My last Motorola phone

[Thom]

Sorry Thom, but I have to disagree ...

... attempting to give you some new ideas.

As I understand it ... you are on your 5th Bionic ... you have never dropped any of them ... you have made sure the SIM card is firmly and squarely seated ... you have tried a new SIM card ... nothing solves your problem.

Data drops have always been a combination of problems with the hardware and software on the tower side and the phone side. I've seen people give telling arguments that it is one of the four that made total sense. In truth it is all four.

If I was on my 5th Bionic I'd be hacked. I am not. I am using the Bionic that I got the first hour they went on sale.

I am in a 3G-only area and have extremely stable data. This was not always the case. For the first four-five months I recommended to my customers that needed the data connection for their work that they wait before getting a Verizon 4G phone in my area. This was due to the data drops in 3G while in a 3G-only area. It was simply too unstable when required for business use.

Based on all that is written it seems that one of the biggest problems was (is?)handing off 3G to 4G and 4G to 3G. There are bugs on both the tower side and the phone side of the connection. Being 3G-only I ASSUME that is part of the reason for my lack of data drops.

Good luck with your new non-Bionic non-iPhone. I hope it works out for you.

... Thom

 

[charlie310]

Just to make a minor correction, by 5th Bionic worked fine until a few months ago (read my earlier posts).

I live in a full-coverage LTE area, so there is rarely any "switching from 3G to LTE" and vice-versa. According to "your theory" I should not experience any data drops.

On a side note, Verizon 3G is sooooooo slooowwww. I rather be on AT&T than Verizon w/o LTE. But, that's just me.

 

[wildkitten]

Just to make a minor correction, by 5th Bionic worked fine until a few months ago (read my earlier posts).

I live in a full-coverage LTE area, so there is rarely any "switching from 3G to LTE" and vice-versa. According to "your theory" I should not experience any data drops.

On a side note, Verizon 3G is sooooooo slooowwww. I rather be on AT&T than Verizon w/o LTE. But, that's just me.

In your post your before this you said that it was not the network but the phone that was at fault most of the time, and said it in such a way as if it were a known fact. I would love to see what information you base this on so I could read it because my experience says otherwise.

I also think you misunderstand Thom's point. Just because you (as well as myself) live in full LTE areas does not mean that the handoff between 3G and 4G is not faulty as Verizon has implemented it. When we lose 4G, we should automatically go to 3G but this is not happening, and it has been explained before about Verizon's convoluted system of going between the two automatically, which is not limited to the Bionics.

While I am not discounting or diminishing your problem, many of us have seen it as well, the fact you state as fact ("I can tell you from 1st hand experience that it's definitely not the network...") and aren't showing why the network isn't the problem, rather undermines your argument.

 

[charlie310]

In your post your before this you said that it was not the network but the phone that was at fault most of the time, and said it in such a way as if it were a known fact. I would love to see what information you base this on so I could read it because my experience says otherwise.

I also think you misunderstand Thom's point. Just because you (as well as myself) live in full LTE areas does not mean that the handoff between 3G and 4G is not faulty as Verizon has implemented it. When we lose 4G, we should automatically go to 3G but this is not happening, and it has been explained before about Verizon's convoluted system of going between the two automatically, which is not limited to the Bionics.

While I am not discounting or diminishing your problem, many of us have seen it as well, the fact you state as fact ("I can tell you from 1st hand experience that it's definitely not the network...") and aren't showing why the network isn't the problem, rather undermines your argument.

I think you misunderstand the MAIN point. One of the bullets of my OP was that the Data/GPS dropping was terrible. Thom said that it's because of the LTE/3G switching. That's why I said that I am rarely ever on the 3G network. Yes, obviously there could be an issue with the LTE/3G switching. But for most of us, this is irrelevant (most people do live in big cities).

Sorry, but I think 1st hand experience is much better than someone's experience with using only 3G (Of course data drops will be rare on 3G!). I don't want to sound rude, but, obviously, my 1st hand experience would entail using different LTE smartphones.

Let's think about it logically: if people are reporting that the ICS leak actually decreased the data drops, then it's pretty obvious that it's the phone and not the network.

