Does Israel CONTROLL the USA?

[X10iUser]

I read you wrote, and I viewed your comparison of photos from Nazi Germany, and Present Day Israel. You absolutely did compare and equate the two.

Of course, but what else did I SAY.

information may be misinformation depending on where it comes from. spreading that misinformation does a disservice to everyone.

True, but it's through discussion and debate that you get as close as possible to the truth. I was brought up being told there is always two sides to every story which is why I'm happy to read, watch or listen to information regardless of where it comes from because the more information you have means a better informed opinion.

 

[byteware]

True, but it's through discussion and debate that you get as close as possible to the truth. I was brought up being told there is always two sides to every story which is why I'm happy to read, watch or listen to information regardless of where it comes from because the more information you have means a better informed opinion.

As long as you vet that information and discard that for which there is no basis, then I would absolutely agree with you.

If someone tries to tell you that Hitler was not in charge of Nazi Germany, I would have to file them under the crazy category, until they could provide proof to support their claim.

 

[Palomarsun]

I'm another who's more than surprised to see such a poll in an Android website, political section or not. Who the hell has a political section in a totally unrelated forum anyway, I know of smut, dirty videos etc but politics- it's definitely a first for me that's for sure?! Now to address your question briefly: NO Israel does not rule or even have any significant influence over the US' policy directions & to believe so shows IMO a level of naivete which one could expect from someone who's in what you'd call grade school. The US does whatever is in the US' interest, and that has been demonstrated time and time again. I take a great deal of pride in keeping up-todate on world affairs but specifically anything pertaining to Israel and I have yet to come across ANYONE who would go head to head with me on any issue regarding the Arab world (PA & Hamas included) vis-a-vie Israel's history/relationship with her neighbours. Fact always trumps bigotry, anti-Semitism and/or naivete.

 

[X10iUser]

As long as you vet that information and discard that for which there is no basis, then I would absolutely agree with you.

And not get all your information from a 5 minute news segment either.

& to believe so shows IMO a level of naivete which one could expect from someone who's in what you'd call grade school.

To think otherwise shows you believe everything you read or see on the T.V or are just being wilfully ignorant imo.

The Israel lobby is united not by a consensus about Israeli policies but by a consensus about U.S. policies toward Israel. Most of the disparate elements of the pro-Israel coalition support two things. The first is massive U.S. funding for Israel.

As Stephen M Walt writes in International Security (Winter 2001/02), "In 1967 Israel's defense spending was less than half the combined defense expenditures of Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Syria; today Israel's defense expenditure is 30 percent larger than the combined defense spending of these four Arab states." Israel receives more of America's foreign aid budget than any other country-$3 billion a year, two-thirds in military grants (total aid since 1979 is over $70 billion).

Along with aid, the Israel lobby demands unconditional U.S. diplomatic protection of Israel in the U.N. and other forums. To a degree, this is justified; the U.S. has been right to denounce the ritual "Zionism-is-racism" rhetoric of various kleptocracies and police states. The U.S., however, has been wrong to block repeatedly efforts by its major democratic allies in the U.N. Security Council to condemn Israeli repression and colonization in the occupied territories.

It is difficult to prove direct cause-and-effect connections between the power of a lobby and America's foreign policy positions. But, in the Middle East, it is hard to explain America's failure to pressure Israel into a final land-for-peace settlement-particularly since the Oslo deal in 1993-without factoring in the Israel lobby. The influence of the lobby may be easier to detect in the way U.S. positions have shifted on more specific totems of the conflict. For example, Israeli settlements in the occupied territories were regarded as illegal during the Carter administration. Under Reagan, they shifted to being an "obstacle" to peace and are now just a complicating actor. Similarly, East Jerusalem was considered by the U.S. to be part of the occupied territories but recently its status has become rather more ambiguous.

SOURCE

The US does whatever is in the US' interest, and that has been demonstrated time and time again.

LOL, 2 illegal wars, pushing for another with Iran, while basically in an economic depression and a whole lot more would suggest they don't, and haven't had for a long time.

 

[byteware]

And not get all your information from a 5 minute news segment either.

I have had several conversations with you on here of late... and in most of them you are touting information from questionable sources as fact that cannot be disputed. I would take 5 minute news segments from reliable sources over a book from an unreliable one any day.

