Health Care - STOP believeing the BULL and buying the SCAM


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  1. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I am from the US. My family is still there. I live in Canada.

    The crap you hear about how bad the Canadian system is...is a GIANT LIE. I have my family Doctor that I picked as does everyone else. At one point I had two of them...lol. I was moving from one end of the city to another so there was overlap. One was male the other female BUT BOTH GOOD PEOPLE and DOCTORS.

    We have some of the BEST hospitals in the world and made some of the biggest breakthrough in medicine.
    Google Sick Kids Hospital.

    We have NOTHING to worry about should anything happen to us.
    They send a firetruck and ambulance to help you. You have no idea as to that FREEDOM. Think about it. Your decisions for life and death is decided by your HMO. Mine is decided by my fellow Citizens which is a mutually assured protected self serving interest system.

    Yes, we have some improvements to make to the system.
    We do that based on the research. We do our best to ensure the money is being spent wisely and to not waste. Let's say for whatever reason you feel that you are getting shafted. Just send an email to any news outlet and watch how instantly it is fixed.
    Politicians FEAR the results for messing with people's Healthcare but they grew up understanding he importance of it to the country and their family therefore they for the most part do NOT mess with it. Mess with health care and YOU and YOUR PARTY will SUFFER for YEARS of not a decade. See the built in safeguards to keep the politics out of it.:D

    If I see my family Dr. for whatever "issue" WE decide what specialist I can go see for further help. I decide who I see.
    Sure I may have to wait for a month for an MRI scan if it's something MINOR...big deal, priority BUT if they see or feel or think there is a serious problem then it happens ASAP as in right away or the next day.

    True Story- Family friend, male 48 at the time, non smoker, non drinker, not over weight...went in for a physical, Dr. did not like the sound of his heart beat...sent him down for x-rays and blood work.
    Result- he was being operated on the next morning because they found a blockage in his artery. I think he had a double or quadruple bypass. See that, no waiting, NO APPROVAL NEEDED FROM ANYONE, and NO FEAR of losing his house to pay for the surgery.
    They said had he not come in for his checkup he would likely been dead within the month or two.

    I am free to go see more Doctors for the 2nd or 3rd opinion.
    Our Doctors (at least the 10 or so I have come across plus the 4 or so that I know socially) will do WHATEVER they can to help the patient. There is NO BOARD OR HMO to get approval from.
    THAT is such a F'ing joke that you need an HMO to approve treatment. WRONG!


    God forbid the crap I see people have to suffer from in the US.
    It is sad that you have to choose losing your house or healing a sick child. That is just WRONG on every level of being a human.

    If you pay for car insurance and or house insurance then you know all you are doing is spreading your risk amongst the pool of people to keep your rates affordable. Those things have a definite replacement cost, fixing a human does not. We have a SOCIAL MEDICAL SYSTEM. It is more of a moral and fundamental belief system and makes economic sense.

    A nation has only 2 things to keep it prosperous and from being "conquered"1. Education - a stupid nation can not make anything to advance 2. Health - A sick nation will just kill themselves and just be too weak to work and easy to "invade". Think about it. Do you want a country that is smart and healthy or dumb and sickly?

    Think about this.
    Health care is probably the ONLY business where a company has to keep spending money to fix the patient BUT how or why would you expect that company to spend their money on you. You or your family member could be a "money pit" to them. They have share holders to pay and CEO's etc... They have to show financial growth every year so they DRAW the line which is YOU. YOU have a price tag to them and they have the power to just say NO or change the rules. Do you think that is a fair moral and ethical system?

    btw if you are a prolife advocate then by default you should also be anti-HMO. At some point that HMO will make a decision to let you DIE.

    TRUE STORY...A Dr. friend of mine asked me an ethical and financial question. They said a baby will be born BUT we already know it has a grave disease as it has no brain and will be dead in less than a month. Should we abort it, or kill it at birth, because at the end of the day we will spend THOUSANDS of dollars on immanent failure and that money could be saved for other people.

    They asked me what would I do. It was a damn hard question to answer given the indisputable FACTS. I said I am a realist and like to save money wherever possible BUT this is a damn tough choice because whether you believe in God or not you are setting the standard to kill a life due to money. I said I would do what we can to keep it alive for as long as we can. We should do our best to treat the baby with dignity and respect and yes, spend the money. Money can be replaced, human life and the morality of humanity can not be.

