[VZW] CDMA dBm comparison: Nexus, Dinc, iPhone 4

question. Was the Nexus in 3G only mode? or Auto?

I'm thinking that some people just have either have 1) a poor quality Nexus or 2) have a very specific network issue in their area that is exacerbated by a specific shortcoming in the Nexus's radio. The fact that signal issues are not consistent and vary wildly leads me to believe this.

Especially since the radio was truly tested on mine when I was in northern Idaho. It could still manage a decent 3G (and even 4G) connection in the mountains. And the only time the signal was unusable was when there was no Verizon signal period (with a Droid 2 Global, an Incredible 2, and an LG VX8300 3G flip-phone along as well coming to that same conclusion).

Thx for sharing and taking the time to do this! Interesting results

Demache said:

I'm thinking that some people just have either have 1) a poor quality Nexus or 2) have a very specific network issue in their area that is exacerbated by a specific shortcoming in the Nexus's radio.

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i have to go with number 2. There is just no way that people can get 3 to 4 devices and all of them be bad. I've had 3 ..all of which performed the same. Even had new sim card as well.

Thanks from me too.

I want to cry seeing your indoors dbm measurements below -90 but I'm genuinely happy for you.

Demache said:

or 2) have a very specific network issue in their area that is exacerbated by a specific shortcoming in the Nexus's radio. The fact that signal issues are not consistent and vary wildly leads me to believe this.

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This is my theory. Verizon and Samsung will never accept this however.

red66charger said:

This is my theory. Verizon and Samsung will never accept this however.

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Samsung would have to do a full recall if the hardware is either defective or of poor quality. Verizon, while not OFFICIALLY admitting the problem, have admitted it in someway. The fact that they're letting people who have had problems with the signal strength switch to any device they want says something. Not to mention, both tier 2 tech people that I talked to about my GNex addited the problem. So, why not coming right out and admititing how bad and widespread the problem is, at least Verizon is letting those that are having major problems with the device switch to one that will work better for them.

But yes, neither will ever come right out and admit that there is a seriously widespread problem. As a matter of fact, I've been thinking that this next update has been delayed and delayed and delayed, possibly, because they know it isn't going to fix the problem for many people and if everyone finally knows that their problems aren't software related, then they're going to have a serious problem on their hands and Samsung will take a huge loss on all of the returned devices at that point, not to mention it won't look very good for Verizon's numbers. Just a theory, however.

JKC, thank you for the comparison. It's nice to see some solid numbers between the Nexus and a couple other devices.

It's too bad we can't get either jb or myself with trophy or red in the same place to see. That would settle it once and for all.

Note the fact that the nexus does not display signal strength in 1 digit increments whereas the other phones do. Notice how the nexus is 75 - 77 - 83 - 87 - 93 etc. It won't go lower than 75 (well, technically higher than -75). So the difficulty in comparing is that the nexus can be under or over reporting strength every time.

On the positive side, in your case at least strength is comparable. Same for me, though in my house I never see 70's on any phone.

lol JB go through Atlanta airport , and record your signal readings. I'll be going through there next Wednesday.

Continuing with the testing theme, I made a short video demonstrating the location of my office where I receive horrible 3G/4G reception. Actually, my phone switches off of 4G the moment I sit down at my desk, then struggles to connect to 3G. I can at times get 3G to work...sometimes. Almost always at -120 dbm in "the black hole".

I'd be interested to hear if you all think it is reasonable that I have signal failure in this office. The building is obviously masonry. I could literally punch a hole through the drywall in my office.

jkc and mods...if you feel I hijacked your thread, I'll edit this post. This is for illustrative purposes.

VZW Galaxy Nexus - Office Building Signal Failure - YouTube

trophynuts said:

lol JB go through Atlanta airport , and record your signal readings. I'll be going through there next Wednesday.