 

[PowerBomb]

I felt I owed this thread a second visit after my last reply where I pretty much defended Motorola. In some aspects I still do stick up for them and think the Bionic is decent, but as the days tick by, even I am starting to get a little tired of the ICS situation, and just recently hearing that Motorola is releasing a bootloader unlocking tool for some of the newer devices, but don't plan to support the Bionic, Droid 3, and other older phones doesn't make me happy either. The Bionic has pretty much been treated like crap and forgotten about, the least they could do is throw us a bone by letting us unlock these things so the dev community has an easier time supporting the Bionic, since Moto hardly does. What sense does it make to unlock newer phones that everyone probably still has under warranty, whereas the Bionic has been out for a while, hardly anyone is probably walking around with one that still has warranty coverage, so if we mess around with an unlocked bootloader and brick something, it's our problem. Instead you're gonna let people with Razrs start messing around? And I was reminded the other day that Moto Mobility is now a part of Google, so the fact that they are pretty much directly attached to the creators of Android, yet can't get ICS out, is pretty lame.

I live near Chicago and if I really felt it would do any good, I would almost request a meeting with someone at the Moto Mobility office they have here and ask for some sort of explanation or compensation for the Bionic being treated so badly. I didn't choose this as my upgrade in February so I could have a nearly forgotten about phone in August.

 

[Thom]

What I said was ... "Data drops have always been a combination of problems with the hardware and software on the tower side and the phone side. I've seen people give telling arguments that it is one of the four that made total sense. In truth it is all four."

The phrase "data drop" is ambiguous and is used to describe a lot of different situations.

Since you are now having problems with data and GPS and weren't before on your 5th Bionic I wonder if you installed an app or made another change two months ago that is causing this new problem. Have you verified that this is not the case?

As for the hand off problems that I mentioned .... this is directly associated with authentication ... a good place to start is ... This Is Why Your Verizon Galaxy Nexus (Or Other 4G LTE VZW Phone) Is Losing Its Data Connection ... that is in the reference ... http://androidforums.com/motorola-droid-bionic/438060-bionic-reference-terms-links.html.

... Thom

 

[wildkitten]

I think you misunderstand the MAIN point. One of the bullets of my OP was that the Data/GPS dropping was terrible. Thom said that it's because of the LTE/3G switching. That's why I said that I am rarely ever on the 3G network. Yes, obviously there could be an issue with the LTE/3G switching. But for most of us, this is irrelevant (most people do live in big cities).

Sorry, but I think 1st hand experience is much better than someone's experience with using only 3G (Of course data drops will be rare on 3G!). I don't want to sound rude, but, obviously, my 1st hand experience would entail using different LTE smartphones.

Let's think about it logically: if people are reporting that the ICS leak actually decreased the data drops, then it's pretty obvious that it's the phone and not the network.

No, it suggests it's the software. The fact is, you have completely ignored the fact that just about every 4G phone has had related issues. That right there shows this isn't a Bionic issue, but a network issue.

 

[Adara]

As for the hand off problems that I mentioned .... this is directly associated with authentication ... a good place to start is ... This Is Why Your Verizon Galaxy Nexus (Or Other 4G LTE VZW Phone) Is Losing Its Data Connection ... that is in the reference

This is useful.

But what really annoys the crap out of me is that VZW doesn't own up to it. I mean, why would VZW CSRs (in no particular order) -- (1) deny that there's an overarching problem; (2) tell us to try a factory reset; (3) send us new SIM cards; (4) send us replacement Bionics; or even (5) offer to swap us into RAZRs -- when all they really need to do is say, "We've got a technical problem with phone authentication in the 4G LTE system, and we're trying to fix it model by model -- hopefully it'll get resolved when we get ICS for the Bionic"?

Is it because they're afraid we'd request bill adjustments for all the 4G data we're not getting? Because, really, I knew I was buying into some level of cutting edge technology, and I expected some issues with it. But is it too much to ask for honesty, instead of getting the damn runaround from these people?

(Clearly, my annoyance is more with VZW than Moto.)

 

[Thom]

You might want to repeat these opinions in ... Verizon - Android Forums ... I don't think you are alone.

... Thom

 

[wildkitten]

This is useful.

But what really annoys the crap out of me is that VZW doesn't own up to it. I mean, why would VZW CSRs (in no particular order) -- (1) deny that there's an overarching problem; (2) tell us to try a factory reset; (3) send us new SIM cards; (4) send us replacement Bionics; or even (5) offer to swap us into RAZRs -- when all they really need to do is say, "We've got a technical problem with phone authentication in the 4G LTE system, and we're trying to fix it model by model -- hopefully it'll get resolved when we get ICS for the Bionic"?

