - not the manufacturers. Under an "any phone, any network" model, some of the pressure for price lowering would shift to the manufacturers as the demand for contract-free phones rose.

I don't agree here. I understand making phones for certain companies. I would make the MAXX for my company only that way I get all of the customers that want that phone. Just like when Xbox makes a game like Halo or Gears of War and puts them out as exclusive titles. They want people to buy their products and special games(phones) is the way to do that.

Now, if you were to buy the phone outright and have them charge you extra to do so then that might be a way to do it. Double the price of the phone to use it for another company. Or charge a switching carriers fee.

I am just looking at it with a business mind set.

Arnt the phones built with different hardware, depending on the network?

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No. The hardware is the same across the provider networks. The only hardware difference would be between, say, a CDMA phone vs. a GSM (global network) phone.

All phones are manufactured in an "unlocked" state, (and are also sold unlocked in some countries - but not the USA). Here, phones used by each specific service provider, are "locked" by that provider, using a SW code, so they will operate only on their own network. As mentioned above, this is how the providers give free, or discounted, phones as 'special' deals/promotions to their customers. That's the tradeoff for getting, say, that free new phone every two years, or a hugely discounted purchase price ... that free or cheap phone can only be used on the company you buy it from. Some providers will give out the unlocking code for GSM phones upon request (so the phone can be used in other countries, with a foreign SIM card), but most will not. (Unlocking codes can sometimes be purchased online, however.)

So, what mdcowby wants, already exists - anyone CAN buy an unlocked phone - on E-bay, and other places online. Those phones can be used with any provider you wish; and if it's a GSM model, will work in many countries around the world as well. You will just pay full-price for them, by not associating yourself with a provider & getting their special price.

There is no issue here for petitioning; phone company service providers do this practice as a promotional discount for their own customers. It's not a matter of "rights" - it's a matter of a customer accepting a deal that's offered, in order to get a freebie or a discount. There's nothing wrong, illegal, or otherwise infringing on anyone's rights, about it. If said customer wants the freedom of using the phone anywhere, it's their choice - anyone can buy an unlocked phone and not sign up with one phone company.

Different carriers use different technology. They aren't all created equal, hardware specifications have to meet requirements of the individual carrier, this petition just isn't gonna have any merit. Its not plausible.

MsBlue said:

No. The hardware is the same.

All phones are manufactured in an "unlocked" state, (and are also sold unlocked in some countries - but not the USA). Here, phones used by each specific service provider, are "locked" by that provider, using a SW code, so they will operate only on their network. As mentioned above, this is how the providers give free, or discounted-price, phones as 'special' deals, and promotions for 'their' customers. That's the tradeoff for getting, say, that new free phone every two years, or huge discounts on purchase price ... the free or cheap phone you get can only be used on the company you get it from. Some providers will provide you with an unlocking code if you request it (so the phone can be used in other countries, with a foreign SIM card), but most will not; unlocking codes can sometimes be purchased online, however.

If you don't want to go this route, you CAN buy unlocked phones - on E-bay, and other places online, and those phones can be used with any provider you wish; and in many countries around the world as well - you will just pay full-price for them, by not associating yourself with a provider and receiving their subsidized purchase price.

So, what you want already exists. There is no issue here for petitioning.

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This is completely false information. There absolutely ARE hardware compatibility issues with many phones between different types of networks. A CDMA-only phone WILL NOT WORK on AT&T or T-Mobile no matter what you do to it software-wise because those networks run on GSM technology. The same is true for the reverse. There are some so-called "global" phones, such as the HTC Incredible 2, that have built-in radios for both CDMA and GSM and so they are interchangeable between CDMA and GSM networks, such as between AT&T and Verizon, but that is not the case for most phones. Being "unlocked" is purely a software/firmware issue - not hardware - and unlocking a CDMA-only phone does not magically give it a GSM radio, or vice versa.

ChiweN said:

this petition just isn't gonna have any merit. Its not plausible.

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It is most certainly plausible. It won't happen overnight, but there is no reason it can't be a long-term goal. Reasons that it may not happen? Sure. But no reason exists that it can't happen.

yes irish - sorry, i realized that wasn't what i meant to indicate; i was editing when you posted that - I edited my comments for the difference in hardware between CDMA and GSM.

I meant to say that the hardware for equivalent phone models, is the same... meaning - the Razr Maxx you buy from say, Verizon is the same Razr Maxx you buy from, say, Sprint. (those are just examples, i don't know if those specific companies sell that specific phone) - if it's the same phone model, it's the same hardware, the only difference is the locking codes.

That's actually not necessarily true, either. Manufacturers do make different versions of the same phone models with different radios in them. One example is the Samsung Galaxy Nexus. The non-contract model is GSM, while the Verizon model is CDMA.

You can already do this on GSM and with some cdma phones with global capabilities. Until carriers no longer subsidize phones good luck changing anything.

irishjoeyo said:

That's actually not necessarily true, either. Manufacturers do make different versions of the same phone models with different radios in them. One example is the Samsung Galaxy Nexus. The non-contract model is GSM, while the Verizon model is CDMA.

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He was talking about same tech phones(cdma to cdma, and GSM to GSM) clearly cdma and GSM are different.....

Skeeter125 said:

He was talking about same tech phones(cdma to cdma, and GSM to GSM) clearly cdma and GSM are different.....

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Maybe that is what he meant, but it is quite different from what he actually said.