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I get 4 full bars (in the -70's dBms) of glorious 4G at Hartsfield International last time I was there (1 month ago)

My service in my office is terrible. As soon as I get through the door my phone flips to 3G. If I'm lucky it is around -93, -100 dBm but it will sometimes go to -120 dBm and then no data service (voice is fine). For some reason it rarely goes to 1X in these situations, but instead goes straight from 3G to no data at all.

Ocassionally it will keep the 4G through the door but once I'm at my desk, no love. Even less occasionally it will toggle back to 4G on my desk, but speeds are abysmal and battery life is more abysmal. In fact, battery life is terrible in weak signal areas, much more so than other phones I've owned and used in this same location. As soon I step out of the building, I'm back on 4G and -100 dBm before I'm in my car.

When I had the Rezound, it could keep 4G in my office. It is, in fact, the only phone in my office of everyone's that can keep 4G in the office. Everyone else here with a 4G phone winds up in 3G in this building.

I see -75 dBm upstairs in my house and more like -83 dBm downstairs in my house. Never bothered to test the basement on forced CDMA. Can't recall the 4G numbers, but it is generally 3-4 bars as well.

The Thunderbolt, Charge, and OG Droid we have in our house all get similar 3G signal strengths.

I don't have nice tabulated data, but when I got my Nexus, I compared it to all the display phones in my VZW store--twice because I'm anal. I also compared it to the Razr, Rezound, iPhone, Charge, Thunderbolt on many occasions in different locations of different signal strengths with friends and my husband. My Nexus readings in forced CDMA were always similar to the others, keeping in mind as was noted above, that the discrete values the Nexus reports seem to be more widely spaced than other phones, so you can't necessarily say that -83 dBm on a Nexus is "worse" than -79 on a Razr. My Nexus always held 4G in all the same places as the other phones, with the exception of the Rezound which proved to be the best at locking onto a weak 4G signal. That said, it was also the best at getting stuck in 1X and needing a reboot to get back on 3G/4G. Go figure.

I think it is combination of some bad phones and this phone's ability to perform well in bad signal areas. People who have phones that drop data randomly for no reason need a replacement.

Sometimes I will get frustrated when my phone is not getting 4G or any data at all, then freak out, then grab my husband's phone to make sure his service is bad too. Not once have I ever found my phone struggling with a data connection while his Thunderbolt was not.

It seems like people need to stop saying, "The GNex has bad service" and recognize that the experience seems to vary greatly, so people interested in the phone should just go ahead and try it out and return it if their experience is bad and isn't remedied with a replacement. It's not rocket science.

jbdan said:

I get 4 full bars (in the -70's dBms) of glorious 4G at Hartsfield International last time I was there (1 month ago)

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lol i'll try and remember to check

crankerchick said:

My service in my office is terrible. As soon as I get through the door my phone flips to 3G. If I'm lucky it is around -93, -100 dBm but it will sometimes go to -120 dBm and then no data service (voice is fine). For some reason it rarely goes to 1X in these situations, but instead goes straight from 3G to no data at all.

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crankerchick said:

Sometimes I will get frustrated when my phone is not getting 4G or any data at all, then freak out, then grab my husband's phone to make sure his service is bad too. Not once have I ever found my phone struggling with a data connection while his Thunderbolt was not.

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And you should get frustrated when you don't get data. You're paying for it, and my understanding is we don't get refunds or discounts for the service interruptions.

crankerchick said:

It seems like people need to stop saying, "The GNex has bad service" and recognize that the experience seems to vary greatly, so people interested in the phone should just go ahead and try it out and return it if their experience is bad and isn't remedied with a replacement. It's not rocket science.

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You gave a very thorough description of your user experience with the GNex. A lot about your experience is similar to mine. The difference is, I'm not as agreeable to give Verizon/Samsung a pass with the under performing element of the device. I've said it before, when the consumer is willing to accept mediocrity what incentive is there for businesses to improve their product, or fix it in this case?