Is it because they're afraid we'd request bill adjustments for all the 4G data we're not getting? Because, really, I knew I was buying into some level of cutting edge technology, and I expected some issues with it. But is it too much to ask for honesty, instead of getting the damn runaround from these people?

(Clearly, my annoyance is more with VZW than Moto.)

This has been one of my frustrations with Verizon lately as well. From a customer service standpoint little they are doing makes sense.

First, they go from a loyalty discount to a loyalty fee. That's like telling me "Yeah, please leave us for another carrier when your contract is up". Second, these data share plans are even more expensive and make no sense compared to the single data plans. And of course all the mess surrounding ours, and other, 4G phones.

It's a tough call for me. I have been in places where I have been the only one to get a phone signal, so I know Verizon has the best network out there. Fortunately voice service has not been affected in any way, but I really don't want to stay with a company who is going to make me pay $30 more then a new customer just to stay with them.

I also wonder just how much information those first line of people who answer the phones actually know. The unfortunate fact of the matter, a lot of large businesses don't really let information get through to everyone and the people who answer the phones really are on a script and may not even realize there is an underlying issue. It's one reason I just hate calling in to any form of customer support because it's not really customer support.

And I'm with you, my annoyance is all with Verizon. This phone has been wonderful for what it is. How can it be Motorola's fault that for weeks data was fine, then, when no changes were made to the phone or the software, data starts dropping for so many. This is clearly a Verizon issue as well as them making changes to the network.

Verizon really needs to make some serious changes in how they communicate with their customers as well as treat them.

 

[charlie310]

No, it suggests it's the software. The fact is, you have completely ignored the fact that just about every 4G phone has had related issues. That right there shows this isn't a Bionic issue, but a network issue.

"Phone", "software", it's one of the same. If Verizon was giving us software options, then yes, it would be exclusively a software issue and not a phone issue.

No, I have not ignored anything. The fact remains: My Droid Bionic can't connect to the internet like 40% of the time I try to use it; my roommates Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S3 seldom have data connection problems. Yes, all phones will have issues because of the network. But I'm not talking about occasional data drops. I'm talking about 40% of the time where I have to keep hitting the refresh button over and over and sometimes having to reboot the phone.

The fact is you completely ignoredthe fact that if the ICS leak does drastically reduce the number of data drop issues (as many people have claimed), then IT'S NOT A NETWORK ISSUE!

Your argument appears to be "No, it's not a phone issue. It's a software issue. Which means it's a network issue."

 

[wildkitten]

"Phone", "software", it's one of the same. If Verizon was giving us software options, then yes, it would be exclusively a software issue and not a phone issue.

No, I have not ignored anything. The fact remains: My Droid Bionic can't connect to the internet like 40% of the time I try to use it; my roommates Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S3 seldom have data connection problems. Yes, all phones will have issues because of the network. But I'm not talking about occasional data drops. I'm talking about 40% of the time where I have to keep hitting the refresh button over and over and sometimes having to reboot the phone.

The fact is you completely ignoredthe fact that if the ICS leak does drastically reduce the number of data drop issues (as many people have claimed), then IT'S NOT A NETWORK ISSUE!

Your argument appears to be "No, it's not a phone issue. It's a software issue. Which means it's a network issue."

Phone means a bad phone hardware wise. Bad software is not limited to just one model phone. Hate to breka this to you but ALL the phones have software.

Perhaps the Nexus doesnt have issues, now. Perhaps the Nexus is just not having issues where your friend is. Many with the Bionic have had no 4G data issues, so it's just as likely some with Razr's, Nexus's and other 4G phones are in areas that don't have problems either.

Did you even read the article Thom linked? This goes on to explain that the Nexus and other 4G phones don't just have the occasional data drop that you try to brush it off with.

If you don't want your Bionic, fine, don't use it, your choice. Just don't blindly assume that it is a Bionic specific issue you try ti claim it is.

 

[charlie310]

Phone means a bad phone hardware wise. Bad software is not limited to just one model phone. Hate to breka this to you but ALL the phones have software.