    I hope none of you ever run into having a HMO tell you no, we spent the allotted funds on your kid, no more will be spent meaning they will die. Is that the country you want? So big deal, we suck it up and pay the extra 5 cents or $1 it would cost me as a tax payer to keep the defective baby alive in dignity. I will sleep better at night. It just means I skip buying a cup of coffee that month if I drank coffee...lol (damn 1 Starbucks coffee could save 5 lives)

    Greed and making money from the sick and dying will NEVER work in your favor if you are the "sick" or your child is...at some point we will all pretty much be the "sick". Your decisions today will provide the answer and result you need for YOUR tomorrow.


    Got questions? Feel free to ask. I will be happy to try and answer them.

    btw- The Canadian system was good enough when Sarah Palin sneaked her family in for treatment when she was poor as she stated but yet our system was not good enough for the rest of you...hmmmm
     

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  2. GreatBigDave

    GreatBigDave Well-Known Member

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    Interesting stuff.
     
  3. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thanks for reading but I would have been interested in your comments or questions. I am intersted in this learning how and why people do not embrace this as a greater good for THEMSELVES of all things (unless you are Rick Scott...lol...the medicare fraudster convicted of billions in fines is now Governor and of all places...Florida)

    Obama has traveled the world. He is a brilliant person. He is acting in the betterment of the US vs. what Bush and Cheney did to and for you. One president left you broke and f*cked but the new guy is trying to improve the Citizen's Quality of Living and standards of living.

    How much further would the US be if every citizen was granted a University Education and Health care...damn, there would be an American flag in just about every country by now. Seriously think about it. Is your country trying to make you a smarter and healthier nation because all I see is broke and soon to be sick (obesity, cancer, and old age) are knocking at the door. I think obesity is answering the door right now.

    He has the right idea. You need a social health care system.
    You are just paying the HMO more money and your wages in turn or cut because the company you work for can't afford to give you a raise and pay for your "health plan".

    Hell, even Cuba offers FREE health care and get this FREE kindergarten to University education to ALL of this people.
    Yes, save the debate about the Communism etc...
    He is on a tiny island cut off from trade and US $$$ YET he can offer this to the CITIZENS of Cuba BUT the RICHEST country on the planet does neither.

    btw- Cuba has some of the BEST Neuro Surgeons in the world. They actually have some serious medicine but hey, the US media keeps treating us like dummies. I guess the US government and media does NOT want YOU getting any bright ideas...lol
     
  4. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday VIP Member

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    I'm really interested in finding out more information on the French health care system since I will be spending the next 1 1/2 years there. :) When I come back, I'll be very interested to join a debate regarding health care if France comes up.
     
  5. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

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    tl;dr

    A 5th grader will tell you there is no such thing as free. You clearly don't understand your system as well as you want us to believe.

    I grew up in Europe. Free healthcare, free kindergarten, free universities. All you pay is...get this....%50 of your paycheck right off the top. And this with a population density of over 3 times what we have in the states.
     
  6. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Please buy yourself a new calculator or do you believe the $200 million a day myth also? Let me help you with some basic #'s Population of USA about 350 million people. Population of Canada about 30 million, we are usually about 10% of the US population. We are the 2nd largest country of land mass. So a BIG country with only 30 million people WITH GUARANTEED HEALTH CARE...and the BEST BANKING SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, so how is it that the USA the RICHEST nation on the planet is BEHIND and in so much turmoil. Perhaps you should try something new or different.

    OBVIOUSLY we pay for it as a COUNTRY because the MUTUAL benefit to help the COUNTRY succeed is far greater than self righteous greed. We spread the risk therefore reducing the cost to an individual.
    We believe in that UNIVERSAL truth to take care of your fellow "man" or treat others as you wish to be treated. It has worked quite well so far for this country.
    We take great PRIDE ensuring that our Healthcare system COVERS ALL NO MATTER WHAT...know why...BECAUSE IT could easily be one of US in dire need at any moment. Can you grasp that concept.

    It's a price we GLADLY pay to live in a Country that is pretty much in the top 5 of every measure. We enjoy living in this nation. We make an effort to constantly improve upon. Yes, we have different Political parties BUT we run on a Parliamentarian system as well.


    Why don't you add up what your costs are and your co pays and when things kick in and out then you will really see who pays more.


    GET THIS...I NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HEALTH CARE but you can not say the same. If you lose that job that provides you those benefits then what. Even with your job, you have a bean counter that has placed a cap on your head or worse your kids.


    Please tell us what good that pile of money will do you when you are in the ground. It's about quality of life while you are ALIVE and access to care.

