Zimmerman: Let's try this again...

[sntaylor]

The issue here is gun laws, he used it to protect himself and it was not against the law. If he had a pepper spray, OSA handgun (shoots rubber bullets), electro shocker, instead of a gun, kid would be still alive.

Not just that, from what I gather by everyone saying, Zimmerman was a wimp...if he had not been carrying a gun, he would not have kept in following the idiot boy(there was never any need for him to attack Zimmerman, but it has been proven that young men(teens) are unable to sense fear and actually perceive it as hostility which is probably a partial reason for him attacking Zimmerman, not that it makes it any more right!)

basically my point is if he hadn't a gun, he would have backed off and wouldn't have been in a fight for him to need to protect himself!

 

[PrinceCorwin]

The issue here is gun laws, he used it to protect himself and it was not against the law. If he had a pepper spray, OSA handgun (shoots rubber bullets), electro shocker, instead of a gun, kid would be still alive.

Not just that, from what I gather by everyone saying, Zimmerman was a wimp...if he had not been carrying a gun, he would not have kept in following the idiot boy(there was never any need for him to attack Zimmerman, but it has been proven that young men(teens) are unable to sense fear and actually perceive it as hostility which is probably a partial reason for him attacking Zimmerman, not that it makes it any more right!)

basically my point is if he hadn't a gun, he would have backed off and wouldn't have been in a fight for him to need to protect himself!

We currently have a terrible epidemic in this country. It's a form of Stockholm Syndrome to which millions have fallen prey. They empathize with and feel sorry for the ACTUAL perpetrators of crime, seeking any means to justify their deviance. And they harbor animosity for the victims of these perpetrators, seeking any means to criminalize them.

Strange thing is... Those affected by this plague will probably think I'm talking about people who agree that GZ did nothing wrong.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Not just that, from what I gather by everyone saying, Zimmerman was a wimp...if he had not been carrying a gun, he would not have kept in following the idiot boy(there was never any need for him to attack Zimmerman, but it has been proven that young men(teens) are unable to sense fear and actually perceive it as hostility which is probably a partial reason for him attacking Zimmerman, not that it makes it any more right!)

basically my point is if he hadn't a gun, he would have backed off and wouldn't have been in a fight for him to need to protect himself!

SNT, you not being from the U.S. (I presume) has you not being aware of some very relevant points about the "not backing down because he had a gun" part.

I disagree that carrying gives you any major feeling of superiority. It is usually stressed very highly in our concealed weapons classes how difficult life is going to be for you even IF you shoot someone undeniably in self defense. The interruption to your life and Massive legal fees are a BIG deterrent to actually using a firearm when it's not really needed. The only disruption to your life WORSE than actually USING a firearm legally is DYING because you didn't have one to use.

Zimmy's gun confidant is a Federal Air Marshal. Those are pretty bad boys. I highly suspect that he gave Zimmy Much More Emphasis on what the downsides are to actually using a concealed weapon than the average permit holder received in their training.

Someone who carries doesn't look for an excuse to even bring their pistol into view. Just someone seeing your pistol peek out from under a shirt can get you some severe rousting by the cops. Some may feel Florida has lax gun laws but they enforce the ones they have stringently. It is very easy to expose your pistol in public accidentally and lose your permit for doing so which costs you a fair amount of money and time to obtain. Just having a gun VISIBLE with you when you commit a crime in Fla is TEN YEARS added on to that crime's sentence with you not even having to TOUCH the gun in commission of that crime.

Always, always, alway, the firearm is The Last Resort, but it's really nice to have it there IF A last resort is needed. "I'm not going to worry about getting into a fight because I have this gun on me if I need it." IS NOT the mentality of the average concealed weapons permit holder.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[pbf98]

I my self have a permit to carry, I have the choice to open carry or conceal carry in my state. I can tell you I do not feel any bit of superiority when I am carrying, there is a bit of stress that comes with carrying. I don't want to have to use it, but I know I have it if I ever need to.

Those who choose to have a permit to carry/ conceal are watched very closely, and in some states it is a pain to get pulled over for a minor violation. We must abide by strict rules to keep and maintain our permits.