Perhaps the Nexus doesnt have issues, now. Perhaps the Nexus is just not having issues where your friend is. Many with the Bionic have had no 4G data issues, so it's just as likely some with Razr's, Nexus's and other 4G phones are in areas that don't have problems either.

Did you even read the article Thom linked? This goes on to explain that the Nexus and other 4G phones don't just have the occasional data drop that you try to brush it off with.

If you don't want your Bionic, fine, don't use it, your choice. Just don't blindly assume that it is a Bionic specific issue you try ti claim it is.

Thanks for letting me know that all smartphones have software. You missed my point, once again. When I say "Bionic issue", I obviously mean the Bionic with the software. Come on, we all know you can't install the Bionic software on any other phone.

I never said that only the Bionic has this issue. Other phones like the thunderbolt have it has well. And yes, I did read the article. Did you? It specifically states, "The severity of the problem can depend on your device.", not "The severity of the problem doesn't depend on your device, and is exclusively a network issue."

I love how you say I "blindly" assume when I'm giving solid examples. When it's you that is looking the other way.

My argument is: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. My roommates Galaxy Nexus and GSIII doesn't have nearly as many data drops. Therefore, it must be an issue with my phone.

Your argument: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. Therefore, it's a software issue with the Bionic. Thefore, it's not a phone issue. Therefore, it's a problem with their network.

 

[Adara]

To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to

It's a problem with the way the phone connects to the network.

Forgive me for totally dumbing down the situation, but it sounds like it could either be fixed by changing the network to authenticate better (i.e., network problem) or changing the phones' software to respond to failed authentications better (i.e., phone problem).

(Can't we all just get along?)

 

[wildkitten]

Thanks for letting me know that all smartphones have software. You missed my point, once again. When I say "Bionic issue", I obviously mean the Bionic with the software. Come on, we all know you can't install the Bionic software on any other phone.

I never said that only the Bionic has this issue. Other phones like the thunderbolt have it has well. And yes, I did read the article. Did you? It specifically states, "The severity of the problem can depend on your device.", not "The severity of the problem doesn't depend on your device, and is exclusively a network issue."

I love how you say I "blindly" assume when I'm giving solid examples. When it's you that is looking the other way.

My argument is: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. My roommates Galaxy Nexus and GSIII doesn't have nearly as many data drops. Therefore, it must be an issue with my phone.

Your argument: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. Therefore, it's a software issue with the Bionic. Thefore, it's not a phone issue. Therefore, it's a problem with their network.

Your entire thread, in fact the title, is based on how bad this Motorola phone is. The fact is, this isn't a Bionic or a Motorola issue. Yes, I read the article. Guess what, the Nexus is made by Samsung. How can it be Motorola's fault for that having connection problems.

It's also not Motorola's fault that Verizon implemented their authentication in such a horrendous matter. 902 was rock steady when it was released, at least in many peoples area. Some still had some issues. But I was still on 902 when the data issues started occuring this time back around the itme 905 went to soak test. So if it's bad software, why wasn't 902 having all these troubles all along? Sorry, but the fact that something that had been rock solid started having issues tells me quite plainly Verizon changed something on the network.

Also, since it's Verizon's authentication scheme between 3g and 4G that seems to be causing a lot of these problems, it would safe to think they are continually working on it as well. Does ICS clear it up? So it would seem to appear by those using the leaks. Problem is, what happens in 6 months if Verizon does something on their end again?

I am not saying there is not a problem, but you seem to be blaming the wrong thing. It's like you would blame a car manufacturer for the fact your car doesn't give you as smooth a ride because the street developed a bunch of potholes.

 

[charlie310]

My argument is: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. My roommates Galaxy Nexus and GSIII doesn't have nearly as many data drops. Therefore, it must be an issue with my phone.

Your argument: ICS fixes alot of the data drops. Therefore, it's a software issue with the Bionic. Thefore, it's not a phone issue. Therefore, it's a problem with their network.

BTW, I listed 6 reasons why I will never buy another Motorola smartphone. You seem to be fixated on 1 of the 6.

I don't think much more needs to be said.

 

[wildkitten]

BTW, I listed 6 reasons why I will never buy another Motorola smartphone. You seem to be fixated on 1 of the 6.

I don't think much more needs to be said.

I haven't fixated on just one reason, your entire OP is basically the same thing, but I'll address it point by point....

