Official 4G/WiMax: what is it, why do we want it

[WhiteNoise]

24mbs?!!!

yes

 

[dandm4life]

We've been through this quite a bit in this thread. In my opinion, it's more like the shoe is on the other foot. At CTIA, Hesse talked about Spectrum or bandwidth quite a bit. He said they had plenty of it, so it's entirely possible to tether 8 other WiFi devices to the EVO. This would never be possible with LTE, because it doesn't have the spectrum. The speeds mentioned here for LTE don't mean that much. That's because I believe WiMAX 2 gives WiMAX a speed boost and according to RiverOfIce, the speeds are capped. Hopefully he will add more when he visits later. He's the most knowledgeable of all our forum members on the subject. All of his posts are worth reading, but here is his first post.

As soon as LTE becomes popular and a lot of devices are using it, it will be like trying to blow wet concrete through a drinking straw. Not enough room for it to move quickly.

 

[esone1ll]

Yes Mediacom | Internet | Mediacom Online Max says 20 but I routinely get 24 down, and I still wish it was faster. This is my benchmark when we are talking speed, mobile or wired.

See? That's 20 Mbps not MBps. One Mb is much smaller than One MB.

One Megabyte is 8 megabits. So 20Mbps is less than 3 MBps.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1+megabyte+in+megabits

 

[nullspace]

Clearwire Asks for LTE Standard it Can Use

These types of article's and other post make be worry about the future of wimax and the purchase of my EVO. I know several people have said that how can LTE win when it's not deployed, but to me it seem that wimax is just a short term fix and not the long term answer. And if not the long term answer then how long, is clear and sprint (not officially on board with wimax2) going to pursue LTE? Dan Hesse and the clearwire CEO have made it clear that they wanted to get edge on the market, clearwire CEO wants a merger with Wimax and LTE. I replace my phone every year, but I was planning on keeping the EVO for maybe two years or so. I am going to be one pissed off customer if they switch to LTE next year and my phone is moving slower on wimax and not compatible with new technology for the next two years.

Very disturbing! I was under the impression that WiMAX was the better technology too? But if they do end up switching to LTE shouldn't the EVO be able to switch over easily?

 

[billsmed]

Very disturbing! I was under the impression that WiMAX was the better technology too? But if they do end up switching to LTE shouldn't the EVO be able to switch over easily?

Everyone is going to want Sprint's WiMAX service, not the other way around. At CTIA, Hesse said they were willing to compromise on LTE for the good of the industry and for the good of the users worldwide. WiMAX has the bandwidth do do a lot of things LTE will never be able to do. Beside that, LTE hasn't even started to be deployed yet. Sprint started working on WiMAX 5 years ago and they first deployed it in 2008 in Baltimore and it tested and true. That's a big lead that will be very difficult for LTE to overcome, especially considering it's an inferior technology (in my opinion). WiMAX is stable, but they're still trying to work the bugs out of LTE.

WiMAX and EVO 4G all the way!!!

 

[stkshooter]

A few bits of info. which indicates the rest of the world is moving on with Wimax. Check this out dated map for example

WiMAX Maps

More news...

Samsung and Yota Lead Mobile WiMAX Boom in Russia | WiMAX Forum

“Mobile WIMAX is the one and only mobile broadband technology for immediate deployment in the world and it is the most sophisticated telecommunication service since we expect global roaming service in the near future,” said Woonsub Kim, Executive Vice President and Head of the Telecommunication Systems Division, Samsung Electronics. “

"Moreover, Yota expects that the increase in subscribers will accelerate with its launch of VoIP service and a broad range of Mobile WiMAX devices. Yota is planning to launch the world’s first VoIP service with its new Dual Mode handset supporting Mobile WiMAX and GSM dual band in November. Yota is also preparing more than 100 types of Mobile WiMAX devices including USB dongles, phones, notebooks, netbooks, express cards, and CPEs by the end of this year. "

We are all part of a global market which appears to favor WiMax. It's no longer logical to go in a diff. direction.

Everything will offer Wimax chip in a couple years and require the network connection to sync with everything / everyone.

Sprint / Clear, etc. are covering their bases with LTE but that doesn't mean they are going in that direction. Tech is changing and you better be able to change with it, is the reason they keep LTE options avail.