And if he had those non lethal alternatives you can't say that he would have been able to fully defend himself, it could have made the situation worse for himself. Rubber bullets hurt like heck, but you still can continue pursuit after being shot with them. Tasers will bring someone to the ground, but you have to be close and its not something that you can do and wait for police to show up. I'm sure if there would have been away for Zimmerman to stop the assault and subdue Martin and wait for the cops to show up he would have done that. Because assaulting someone like that doesn't really say I'm not up to no good.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Your last sentence is a little but the rest of it is well said.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Interesting.

Waiting for a Verdict

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[pbf98]

There is a double negative, I was trying to say that assaulting someone in the fashion Martin did, doesn't really go to show he's doing no bad. Assaulting anyone in any fashion really doesn't help your plea of innocence. And that if Zimmerman would have been able to get Martin off him and subdue him with out need be of even touching his gun he would have chosen that rout instead.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

I'm getting kind of sick and tired of reading all these posts about decisions/options/strategies during the assault. I think most of these posters have never been in a real fight. I mean a fight with a stranger... when you have absolutely NO idea of the motives and intent of your enemy. This wasn't a supervised boxing match where, even though it is violent, both parties are relatively sure that there is not a great deal of danger to their lives. In that situation, you are able to think and make choices due to the fact that you are not in any REAL fear of your life.

When someone attacks you, everthing happens in a split second and if any opportunity is present to allow you to preserve your safety and/or life, you take it, especially if they have the upper hand in the battle. Period.

BTW... still think more charges are to come.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I'm getting kind of sick and tired of reading all these posts about decisions/options/strategies during the assault. I think most of these posters have never been in a real fight. I mean a fight with a stranger... when you have absolutely NO idea of the motives and intent of your enemy. This wasn't a supervised boxing match where, even though it is violent, both parties are relatively sure that there is not a great deal of danger to their lives. In that situation, you are able to think and make choices due to the fact that you are not in any REAL fear of your life.

When someone attacks you, everthing happens in a split second and if any opportunity is present to allow you to preserve your safety and/or life, you take it, especially if they have the upper hand in the battle. Period.

BTW... still think more charges are to come.

And . . .

Until you asre faced with a problem, you do not know what you will do about it. I agree, those that have avoided violence their entire life and only know what a fight is from the movies and TV really do not know what to do; never mind, how to do it.

Sometimes, it is posturing and running their mouth and sometimes, a knidfe or a gun appears.

Until you are there, you have nary a clue.

 

[unnamedny]

I'm getting kind of sick and tired of reading all these posts about decisions/options/strategies during the assault. I think most of these posters have never been in a real fight. I mean a fight with a stranger... when you have absolutely NO idea of the motives and intent of your enemy. This wasn't a supervised boxing match where, even though it is violent, both parties are relatively sure that there is not a great deal of danger to their lives. In that situation, you are able to think and make choices due to the fact that you are not in any REAL fear of your life.

When someone attacks you, everthing happens in a split second and if any opportunity is present to allow you to preserve your safety and/or life, you take it, especially if they have the upper hand in the battle. Period.

BTW... still think more charges are to come.

Well I think it matters. If someone just push you around that you can not stand on you feet is one thing. If you get senseless beating from someone is another story. If he had a chance to shoot him somewhere else other than torso that raises questions. He could have just given a warning shot into the air to scare the kid as well. Technically, it does matter how he was beaten up.

But again, he used gun to defend himself which is perfectly legal.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

If he had a chance to shoot him somewhere else other than torso that raises questions. He could have just given a warning shot into the air to scare the kid as well. Technically, it does matter how he was beaten up.

But again, he used gun to defend himself which is perfectly legal.

You aim for center torso and shoot until there is no more danger. For reason. You are under extreme stress. MOST people suck at marksmenship under stress like that. Aiming for an arm or leg means a much higher chance of missing and hitting someone else. If the person were armed with be it gun or concrete, they can often (having nothing more to lose) continue Their attack after being wounded until YOU stop them. Center torso is a target a nearly legal blind person could hit successfully at the ranges most altercations happen at.