I've seen several GNex owners admit their device has weaknesses but they are okay with it and "it's still the best device...period". In the same way that you don't understand why people say "GNex has bad service", I don't see how you can give the report you did above and NOT have a problem with it. Also, my recent interaction with Verizon customer service has not been very "customer friendly". I actually think rocket science might be less frustrating. The "return it if their experience is bad and isn't remedied with a replacement" isn't working out so good for me.

I was really feeling your post until the last paragraph. I just don't understand the loyalty to multimillion dollar big businesses that seemingly don't care about their customer's satisfaction.

And my counter point to your points comes with the utmost respect. You always have good posts

red66charger said:

You gave a very thorough description of your user experience with the GNex. A lot about your experience is similar to mine. The difference is, I'm not as agreeable to give Verizon/Samsung a pass with the under performing element of the device. I've said it before, when the consumer is willing to accept mediocrity what incentive is there for businesses to improve their product, or fix it in this case?

I've seen several GNex owners admit their device has weaknesses but they are okay with it and "it's still the best device...period". In the same way that you don't understand why people say "GNex has bad service", I don't see how you can give the report you did above and NOT have a problem with it. Also, my recent interaction with Verizon customer service has not been very "customer friendly". I actually think rocket science might be less frustrating. The "return it if their experience is bad and isn't remedied with a replacement" isn't working out so good for me.

I was really feeling your post until the last paragraph. I just don't understand the loyalty to multimillion dollar big businesses that seemingly don't care about their customer's satisfaction.

And my counter point to your points comes with the utmost respect. You always have good posts

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Thanks for the counter argument posted with respect and in the positive spirit of disagreement rather than outrage and attack which can happen around here.

I agree with your statement about not giving a pass to the carrier or manufacturer. I just wonder if perhaps my main point was lost, which was to reinforce that at least for me, my phone always seems to perform in line with others, except the Rezound in some situations. I'm not saying it's OK that my phone drops to 3g or drops data completely, I'm just saying that when it does, other non nexus devices I have access to at that time seem to as well. Therefore, in those situations I'm not inclined to blame my device specifically, but instead the service in general. My point wasn't that this OK, but rather that it as at least consistent for me. Hence I say that there are people who have no problems, so it is a disservice to future phone buyers to say not to even give the phone a try. Every person needs to decide for the self after doing the research if they want to take a chance on the device. If it doesn't work out, or they aren't willing to even try, they can always move on.

All we can really report on is our own experience so I would rather say that mine has been mostly positive, so I won't discourage people, but I also won't make a blanket statement that "Nothing is wrong with the Gnex" just because mine seems fine. On the flip, though, there seem to be many people who say, "The Gnex is bad" because they have had a bad experience. One person's situation does not apply to the whole.

I am wondering how to out this tactfully.... so here goes...

I really believe there are a lot of people that do not have a problem.
I also know that there are a lot of people that have been on the receiving end of complete and utter horror, myself included.

Then there is an element of something we like to poke fun at fruit company users: fanboyism.

I have seen people say they are not having a problem and defend the device and the brand with vigor and enthusiasm.
then... post a screenshot or info that clearly shows them having a low signal issue but say it's a non-issue.

Take the news articles on Phandroid where issues have been reported then look at the comments... someone says they are having an issue and there is someone replying to that comment that the don't have an issue.
Then another person comments that they are having an issue and that same person replies to that person that they are not having an issue.
Change sites, similar news story..... same types of comments.

My nexus died but here is some food for thought.
When in CDMA mode - where I operated it regularly just to preserve battery and avoid the bad handoff issues I had signal levels in the -100s

I have my wife's old Droid 2 activated at the moment since I needed a phone to use for a day and the signal is..... -79

It was like this on -all- of the replacements I had.

When we are talking about one device having -101 and another having -79 like this in CDMA mode sitting right next to one another that is a massive difference in signal level... many factors of 10.
Her Rezound sitting here next to the Droid 2 is -81
One having -79 and the other having -81 when were talking about a Motorola device to boot is actually not bad at all.