 

[billsmed]

Thanks, stkshooter. Just to add to what you said, I made a post this morning based on an article that appeared on Engadget.

Intel, Motorola, Samsung and more join forces to support WiMAX 2 -- Engadget

WiMAX 2 Collaboration Initiative (or WCI for short), Alvarion, Beceem, GCT Semiconductor, Intel, Motorola, Samsung, Sequans, XRONet, ZTE and ITRI intend to, well, collaborate to make sure the new protocol can compete with LTE, while our old friends Sprint and Clearwire -- who are keeping their options open in the 4G wars -- simply cheer them on.

I'd say WiMAX is picking up speed and in my opinion, it's only propaganda when it comes to LTE. They're way behind and they lack bandwidth.

 

[drexappeal]

What's interesting to me is that the WiMax vs. LTE debate reminds me SO much of the BluRay vs. HD DVD debate a few years back.

As I'm sure most are aware, HD got demolished and the only HD DVD's that still exist are whatever was initially produced.

I remember, when both of the formats came out, blu-ray was WAY behind as far as the amount of movies available for sale, but blu-ray eventually took over. I'm just hoping, considering I'll be getting the EVO, that WiMax will have better staying power over LTE. Only time will tell.

 

[billsmed]

What's interesting to me is that the WiMax vs. LTE debate reminds me SO much of the BluRay vs. HD DVD debate a few years back.

As I'm sure most are aware, HD got demolished and the only HD DVD's that still exist are whatever was initially produced.

I remember, when both of the formats came out, blu-ray was WAY behind as far as the amount of movies available for sale, but blu-ray eventually took over. I'm just hoping, considering I'll be getting the EVO, that WiMax will have better staying power over LTE. Only time will tell.

I don't see how WiMAX is going to loose to LTE based on its bandwidth limitations. Besides that, you have Intel, Samsung, Motorola, Google and some of the biggest cable companies like Comcast, Bright House and Time Warner who will be deploying their own WiMAX networks. How can all these companies be wrong and how can Verizon, who is the biggest backer of LTE here in the US compete against them? That's my 2 cents.

 

[travisr528]

Thanks, stkshooter. Just to add to what you said, I made a post this morning based on an article that appeared on Engadget.

Intel, Motorola, Samsung and more join forces to support WiMAX 2 -- Engadget

WiMAX 2 Collaboration Initiative (or WCI for short), Alvarion, Beceem, GCT Semiconductor, Intel, Motorola, Samsung, Sequans, XRONet, ZTE and ITRI intend to, well, collaborate to make sure the new protocol can compete with LTE, while our old friends Sprint and Clearwire -- who are keeping their options open in the 4G wars -- simply cheer them on.

I'd say WiMAX is picking up speed and in my opinion, it's only propaganda when it comes to LTE. They're way behind and they lack bandwidth.

The part that I am concerned about is the fact you don't see clear and Sprint on board with this.

Everyone is going to want Sprint's WiMAX service, not the other way around. At CTIA, Hesse said they were willing to compromise on LTE for the good of the industry and for the good of the users worldwide. WiMAX has the bandwidth do do a lot of things LTE will never be able to do. Beside that, LTE hasn't even started to be deployed yet. Sprint started working on WiMAX 5 years ago and they first deployed it in 2008 in Baltimore and it tested and true. That's a big lead that will be very difficult for LTE to overcome, especially considering it's an inferior technology (in my opinion). WiMAX is stable, but they're still trying to work the bugs out of LTE.

WiMAX and EVO 4G all the way!!!

That makes sense. So is lack of bandwidth is part of AT&T's problem when it comes to slow or poor connection speeds. AT&T has the fastest and the slowest bandwidth at times. I saw speed test article a few months back. AT&T Roars Back in PCWorld?s Second 3G Wireless Performance Test - PCWorld
This isn't the exact article but you get the point.

So because wimax will have more bandwidth it will be more consistent than LTE. So LTE may be faster at times but not consistently. Is this correct?

 

[drexappeal]

I don't see how WiMAX is going to loose to LTE based on its bandwidth limitations. Besides that, you have Intel, Samsung, Motorola, Google and some of the biggest cable companies like Comcast, Bright House and Time Warner who will be deploying their own WiMAX networks. How can all these companies be wrong and how can Verizon, who is the biggest backer of LTE here in the US compete against them? That's my 2 cents.