(There are also reasons why the old west sayin, "Dead men tell no tales." has endured so long. )

So far as warning shots go. You should know better than listen to your stupid Vice President. Warning shoots are FELONIES in most places that aren't hunting woods. (In fact, there HAVE BEEN people ARRESTED Since VP Biden flap his ignorant lips about warning shots who said they were just doing what Biden told them to. )

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

(Since my ability to edit a post of mine has been removed, I'll have to "edit" it this way.)

Re; my "your Stupid Vice President" comment above. Let me be clear. That wasn't meant TOWARDS the member I was responding to, Biden the mental turnip is MY Stupid Vice President too even if I didn't vote for him.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Seems as though the anti Zimmerman media feeding frenzy has died down a bit. Could this be a sign that it is finally blowing over? Hope so.

I said in my OP that I predict more charges. I would be delighted to be wrong.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

I actually had another card up my sleeve when I said nothing much more would come from the Zimmy case. The card was actually "given to me" by a girl friend I have when she said it about the Newtown shootings. [1]

My "refined" card up my sleeve was this; If no major changes happen with 26 people, 21 of them being children getting blown away, then nothing major will come from what to most any sane, KNOWLEDGEABLE person, is a just finish to the Zimmy case just because it involves one dead even black kid.

[1] She's a pacifist libie. She said the 2 sides where too divided and the pro gun lobby too strong for anything to come out of it. She was 100% correct.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[unnamedny]

You aim for center torso and shoot until there is no more danger. For reason. You are under extreme stress. MOST people suck at marksmenship under stress like that. Aiming for an arm or leg means a much higher chance of missing and hitting someone else. If the person were armed with be it gun or concrete, they can often (having nothing more to lose) continue Their attack after being wounded until YOU stop them. Center torso is a target a nearly legal blind person could hit successfully at the ranges most altercations happen at.

(There are also reasons why the old west sayin, "Dead men tell no tales." has endured so long. )

So far as warning shots go. You should know better than listen to your stupid Vice President. Warning shoots are FELONIES in most places that aren't hunting woods. (In fact, there HAVE BEEN people ARRESTED Since VP Biden flap his ignorant lips about warning shots who said they were just doing what Biden told them to. )

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

He followed him and he should have taking possibility of conflict into consideration, but I guess he didn't. I'd rather get a felony from shooting up in the air first than taking some kids life away.

I have to agree with you that torso is easy to aim, but arm or a leg should be the target in this sort of situations unless other person is armed. I think you watch too many Hollywood movies if you think wounded person can continue to fight with the same strength. I know there is an adrenaline rush, but come on, lets get real.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

He followed him and he should have taking possibility of conflict into consideration, but I guess he didn't. I'd rather get a felony from shooting up in the air first than taking some kids life away.

I have to agree with you that torso is easy to aim, but arm or a leg should be the target in this sort of situations unless other person is armed. I think you watch too many Hollywood movies if you think wounded person can continue to fight with the same strength. I know there is an adrenaline rush, but come on, lets get real.

I think YOU watch too many Hollywood movies if you think common people (NOT movie heroes) can think, act, and aim well enough for warning shots, specific arm/leg shots, etc when on the losing end of a surprise violent attack.

This debate is REALLY getting ridiculous.

 

[unnamedny]

I think YOU watch too many Hollywood movies if you think common people (NOT movie heroes) can think, act, and aim well enough for warning shots, specific arm/leg shots, etc when on the losing end of a surprise violent attack.

This debate is REALLY getting ridiculous.

Let's not get too emotional about it. What I meant is when you shoot somebody into their feet possibility of musle, joint or band failure is high. This probably would have stopped the fight.

I'm no against Zimmerman, I don't think he is guilty, but i think there could have been a "better" outcome in that fight with Martin.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Let's not get too emotional about it. What I meant is when you shoot somebody into their feet possibility of musle, joint or band failure is high. This probably would have stopped the fight.

I'm no against Zimmerman, I don't think he is guilty, but i think there could have been a "better" outcome in that fight with Martin.

Whatever. Good grief!