I love the nexus,... so much that I went and got a GSM one.
Unfortunately it arrived DOA but I am getting an advance replacement.

I still think that Verizon and Samsung really should work this out, especially since they are still selling this device.
On the flip side, perhaps the return rates are telling them that this is not very widespread - but do you trust a corporation in this day and age to do the right thing if an analysis of returns are telling them they have a problem?

I will leave that one for the reader to decide... but a little birdie tells me personally that they will try to hide it.

One thing that I don't think I've seen anyone mention is that I see a lot of people talk about the poor signal strength they get on 4G (mine is -116dbm right now but working fine) and then complain about calls dropping or missing. However, they don't realize that the reported 4G signal has nothing to do with voice calls as they are all handled on the 3G network. And in my house, my 3G signal is much better than my 4G (-83 to -93 vs the above mentioned 4G).

I'm not saying people don't have a problem, only that a lot of people are reporting problems and unrelated statistics without knowing it.

I also think that a lot of people's problems are due to handoff issues not directly to signal issues. I could see problems with people on a weak 4G signal whose phone is trying to hold on rather than flip to 3G and this causing data problems (but not voice). Honestly, I haven't really seen many people post poor #'s for 3G signals...

Tim K said:

Honestly, I haven't really seen many people post poor #'s for 3G signals...

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Lots of us are putting the phones in CDMA mode just to make sure that we are actually looking at those signal levels.

On another note.... There is no explanation for why I saw such drastic differences in the levels between devices.
The only conclusion I can draw is that the radio lacks the ability to amplify a weaker signal or the software is not telling it to compensate for low signal sufficiently.
In the case of this device it's probably both.

This problem is likely exacerbated by terrain or lack of sufficient cell sites to compensate for bad terrain.
You don't get much signal thru hills and in my area there are a lot of hills and foliage that will attenuate that signal.

Verizon knows what effect the terrain has on signal levels.
If you look at coverage maps they essentially view it as "all or none" when it comes to 3G coverage and "yes/maybe/no" for 4G coverage.
AT&T does the same thing and T-Mobile at least tries to be a little bit more honest about it.

The problem with those guys is they have this mentality that "we cover everywhere" and that's so far from true that it amazes me that they get away with it.

I have been in areas around town that I was -ROAMING- on Sprint and their maps show that I should not be.
Those areas are still there today.

I really think that their coverage maps just generate more confusion for both customers and customer service reps.
The maps says "hey, your covered - I don't know why your signal is so low" and on top of this we have the sub-par radio of the Galaxy nexus mucking up the works.

If some engineers actually took a look at this device in a fringe area instead of a lab they might actually see why some people have problems and some people do not have problems then actually come to a conclusion and fix it.

I really question whether or not they give these devices to testers in fringe areas...

LoyalServant said:

I really question whether or not they give these devices to testers in fringe areas...

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To be fair, fringe areas are not created equal. You may fix it in some areas, but not others, or make it even worse. To be honest, designing cellular radios seems to be more of an art, than a science.

Or maybe just a very artful science.

Tim K said:

I also think that a lot of people's problems are due to handoff issues not directly to signal issues. I could see problems with people on a weak 4G signal whose phone is trying to hold on rather than flip to 3G and this causing data problems (but not voice). Honestly, I haven't really seen many people post poor #'s for 3G signals...

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I had a few dropped calls in auto 4G mode at home. Looks like my phone was doing 4G/3G hand off at that time. It doesn't happen very often for me. But I guess it can be more issue in weaker areas though I have no idea how many of voice call troubles are caused by this.

When in forced 3G mode, mine is pretty solid as phone without any noticeable call/text issues. CDMA signal level at my home is slightly worse than jkc's, normally in -93~-103dbm range. My area is kind of medium signal area.