Very valid point, billsmed.

Hopefully, it'll be like HD DVD had Paramount's backing, but Sony, as well as a bunch of other studios were backing blu-ray!

HD=LTE
Blu-Ray=WiMax

 

[billsmed]

So because wimax will have more bandwidth it will be more consistent than LTE. So LTE may be faster at times but not consistently. Is this correct?

That isn't quite how I see it, but RiverOfIce is the one that knows his stuff. Read his first post.

 

[Android 17]

Also, regarding that article with Clearwire asking for an LTE standard, I believe Clearwire is simply trying to cover all their bases. Should Wimax prove to not work out as intended, they simply want to be able to switch to LTE with as little trouble as possible.

One thing people need to realize is that with any technology, particularly newer, perception plays a huge role in it's success.

Of course, being backed by multi-million dollar corporations and companies helps greatly, but the bottom line is, if LTE ends up being perceived as faster, more reliable, or just more favorable by the general populace, then LTE will have won, or vice versa for the Wimax.

Marketing will play a huge role in shaping people's perceptions and expectations of each technology.

 

[billsmed]

Also, regarding that article with Clearwire asking for an LTE standard, I believe Clearwire is simply trying to cover all their bases. Should Wimax prove to not work out as intended, they simply want to be able to switch to LTE with as little trouble as possible.

One thing people need to realize is that with any technology, particularly newer, perception plays a huge role in it's success.

Of course, being backed by multi-million dollar corporations and companies helps greatly, but the bottom line is, if LTE ends up being perceived as faster, more reliable, or just more favorable by the general populace, then LTE will have won, or vice versa for the Wimax.

Marketing will play a huge role in shaping people's perceptions and expectations of each technology.

There's no doubt in my mind that WiMAX will be the victorious technology, not LTE. I believe that for 2 reasons: 1) WiMAX has the spectrum 2) Sprint has the EVO 4G.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Also, regarding that article with Clearwire asking for an LTE standard, I believe Clearwire is simply trying to cover all their bases. Should Wimax prove to not work out as intended, they simply want to be able to switch to LTE with as little trouble as possible.

One thing people need to realize is that with any technology, particularly newer, perception plays a huge role in it's success.

Of course, being backed by multi-million dollar corporations and companies helps greatly, but the bottom line is, if LTE ends up being perceived as faster, more reliable, or just more favorable by the general populace, then LTE will have won, or vice versa for the Wimax.

Marketing will play a huge role in shaping people's perceptions and expectations of each technology.

Few things. Intel, google, and samsung alone has more billions of dollars then all the cellphone companies multi millions put together together. Not multi millions, multi billons. LTE and WIMAX are not fighting each other, no one will win. You are true, but wimax has spectrum. Alot of it. The FCC is going to open up 2.5, 2.3, and 3.1 ghz (maybe the 5ghz) for wimax. Which means faster is faster.

LTE has at most 7 channels at 1.4mhz. And only 1 at 10mhz, per tower. Right now, wimax has 256 channels (only 200 will me used max) at 20mhz. ( for those that do not know the bigger the mhz, the faster the channel). Each channel can do about 130 devices. So at 7 channels, an area that has more then 900 devices (max), you are going to see slowdown ( this is just theoretical, no lte tower has every been tested doing this.)

Wimax can do 26,000 devices at full bore per tower( 130x 200 channels). What does that mean, well it means that under normal use, lte is a great option. But wimax can just keep adding devices because has bandwidth to do it. This is why the cable companies have support it.

LTE will start to slow down alot if too many people use it. All the evidence says that Wimax will not. In fact I have noticed under load wimax becomes quicker. But you are right, It is about marketing.

Why did Clear and sprint say lte? Because wimax will cover where there is no LTE, and LTE will cover where there is no wimax. You can make a wimax/lte chip. And LTE is forced to share. They are just saying that LTE will happen, to make sure when a consumer is in a spot there they do not wimax, they still have 4g coverage.

But those spots will get harder and harder to find. There are whole cities that are going to be using wimax.

Ready for the head trip. City buses will be able to have a wimax towers on them. Just a mobile tower letting you stream off it when it is close.