    You exemplify exactly what is going wrong in your country.
    You provide no solution, you provide no type of analysis but instead cynical and critical of those that do and or try.

    Riddle me this, why the great and proud USA, we hate the Communist and everything they stand for had no problems asking CHINA for money. How the hell did the USA end up being in debt to China?

    Please do not be one of those sheeple that is not capable of critical thought and reasoning. You are unable to refute anything I wrote yet you make yourself look stupid with your dim whited replies.

    btw- we will gladly sell YOU water at $100 per gallon in a plastic bag. Go read about the global H2O issues.

    You and your country would be better served if you stopped being slaves and sheeps and started looking around the world and adopting the best practices to make your nation stronger, smarter, and healthier.

    Have you ever been to Canada?
    If so where, when, and for how long?
     
  7. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    The information is online plus 60 minutes did a piece on it a year or 2 ago. I think you might stay there when you see the quality of life they have. You will "kill yourself laughing" when you see all the stuff they get.

    As a visitor, get this...if you get sick and need medical treatment...it's FREE and they WILL TREAT YOU...no HMO approval needed. Get this, they actually have HMO's but they work in conjunction with the Government and abide by Government rules.
    So Socialism works with Capitalism...who would have thunk it...lol

    Please send pics and create a thread while you are there.

    Did you know Europe shuts down for 1 month for vacation?
    This excludes the regular vacation time and family time.
    Yet they still have a healthy Capitalist system.
    In the USA you are lucky if you get 2 weeks paid vacation.
    In the USA if you have a kid you get 5 days off I think then back tow work for the woman.

    If you have a kid in France you get about 1 year or 2 years off to raise the kid. They pay you via benefits and provide home nurses and helpers to clean etc...Daycare is about $1 a day or so (I think not 100% on that statement but it's dirt cheap).

    Canada gives you 1 year off but you can split that time between the mother and father. We provide benefits (you get about $2k max per month) but not as good as France.

    Europe is an older society vs. the 200+ years of being America.
    It's about QUALITY OF LIFE to them.
     
  8. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Your Politician's are AWESOME LIARS and GIANT HYPOCRITES.

    ALL those AGAINST any kind of Government health care should turn in their FREE GOVERNMENT health care card.

    ALL of your Politicians and their family is COVERED. It's good enough for them but why isn't it good enough for you? Oh, right someone is paying them to tell you how bad it is going to be for YOU.

    Can someone start a site requesting that ALL Tea Party members of Government REFUSE the Government plan. Ask them to pass a Bill that will allow them to opt out BUT they have to use THEIR own money to buy plans from HMO's just like the rest of you.

    OBAMA CARE is GOOD for THEM but NOT for YOU???
    Let's see who will do it?
     
  9. Ninja Monkey

    Ninja Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the giant hole in your support of Canadian health care is that it won't translate to the MUCH larger American population. I think the system sounds good but I just don't think it would work in the US.
     
  10. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    How much do you spend on the Defense budget?
    The cold war is over. Do you see China with Massive military spend? Do you see them invading other countries because they can if they wanted to? No, their history has been built on always building and strengthening their EMPIRE slowly but surely. Do some quick reading and you will realize why they built that wall and how they got the different parties to agree to one country and even today no matter the ruler they have one essential goal, grow and conquer slowly but surely. The don't need to fire 1 bullet at any nation, they just supply you with your own drugs called cash and credit. When you owe the bank or a bookey, who has the power and calls the shots in that relationship?

    How much did you spend on just the Iraq war alone? What did your people get...nothing...how many schools could have been built and modernized. Yes, that invasion could have paid for every American on the health care system alone.

    There is enough money to cover the nation and to educate everyone but hey it's better to keep your Citizens dumb down.
    As for making it work, hmm Medicare, Government Employees, Military has that system.

    At the LEAST you could start by covering people under 24 and for damn sure kids under 18, no ifs ands or buts.:D
     
  11. jmj45

    jmj45 Member

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    Something that you did not touch on was how little doctors in Canada are paid. They are some of the most highly trained people in society and useless lawyers are paid more.
     
  12. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    PayScale Canada - People with Jobs as Physicians / Doctors Salary, Average Salaries by Job

    They get paid more than that because that is their base salary and they get paid per patient visit also. So think of you get a guaranteed salary PLUS you get paid for every patient you see (commission) AND the Hospitals also have incentives to attract the better talent. My soon to be Dr. friend told me Radiologists start at $200k and go up. The older Doctors (45+) that I know are all millionaires.