SOURCE

Here's a fine example. What would make you take anything said in the above website as fact? It is not a known reliable source of information with fact checking procedures. Heck, it doesn't even provide sources for it's claims. It just makes claims and assumes you will believe them.

In fact, the fact that it has a section titled "Israel Watch" should tell you that this is not unbiased factual information.

The fact that you seem unable to distinguish between reliable sources and crackpottery (just made that word up... hope you like it)... is disturbing.

To think otherwise shows you believe everything you read or see on the T.V or are just being wilfully ignorant imo.

Willfully ignorant. It's ironic that you would use that term. Yes, you have a conspiracy that you want to be true. No... it isn't true.

LOL, 2 illegal wars, pushing for another with Iran, while basically in an economic depression and a whole lot more would suggest they don't, and haven't had for a long time.

2 illegal wars?

You can make the argument for 1 illegal war, but retaliating after an attack isn't really considered illegal. So, Afghanistan can't be considered illegal.

That being said, we've got countries basically begging us to go to war with Iran... and all we do is talk. Even during the Bush years, all we've done is talk. We haven't moved one iota towards war with Iran... so, your whole point here seems moot.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I think the point was of the "oppressed becoming the oppresser"
Anyone care to justify Israel's building of settlements and stealing of resources
The innocent people here are the Palestinians, who have over the last couple of decades, largely turned to extremism and violence as a solution, which has been sponsored by several Arab nations
Look at a small Jewish minorities tactics of driving Palestinians out and pretending Palestinians were never there became a state sponsored operation
Even today there are archaeologists hiding Palestinian findings, only revealing Judeo-Israeli ones
Israeli Expansion is continuing in East Jerusalem, if you ask me, I'd say the Israelis wont make a meaning attempt for peace until they have taken over another 20% of the West Bank and East Jerusalem

Its VERY complicated
There is no hope for peace until the extreme right elements in Israel are diluted
Until then... more innocent deaths... on BOTH sides
And more going to the path of extremism, on BOTH sides

 

[ElasticNinja]

Agree and with JSF. More than a dozen countries (incidently all mid-eastern arabs) flooded with money - BUT in the lowest ranking of the UN in terms of democracy, health, development. Take care of this first instead of blaming the jews for everything. Please don't post pictures of arab Sudanese massacring the christian Sudanese in southern Sudan!

religious hatred goes all ways unfortunately
Damn those confused sheep herders!

 

[Bob Maxey]

The question and the tread obviously have an anti Semitic motivation and tone.

How dare you to put a silly image collage and compare the Jews to the Nazis. Go and study a bit more.

And better yet leave it out of the Android forums.

I dare say that the majority of those that hate the Jews do not know a single, solitary Jew, they know nothing of their culture, and they simply need someone to dislike. Ignore them, they are foolish and sad.

Pictures of Nazis are easy because they elicit an immediate response. Again, the Jew haters have likely never read a book about those dark times and their "facts" come from the first link Google returns that supports their hatred. Pity them, for they no nothing and fortunately, they have no power to do much about those awfull Jews.

As for politics on the Android forums, it is allowed, so banning such discussions is not likely to happen.

Merry Christmas.

Bob Maxey

 

[ElasticNinja]

this part of the world is big problem for the world and its a such a big problem.for USA and Israel.

but not the Palestinians who were driven out of their homes and away from their livelyhoods?

 

[byteware]

but not the Palestinians who were driven out of their homes and away from their livelyhoods?

Exactly what do you think happened? There were no Jews in modern Israel until the UN decided to create a Jewish State in 1947?

They'd been immigrating to the British principality for decades, nearly 30 years.

They came in droves, and by the time the UN split the nations (Palestine and Israel) there were so many Jews in Israel that they could fend off attacks from their Arab neighbors.

Seriously, the decision to split the nations came in 1947, and they were under attack in 1948, and winning against established militaries.

They were defending themselves against militias in 1947. This was an established government long before the UN split them.



The Palestinians that were expelled from then Israel, did so in the middle of a war where Israel was under attack by every single one of it's neighbors. They didn't just say: "We have a nation, get out."

Jews had ruled that land for about a decade, and ruled it peacefully with non-Jewish citizens. It wasn't until May of 1948, when the Palestinians were ejected from Israel.