Oh and how many phone make a phone line up?
LG's KC1 dual-mode WCDMA/WiMAX phone
Nokia N810 wimax phone
HTC Max 4G

 

[Norril]

Few things. Intel, google, and samsung alone has more billions of dollars then all the cellphone companies multi millions put together together. Not multi millions, multi billons. LTE and WIMAX are not fighting each other, no one will win. You are true, but wimax has spectrum. Alot of it. The FCC is going to open up 2.5, 2.3, and 3.1 ghz (maybe the 5ghz) for wimax. Which means faster is faster.

LTE has at most 7 channels at 1.4mhz. And only 1 at 10mhz, per tower. Right now, wimax has 256 channels (only 200 will me used max) at 20mhz. ( for those that do not know the bigger the mhz, the faster the channel). Each channel can do about 130 devices. So at 7 channels, an area that has more then 900 devices (max), you are going to see slowdown ( this is just theoretical, no lte tower has every been tested doing this.)

Wimax can do 26,000 devices at full bore per tower( 130x 200 channels). What does that mean, well it means that under normal use, lte is a great option. But wimax can just keep adding devices because has bandwidth to do it. This is why the cable companies have support it.

LTE will start to slow down alot if too many people use it. All the evidence says that Wimax will not. In fact I have noticed under load wimax becomes quicker. But you are right, It is about marketing.

Why did Clear and sprint say lte? Because wimax will cover where there is no LTE, and LTE will cover where there is no wimax. You can make a wimax/lte chip. And LTE is forced to share. They are just saying that LTE will happen, to make sure when a consumer is in a spot there they do not wimax, they still have 4g coverage.

But those spots will get harder and harder to find. There are whole cities that are going to be using wimax.

Ready for the head trip. City buses will be able to have a wimax towers on them. Just a mobile tower letting you stream off it when it is close.

Oh and how many phone make a phone line up?
LG's KC1 dual-mode WCDMA/WiMAX phone
Nokia N810 wimax phone
HTC Max 4G

(clap clap clap!) Just wanted to show my appreciation River. Always a pleasure reading your posts. Love how yo dropped those other phones as a carrot, right at the end

So, what are we going to have down the road, 6 band phones? Seems like we really need to get the phone companies to buck up and set some global standards. I love that the micro USB charger is becomming a standard... finally! Maybe there is hope for more standards?

Thanks for being here!

 

[TECHMAN]

Really great info river thankyou.

Any comments on let being cellular based and wimax having a more broadband appeal? It seems these companies would want a wide variety of spectrum to sell to a variety of end users other than cellular.

Ty!

Few things. Intel, google, and samsung alone has more billions of dollars then all the cellphone companies multi millions put together together. Not multi millions, multi billons. LTE and WIMAX are not fighting each other, no one will win. You are true, but wimax has spectrum. Alot of it. The FCC is going to open up 2.5, 2.3, and 3.1 ghz (maybe the 5ghz) for wimax. Which means faster is faster.

LTE has at most 7 channels at 1.4mhz. And only 1 at 10mhz, per tower. Right now, wimax has 256 channels (only 200 will me used max) at 20mhz. ( for those that do not know the bigger the mhz, the faster the channel). Each channel can do about 130 devices. So at 7 channels, an area that has more then 900 devices (max), you are going to see slowdown ( this is just theoretical, no lte tower has every been tested doing this.)

Wimax can do 26,000 devices at full bore per tower( 130x 200 channels). What does that mean, well it means that under normal use, lte is a great option. But wimax can just keep adding devices because has bandwidth to do it. This is why the cable companies have support it.

LTE will start to slow down alot if too many people use it. All the evidence says that Wimax will not. In fact I have noticed under load wimax becomes quicker. But you are right, It is about marketing.

Why did Clear and sprint say lte? Because wimax will cover where there is no LTE, and LTE will cover where there is no wimax. You can make a wimax/lte chip. And LTE is forced to share. They are just saying that LTE will happen, to make sure when a consumer is in a spot there they do not wimax, they still have 4g coverage.

But those spots will get harder and harder to find. There are whole cities that are going to be using wimax.

Ready for the head trip. City buses will be able to have a wimax towers on them. Just a mobile tower letting you stream off it when it is close.

Oh and how many phone make a phone line up?
LG's KC1 dual-mode WCDMA/WiMAX phone
Nokia N810 wimax phone
HTC Max 4G

 

[RiverOfIce]

Really great info river thankyou.