    Plus you can setup your own specialized clinics which is another source of income. There is LOTS of incentives for them but the main goal is they have FREEDOM to PRACTICE MEDICINE.

    You have a tiny bit of a point there if we compare to US Doctors. They are paid very well here. They have their Agency that sets the rates for them and it increases yearly. The Doctors I know live in nice areas and drive expensive cars.
    They are not poor or hurting.

    Our Doctors do NOT answer to an HMO. Dumb ass humans made medicine a profit incentive which by default if you think about it, it should not be. I mean medicine as far as hand on treatment goes not R&D.

    They even offer incentives to work in smaller or rural communities. Lawyers are an extension and result of the Capitalist system, right :D

    I thought the #1 reason one should or would want to become a Doctor is to help heal people and find cures versus becoming rich:D

    Personally Teachers (and Nurses) need to be paid more as they are in control of a Nations wealth and success.

    Think about this as I sat in the delivery room watching the magic of delivering a baby. You began life in the care of a Nurse and Doctor, now you made it out...the next person that child will spend A LOT of time with is a TEACHER. So from healthy body to hopefully educated mind are in the hands of someone else. I was really awestruck by level of care and concern from the Nurses.
    They are amazing people but I guess a CEO needs to have a $1 gold toilet to pee and poo into. A leader of anything should be measured by how much better off did they leave the people from the time they were in charge. Money will come, this we know...but how much greed can one person have. Greed is a sin in the Bible in all "Bibles" of global Religion but yet their is no scorn for such people. EVERYONE on this planet has 1 thing in common and 1 absolute guarantee...from a President to a pauper...we will all die.

    Ever notice how old tyrants and wrong doers seem to realize and wish they did things differently just before they die? Perhaps we need to begin with the end in mind therefore leaving our children with a better place than we had or is that too much to ask.
     
  13. Gritwater

    Gritwater Banned

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    I HAD a canadian uncle who had stomach issues in Aug 09. He couldn't get a doctors appointment until jan 10 when he was diagnosed with Stage 3 Pancreatic cancer. I wonder, if he could have walked right in and seen a dr in Aug, what stage the cancer was in at that point, and if they could have gotten it then?

    But on a brighter note, he didn't have to pay for the visit 4 months after he really needed to see the doc. That's a point that, I'm sure, comforts my widowed aunt and 30 y.o. son.

    hooray for free health care.


    If I want to go to the doc tomorrow, I can do it. No waiting
     
  14. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    WOW! You sound just like one of those tv ads or town hall people.

    Please answer the following:

    1. What city was he in?


    It's easy to jump on and say things but let's see some facts.
    I call BS, it's funny how you did not post that MUCH earlier.

    What is wrong with you man, do you just live by hyperbole?

    I already stated that we have our OWN FAMILY Doctor.
    So you have a relationship with them. I have NEVER waited to see my Doctor.
    At one point I had TWO.

    We have walk in clinics that are owned by Doctors and are quality places not some crap hole meant to rake in $$$. It's part of a strategy to reduce emergency room visits for minor things. Most of the clinics are within eyesight of a hospital or located in a shopping plaza.
     
  15. Gritwater

    Gritwater Banned

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    do you also want his ID#, telephone, passport ID and blood sample from his oldest son? What does it matter.... are you suggesting that Quebec has better coverage than Alberta, or vice versa? That wouldn't be universal then.

    I'll say British Columbia.
     
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  16. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Based on that answer, you are full of crap.
    Lame try on fear mongering, I guess you should update to Fox Fear Mongering 2.0.

    BTW- Learn to read or Google better.
    I asked you "1. What city was he in?"
    You replied with the name of Provinces(States)... which demonstrates that you tried to make your pathetic story by Googling Canada yet FAILED to answer the basic question which for such a traumatic event people tend to know basic info and do not reply the way you did by trying to make fun of a situation in a game show type response.
     
  17. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

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    Arguing with people who think a decent universally accessible healthcare system is somehow wrong will get you nowhere.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Gritwater

    Gritwater Banned

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    I saw what you posted.... I chose not to answer it. All you need to know for this thread is Canada where universal healthcare exists. It makes no difference I tell you Victoria, or Toronto, Iqaluit, or yellowknife. I met you half way and gave you the province. I'm not going to give you the man's home address and cell phone number just because you THINK that makes a difference. He was in British Columbia.


    You are avoiding the issue based on a minor technicality that has no bearing on this conversation. Maybe in your "utopia" privacy issues are moot, but for the privacy of my uncle, I'm not saying which city/hospital/doctor, etc.
     