1)You don't go into details about what the software/hardware issues are, so no real way to address this. However, EVERY model of electronics is going to have it's bad units.

2)The data drops are not specific to the Bionic, but you seem to want to focus on it as if it's a Bionic only issue. It's a Verizon problem. Blaming the wrong thing won't get the issue resolved.

3)I can't speak to this directly as I am not a developer and don't get to it. But from what I do know, Motorola isn't the only one with locked bootloaders and I have read enough to know that often bootloaders are locked at the insistance of the carrier.

4) I believe this was already addressed that indeed Motorola is not bringing out a huge number of phones back to back. Yes, it was lousy they brought out the Bionic so late and it was released just before the Razr. The Razr was out when I bought the Bionic, but the sealed battery of the Razr made the decision a no brainer for me personally. Everything but the screens are identical between the 2 model phones.

5) While I think it's bad the Droid 4 got ICS before Bionic, I am glad we didn't get it before the Razr's. The Razr release of ICS was buggy and since the Bionic is so close hardware wise to the Razr, we would likely have seen the same bugs had we gotten it.

6)Your personal opinion. The phone has been wonderful for me. My complaints do not come from the fact it's a Motorola, but how the Android OS works as well as the data drops which is not a Bionic issue, yet you seem to want to try to make a Bionic issue. Yes, I want the data drop issue fixed, but I am not going to complain about the wrong thing.

 

[New Rising]

BTW, I listed 6 reasons why I will never buy another Motorola smartphone. You seem to be fixated on 1 of the 6.

I don't think much more needs to be said.

The ics leak does indeed fix the data connection, I used to drop data all the time until i installed the 232 leak. It's like a completely different phone now, I honestly don't think I've dropped data since i installed it over a month ago now. It's probably better to stop complaining and just install the 232 leak and be happy. I will agree that it is frustrating that we haven't received ics yet though.

 

[wildkitten]

The ics leak does indeed fix the data connection, I used to drop data all the time until i installed the 232 leak. It's like a completely different phone now, I honestly don't think I've dropped data since i installed it over a month ago now. It's probably better to stop complaining and just install the 232 leak and be happy. I will agree that it is frustrating that we haven't received ics yet though.

My only concern of this is, what was it, 889, fixed the data issue, then 902 was just fine, until about the time 905 went to soak. Many people complained it was 905 that "broke" the data but many of us were still on 902. Can we be sure Verizon won't do something a month or two after we get ICS that causes data to start dropping again?

 

[dautley]

Can we be sure Verizon won't do something a month or two after we get ICS that causes data to start dropping again?

Who can say? We can't even really be sure we'll even be here in a month or two can we?

 

[DrJwC]

My only concern of this is, what was it, 889, fixed the data issue, then 902 was just fine, until about the time 905 went to soak. Many people complained it was 905 that "broke" the data but many of us were still on 902. Can we be sure Verizon won't do something a month or two after we get ICS that causes data to start dropping again?

Been reading the posts here and I can't help but notice that people must think Verizon just threw a 4G network out there and walked away. The network is, without a doubt, ever evolving. So your point about the time between updates and some worked and some don't is logically correct. If they were to release ics and a few days or a month later make another long term improvement to the network, it could bring back data problems and you would be right back where you are now. If I were driving around I would expect to get 'data drops' as I moved between towers and in and out of coverage so why not just turn on the wifi when you are stationary?!?

 

[wildkitten]

Been reading the posts here and I can't help but notice that people must think Verizon just threw a 4G network out there and walked away. The network is, without a doubt, ever evolving. So your point about the time between updates and some worked and some don't is logically correct. If they were to release ics and a few days or a month later make another long term improvement to the network, it could bring back data problems and you would be right back where you are now. If I were driving around I would expect to get 'data drops' as I moved between towers and in and out of coverage so why not just turn on the wifi when you are stationary?!?

Sometimes someone isn't around wifi.

And you're right, it is ever evolving and nothing wrong with that. What seems to be where the problem stems from is how Verizon wanted both 3G and 4G to authenticate the same way from a 4G phone. 3G runs on the CDMA portion of the network, whereas 4G LTE is more of an evolution of GSM, which Verizon never used for 2G and 3G. From what I gather reading, this is where the problem lies because the data drops are actually authentication issues and not properly authenticating. So it seems Verizon didn't exactly implement the network in the best manner.