Any comments on let being cellular based and wimax having a more broadband appeal? It seems these companies would want a wide variety of spectrum to sell to a variety of end users other than cellular.

Ty!

That is what it really is about.

Wimax is wireless broadband. It is made to REPLACE your internet connection. Running fiber too your house is too expensive, when building a wimax tower is insanely cheap.

Most people do not get it.


At max speed, wimax will down load a 1080p movie in under 30 secs.

At half speed, wimax will give you a 1080p download in 1 min.

At evo max speeds about an hour or so.

At evo normal speeds about 3 hours.

At current 3g speeds about 1 day.

Lte will come close in speeds.

The biggest issue is server side problem. If the server is slow so is your connection.

And not to step on jackson at all, but what I am hearing, there is going to be more like 10-15 wimax devices. Including sammy and motorola.

 

[TECHMAN]

Again, this info really makes me understand the realities of the tech Ty.

As you said this is about profitability and underlying cost of providing.

You have really cleared up Alot of questions I've had about wimax. Cell based solutions alone seem really limited on the hardware user capped side.

Thx for being here sir.

Cheers !!!

QUOTE=RiverOfIce;556276]That is what it really is about.

Wimax is wireless broadband. It is made to REPLACE your internet connection. Running fiber too your house is too expensive, when building a wimax tower is insanely cheap.

Most people do not get it.


At max speed, wimax will down load a 1080p movie in under 30 secs.

At half speed, wimax will give you a 1080p download in 1 min.

At evo max speeds about an hour or so.

At evo normal speeds about 3 hours.

At current 3g speeds about 1 day.

Lte will come close in speeds.

The biggest issue is server side problem. If the server is slow so is your connection.

And not to step on jackson at all, but what I am hearing, there is going to be more like 10-15 wimax devices. Including sammy and motorola.[/QUOTE]

 

[stkshooter]

F There are whole cities that are going to be using wimax.

Ready for the head trip. City buses will be able to have a wimax towers on them. Just a mobile tower letting you stream off it when it is close.

Based on the coverage capabilities of WiMax. Why buses ? I would understand WiFi on hundreds of buses / cabs in a city but WiMax ?

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/wimax.htm/printable

WiMAX outdistances WiFi by miles. WiFi's range is about 100 feet (30 m). WiMAX will blanket a radius of 30 miles (50 km)



RiverOfIce, I meant to reply before to some of your other post but didn't have time.



The following reply is not directed towards you RiverOfIce, I just don't have time to reply 5 diff. times.



This thread was started as the EVO 4g / WiMax thread so people could find related info. but it's turning into a chit / chat thread ( use PM ) and by the time I sort through it all I don't have time to post any real info. or replies as I'm sure is the case with others. Let's get it under control... Moderators, don't we have chit / chat threads ? Off Topic threads, etc. Maybe this is why we have not seen the people with inside info. that started posting here. Many Professional people don't have time. Just my .02


Any Way...



We can use WiMax for everything... Look around the world, we are behind. That's where we come in people, sprint and co. build the grid and we cell phone customers pay for part of it. That includes people using Apple products ( Nobody wants to pay higher taxes to foot the bill and nobody is going to run around building towers for FREE.)



Example: Cities will pay based on use with your tax dollars . Electric co. will install WiMax monitored Elec. meter and control consumption by charging more during peak times, which will provide additional profit without building additional power plants is how they will justify this. (Oh, sorry! Which will save the planet. )



Once cities sign a contract for device using WiMax just like we sign a contract for cell phone service, they won't change easily. Sprint and co. can lock in the market before others and that is where the real money is. Gov. doesn't change quickly. Plus who are you going to switch too.

( monopoly laws but that is a diff. thread )



I said it once before, your thinking way tooooooooo small here people.



This is about much more than EVO vs any cell phone. The EVO will be here and gone onto another WiMax device but Sprint and co. will still provide WiMax. If they see money in LTE they will jump on that too.



Which brings me to my other comment RiverOfIce: Hardware may be limited now but it won't be the weak link once WiMax is available world wide. Look at all the WiFi devices that were released and that is a joke in comparison. I didn't jump on that wagon except laptop because it was too limited, but I can't wait for WiMax.


Soon I can leave house driving to work and still have WiMax. Remember how cities were talking about deploying WiFi all over yrs. ago ? Didn't work because it's not practical and they didn't have any way to deploy / pay for it. Combine cell phone with everything in one device and WiMax is here to stay because it's practical. Plus now I have that WiFi connection using EVO.