  19. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thank you sir:D BUT in the end I am COVERED (as you know, Canada)...just trying to help some others understand. Here is a rope to pull you out of the lake, take it or don't...I am not going to drown since I am standing on dry land. I take comfort in knowing that I tried, I sleep better at night.
     
  20. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the UK, also well covered. Our healthcare system, while not perfect, is something our country is very proud of.

    During the US presidential elections Sarah Palin spouted some rubbish about "death panels" - what was that about? :rolleyes:

    I'm with you all the way with this one. :)
     
  21. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Let me once again help you with some FACTS.
    1. Pancreatic Cancer- 95% chance you are DEAD in 6 months or less. I think only God can save you from that cancer.

    PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF--it's cheap and "free"
    Google is your friend or is Google Socialist for not charging you access to all this information?
    BTW- did you ever use a library book---if so then you are a SOCIALIST...attend public school...Socialist again.

    Pancreatic Cancer Treatment - National Cancer Institute

    Stages of Pancreatic Cancer Key Points for This Section [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Tests and procedures to stage pancreatic cancer are usually done at the same time as diagnosis.
    There are three ways that cancer spreads in the body.
    The three ways that cancer spreads in the body are:

    • Through tissue. Cancer invades the surrounding normal tissue.
    • Through the lymph system. Cancer invades the lymph system and travels through the lymph vessels to other places in the body.
    • Through the blood. Cancer invades the veins and capillaries and travels through the blood to other places in the body.
    When cancer cells break away from the primary (original) tumor and travel through the lymph or blood to other places in the body, another (secondary) tumor may form. This process is called metastasis. The secondary (metastatic) tumor is the same type of cancer as the primary tumor. For example, if breast cancer spreads to the bones, the cancer cells in the bones are actually breast cancer cells. The disease is metastatic breast cancer, not bone cancer.
    The following stages are used for pancreatic cancer:
    Stage 0 (Carcinoma in Situ)
    In stage 0, abnormal cells are found in the lining of the pancreas. These abnormal cells may become cancer and spread into nearby normal tissue. Stage 0 is also called carcinoma in situ.
    Enlarge [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Pea, peanut, walnut, and lime show tumor sizes.
    Stage I
    In stage I, cancer has formed and is found in the pancreas only. Stage I is divided into stage IA and stage IB, based on the size of the tumor.

    Stage II
    In stage II, cancer may have spread to nearby tissue and organs, and may have spread to lymph nodes near the pancreas. Stage II is divided into stage IIA and stage IIB, based on where the cancer has spread.

    Stage III
    In stage III, cancer has spread to the major blood vessels near the pancreas and may have spread to nearby lymph nodes.
    Stage IV
    In stage IV, cancer may be of any size and has spread to distant organs, such as the liver, lung, and peritoneal cavity. It may have also spread to organs and tissues near the pancreas or to lymph nodes.
     
  22. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    http://cancer.emedtv.com/pancreatic-cancer/pancreatic-cancer-survival-rates-p2.html


    Overall Survival Rates

    Survival rates can be calculated by different methods for different purposes. The pancreatic cancer survival rates presented here are based on the relative survival rate. The relative survival rate measures the survival of cancer patients in comparison to the general population to estimate the effect of cancer. The overall five-year relative survival rate for pancreatic cancer between 1995 and 2001 was 4.6 percent.

    Let me help you comprehend. That means you have a 95.4% chance of DEATH.

    btw- I already knew this information because I have friends that are Dr.'s and I knew of 2 people that died from this and it's pretty damn accurate both within 6 months (50 years old, male and a female).

    Google Patrick Swayze cause of death and time it took him.

    I am sorry to say but your "uncle" was a dead man walking.

     
  23. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    *starts petition to repeal the repealing of the Act of Union* xD (seriously guys we are begging, the deficit is practically flooding through my door)
     
  24. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

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    You know, I usually lean conservative, but that post, well that was the best post demonstrating the benefits of such a system. But our current medical billing system is a sham. That's what needs to be fixed.
     
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  25. droiduzr2

    droiduzr2 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thanks for taking the time to read it.
    Think about medicine this way and I hope it makes things even clearer for you. How can you turn a profit from sick people? How can you profit year after year with increases? For me to keep profiting it means like any other business something has to go...that something is well...YOU or your FAMILY. Yes, money can be made in RnD, medical devices etc... but you have a clear conflict of interest when you are trying to care for a person. For a Christian Nation I am surprised that people put profit over human care.

    Again, feel free to ask me any questions you may have. PM if you like.
     

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