Israel was negotiating for their return. They were willing to return 100,000 to Israel immediately and negotiate for the rest of the refugees, if they could come to a peace treaty with it's neighbors. (oversimplification, but the pertinent facts are there).

The neighbors basically rejected their proposal, and offered none of their own.



Seriously, it wasn't like anyone was unfair or cruel to the Palestinians.

While Palestine was under British rule, Britain made the decision to allow Jews to immigrate.

While under British rule, enough Jews immigrated to make up the majority in that area. They became the government in that area, and when they were split off, they were already in charge.

If the neighboring Arabs had not declared all out war on Israel (And I quote):

We are now at war, a war in which no quarter will be asked and none will be given. It will be a battle of life and death and woe to the vanquished

Then we would likely have a reasonably happy two states, where Palestinians are living in Israel and no one is in fear of their lives.



What exactly do you think Israel SHOULD have done at that point?

 

[ElasticNinja]

I'm not saying Israel shouldve rolled over and not resisted the attempts by Arab nations to basicially, destroy them

However during the 1948 war, and for a while after that, Israelis very much aided by the state, removed Palestinians from their land (eg the Israeli military could take over a piece of land, have it judged as unoccupied and then nationalised)
Militias also "helped" remove Palestinians

Was this not wrong?

The whole idea of a Jewish state was probably a bad idea in the first place, but the implementation was fairly awful
In a way its simlilar to what happened in Africa; the colonial powers upped and left, without putting neccessery democratic state stuctures in the Middle East

 

[Martimus]

It's laughable that some still don't seem to understand that the fighting that occurs in the Middle East has been happening for well over 2000 years now. The Arabs people in the area are descendants of the Bedouin people. The Bedouin's have been fighting each other... and themselves... for nearly their entire history.

According to the Wikipedia article on Bedouins there's a widely quoted Bedouin saying that states "Me against my brother, My brothers and me against my cousins, then my cousins and me against strangers". This is a very telling quote of their loyalties and attitudes towards people outside their tribe or family unit.

Bedouin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If Israel were out of the picture then the Palestinians would be squabbling with someone else. Don't believe me? Remember the Iraq-Iran war? How about the numerous conflicts between Iraq and Kuwait? The border war between Libya and Egypt? The numerous conflicts in Lebanon?

List of conflicts in the Middle East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have been numerous conflicts over the last 2000 years in that region... and with or without Israel there'll be many, many more in the years to come. This is what these people do... and Monday morning quarterbacking about how Israel is the cause of all this unrest is silly and contrary to the recorded history of the region.

 

[ElasticNinja]

There have been numerous conflicts over the last 2000 years in that region... and with or without Israel there'll be many, many more in the years to come. This is what these people do... and Monday morning quarterbacking about how Israel is the cause of all this unrest is silly and contrary to the recorded history of the region.

No one here believes that


Africa is worse tho, they just dont have as mamy international terrorists, and look at Indian SC

 

[Martimus]

No one here believes that

Believing it is one thing... proving it is another matter entirely!

History doesn't lie... The exception to this is revisionist history but then again that tends to be created by people with hidden agendas.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Believing it is one thing... proving it is another matter entirely!

History doesn't lie... The exception to this is revisionist history but then again that tends to be created by people with hidden agendas.

I was reffering to do end of the quote

 

[Martimus]

I was reffering to do end of the quote

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[byteware]

I'm not saying Israel shouldve rolled over and not resisted the attempts by Arab nations to basicially, destroy them

However during the 1948 war, and for a while after that, Israelis very much aided by the state, removed Palestinians from their land (eg the Israeli military could take over a piece of land, have it judged as unoccupied and then nationalised)
Militias also "helped" remove Palestinians

Was this not wrong?

Considering that Palestinian "civilians" were forming militias and striking Israeli targets? No, I don't think so.

It's rather extreme, but when you are at war with every neighbor you have, and are surrounded by enemies, you don't have as many options as you would otherwise.

The whole idea of a Jewish state was probably a bad idea in the first place, but the implementation was fairly awful
In a way its simlilar to what happened in Africa; the colonial powers upped and left, without putting neccessery democratic state stuctures in the Middle East

That's the thing, there was already a Jewish state before it was ever declared. Jews made up the majority of the population, and the government before it was ever decided to set up a Jewish state.

All that declaration did was attempt to formally separate the Palestinian government from the Jewish one.