Yes, many places have FREE wifi but most are so slow I don't want to use it. It's like offering FREE coffee that s_cks. So What! I'll wait till I get home and use my high speed connection. Plus it takes time to get it up and running in many locations. It just has too many issues. Give me WiMax connection linked to my acct. and let me use it when I want.



Every person in my family uses PC to connect to internet. We don't use computer for the 1001 other things software could offer as much as we do connecting to internet. With that being said, this is why the EVO will kick butt because you can connect to the REAL net. ( Not fake net ) and connect any other device you own as well. It can use many forms of connection until this tech. is avail. everywhere and at that time we can all upgrade to another device with more options if batt. tech can support more.



EVO is sprints baby and will change things the way iphone did. Let's be glad something better has come along and not turn this into school yard mentality comparing cell phones. They will all have Evo Envy soon enough.


PS:

1. black EVO. White phones have not sold well in past.



2. LCD screen is fine. Need what's proven. Not the latest envy screen.


3. Sprint will release it when they say and you will have time to plan.



4. Your not going to find a lower priced plan than sprint

with this type of smartphone so don't worry.



5. If the phone price is a deal breaker over $50, you prob. can't afford it.



6. If I have to pay $10 mo. to use phone as WiMax hotspot it's

understandable since the alternative is paying by the GB.



7. Find a better spec. smartphone than the EVO for U.S.please share.


8. If you can prove why LTE would be a better choice than WiMax that is

already spreading around the world. Please post your proof / links.


9. Would love to see larger batt. or better options



10.We all need to get a life...

 

[RiverOfIce]

Based on the coverage capabilities of WiMax. Why buses ?

8. If you can prove why LTE would be a better choice than WiMax that is

I will take on these two. I have not slept so bare with me



First because wimax IS wifi.

Wifi if 802.11ng
Wimax 802.16m

Both are ieee compliant.

Why buses? It has to do with the complete and close coverage. Because it is about 300 bucks for a cpe. Which is really cheap. It would blanket the area with more towers and wimax is really good at monitoring bus times and traffic conditions.

Ever wonder where the bus is? Wimax will fix that.


LTE is like apple. Closed sourced, closed mind, closed ecosystem.

Wimax is like android. Wimax is 100% open sourced, it is an open mind, allowing any device. And it is an open ecosystem can be used for what ever you feel like.


LTE is a better mobile tech. Really it is. First. it works through current cell phone towers and it is scalable.

Which means one thing. You get fast coverage for the "map" and "marketing" of.

You can scale traffic to limit use. This simply means, you tell them it is 4g then give them 3g speeds. You know like some companies do with 3g, give you 2g speeds and claim it is 3g.

You get longer distances, so less towers.

It is 100% close source, which means all roads lead to you. Think apple.

You can limit device creation and usage.

And the real biggie.

All lte device must be licensed with lte. Some major bucks there.

From a companies prospective. It is great.

LTE will offer the same "speeds" as wimax. But have a "bigger" map and make sure that LTE is 100% in control of it all.

Deep down inside it is just better this way.

Remember, apple is better then anything.

 

[bemis23]

I will take on these two. I have not slept so bare with me



First because wimax IS wifi.

Wifi if 802.11ng
Wimax 802.16m

Both are ieee compliant.

Umm, ok I've bit my tongue on other things, but this is really bugging me and I've seen it multiple time: WiFi is NOT WiMax.

Wifi (802.11a/b/g/n) operates in a unlicensed wireless spectrum and does not assign device priority/order for send/receive requests.

WiMax (802.16m) operates in the licensed spectrum (with a couple minor caveats, but the cellular-like service is 99% licensed spectrum usage), and it does assign device ordering/priority.

These two technologies are seperate standards, and the fact that they are both IEEE certified does not mean they are the same - it only means that they are accredited standards.The differences are roughly analagous to a cordless phone (Wifi) versus a cellular phone (wimax).

Both technologies have their strengths, but to realistically expect WiMax tethering to replace your current internet connection is unrealistic at best. Currently at my house I am served 24Mbps down/ 3Mbps up and regularly saturate every bit of my available bandwidth - although granted I'm a fairly data-heavy user and I'm doing a lot more than just watching virals on youtube.

HD video or audio streams, gaming, hefty data transfers (e.g. back ups), can saturate a 3-6mbps with unbelievable ease. Claims that WiMax is capable of higher bandwidth rates (please note that "6mpbs" is a measure of bandwidth, not communication speed - another pet peeve of mine, sorry) are unproven at best. Please also note that "theoretical peak transfer rate" is about as useless a measure as saying you've got a 100 watt stereo amplifier - actually this analogy is rather spot on. Theoretical max output ignores bandwidth requried for data overhead, and also assumes that you are in the optimum transmission range, with 0 packet loss (thus no need to retransfer any missed data), and that the backhaul relatively free of congestion from other traffic. Realistically you can expect to see 50-60% of max theoretical bandwidth as usable in everyday life.

Look, I'm as excited about this phone as everyone else but the technical discussion this far has gone beyond mere hyperbole into the realm of generating sincerely unrealistic expectations. I just don't want anyone to get worked up when 4G doesn't come along and make them see Jesus or something.

 

[awayne]

You all have to remember that it still comes down to the device (Cell phone, computer, etc) which will depend on the speed that you get through whatever data connection you have. IF the device can't process the information its receiving as it receives it then it doesn't matter how fast your data service is.

Hook-up an out dated computer with 64mb of ram and a 500mb hd with whatever the processor would be back then... prob a few hundred mhz and then hook up a computer with 8gb ram and 1tb hd and the most powerful processor out and the current computer will be faster.... Even a computer that was out 1-1 1/2 years ago won't support a data connection like a current computer would. Thats why as we continue to make advancements with 4g and the speeds the equipment using this data connection has to continue to grow with it aswell or it will all be a waste.

 

[bemis23]

You all have to remember that it still comes down to the device (Cell phone, computer, etc) which will depend on the speed that you get through whatever data connection you have. IF the device can't process the information its receiving as it receives it then it doesn't matter how fast your data service is.

Hook-up an out dated computer with 64mb of ram and a 500mb hd with whatever the processor would be back then... prob a few hundred mhz and then hook up a computer with 8gb ram and 1tb hd and the most powerful processor out and the current computer will be faster.... Even a computer that was out 1-1 1/2 years ago won't support a data connection like a current computer would. Thats why as we continue to make advancements with 4g and the speeds the equipment using this data connection has to continue to grow with it aswell or it will all be a waste.

This is also generally true, although nitpicking your specific examples aren't quite correct. Assuming that you are operating a fairly old desktop computer that still interfaces with an NIC (netowrk interface card) via the PCI bus/slot (not PCI-x) you'd have a data throughput to the processor of ~125MBps which roughly translates to 1000Mbps or 166 times as fast as a "typical" 6Mbps internet connection. Compared to a SATA 3.0 standard compliant 3.0GBps read/write speed on a modern hard drive and the hard drives read/write speed is roughly 4,096 times as fast as a "typical" 6Mbps internet connection - neither of these speeds include data overhead either, it's just raw bandwidth available.

I don't have data available at my fingertips for the standards and buses used for internal data transfer in smartphones (that data is probably proprietary and competition sensitive for each manufacturer), but I'd be guess that based on power/size requirements we're probably talking about bus speeds between the radios<->processor<->memory of maybe 150-200MBps (possible margin of error here is 1000% - there's really no way for me to know for sure), again - well above what the radios can pull in out of the air. Think about it the other way: how poorly would you have to engineer a system to transfer data faster externally than it can internally process those data streams?

The biggest bottleneck is going to be long distance data transfer for the foreseeable future, but you are correct in that we need to be able to handle the amount of data we're receiving efficiently or the technological increases won't be useful. The good news, is that the same types of innovations we get in our phones are tangentially related to the technological advances in upgrading the backhaul of the telecommunications network which - in turn - enhances broadcast bandwidth available per user.

On a less grumpy note: I'm tired of my POS phone (an old Sanyo Katana that i'm ready to throw in the trash), and since my wife and I have no interest in switching carriers, we are both anxiously awaiting EVO's release!

 

[MyHTCevo]

On a serious note, for those interested in the WiMax debate, here is a white paper report issued by Sprint. Somewhat interesting.

http://www4.sprint.com/servlet/whit...=item_file&keyname=item_id&keyvalue='4v994ya'