Help Possible eavesdropping - htc incredible - long post

[serinety]

I need some serious help here. I have called HTC and they somewhat confirmed my suspicion of eavesdropping on my incredible.

here are the facts that I have

Personal information was shared by someone who couldn't have known it other than eavesdropping.

2 days after receiving a replacement phone, the calls started

extremely high data usage in a short time.

software does exist that can do this

HTC rep said its possible to embed software on the device that is capable of doing this

If you want to read the backstory, its below. It is long and contains some irrelvant info. please do not derail the thread.




here is the scenario.

Wife is away on military training. 2 days after she left, I got a replacement incredible due to the reboot issue. The next day my wife starts getting hangup calls from "unknown caller".

She recieved 5-10 calls a day for 3-4 days, until finally the person calls and does not hang up. The person, a female, indicates to my wife that I am cheating on her back at home.

now before anyone thinks im just here to cover up my tracks, please do not try and derail this thread. I already have the police involved and have contacted the Verizon fraud line. I am extremely freaked out and concerned about mine and my wifes saftey.

My wife calls me and of course is furious, the person on the phone indicates by name who i am "seeing". I dont know anybody by this name and am very very confused as to why anyone would try and set me up like this. Ideas on who it was ranged from her friends who are not a fan of our marriage to possibly some guy she is deployed with who wants a shot with her and thinks he may derail our marriage. After a pretty big blow out between her and I (she doesn't believe me - yes trust issues and not relevant to this thread at all) she decides that we need a temp separation. Of course I am beyond words upset because someone is obviously setting me up.

so the scary part..

after she tells me about the separation, the calls stop, supporting my idea of the 3rd party vested caller. we eventually work out the differences, she combs through months of phone logs and what not and finds no evidence , bla bla bla.

so today, I am on the phone with her and we are having a conversation about random stuff. We talked about 3 unique things that happened during the phone call. Our kid did something i was telling her about, she wasnt feeling good, and something personal i wont discuss. We ended our call and went about our day.

45 min later She calls me, "someone is calling from "unkown" again and is hanging up". We discuss possible players in this and cant think of any. as i am on the phone with her, the unknown caller calls and she switches over. 5 min later she switches back to me and says "who did you talk to about our conversation". This time i am furious, in teh 45 min i was not talking to her, i can assure everyone that i was not on the phone with anyone. I ask her what the person said, the person had called to make sure she was okay, said "He just wanted me to call you, to tell you that he's worried you might be cheating on him". The caller also "proved" they were legit by saying i told them what my kid did, which matched what had happened while i was on the phone with her from earlier. Now... I know i didnt tell anyone about that, it would be impossible. of course she doesn't believe me, i mean this unknown person just told her things that were said privately less than an hour ago.

After some discussion, and trying to connect what this person said to possible people other than us that might know, there were a few things, like the kid incident that nobody but her and I knew. So either she is lying.. or i had a 45 min black out where i called someone, ask them to call my wife, and told her some intimate stuff to prove her claim, or my phone is tapped.

I googled around and found several applications capable of doing this, but i was not able to find them on my phone. wifes phone is an older flip phone so i ruled that out. Also this person had repeated stuff i had only said to my mother in a previous conversation the day before.

I mean i guess its possible that my mother is involved, only through logic possibility. But if i thought that, i wouldn't be writing this. honestly, its not possible, my mother is 57 years old and drives a truck for a living and was driving through the rockies when i talked to her.

so, seriously, the only conclusion that makes sense is some how, some one is listening to my phone calls and using that information for some kind of sick pleasure.

when i say this person repeated things that were only said 1 time to 1 person, i really mean that. so the fact that they know it is very disturbing.

is it possible to eavesdrop on an android device. is it possible to find the app? is it possible to trace where the data is going to. I forgot to mention that in the last 10 days, my data usage is over 1gb. the only thing i do on my phone is check email and browse google. I dont stream music or video. and hell for 4 days of those 10 days, I was out of town and out of a service area and the phone was off. so in 6 days, 1.2ish gb of data usage.


I am really worried about this. I have called my bank and given my social and bank number over this phone. I have called my daycare provider and talked to them about my kids schedule. I called my credit card companies to discuss personal information. If this phone is bugged then my marriage is the least of my concerns.

I am a logical guy, and i can assure you that over the lats 10 days or so i have looked at this every way i can, and the only scenario that fits is eavesdropping of some kind. who knows, my house could be bugged. i am NOT a tin-foil-hat kind of guy at all. and i know this all sounds a little ... unlikely, but im telling you, i cant think of anything else that makes sense. How the heck does some stranger know info that i know i only said to my wife 1 time? and then why would she call her back and tell her about it? sick joke?

 

[LexusBrian400]

The software DOES exist.

If you havent already, change any and all passwords you have. ANY AND ALL!

good luck w/ the wife. This post is beyond my level of expertise. Sorry.

I recommend a FULL data wipe/format. Then Install Wave Secure or Lookout.

Also, sounds like maybe the wife could be lying just to try and "catch" you.

Too many variables here. Again, Good Luck.

 

[takeshi]

Definitely wipe the device. It's certainly possible that it's something on your phone but that begs the question: how did it get on your phone? Do you let people use your device unsupervised?

Also, sounds like maybe the wife could be lying just to try and "catch" you.

Certainly possible as well.

Also, can you guarantee that none of your calls -- on either end -- were not within earshot of anyone else?

 

[AmneonX]

Now, I am not expert, as I am yet to by my Android Device. However I got to ask, have you downloaded any apps from the Android Market since you got your phone. Also, it could have been an app that was on your previous device. I would contact google with your concerns.

 

[serinety]

I have downloaded several , alot, of apps from the market. any one of them could be responsible i suppose. I also browse the web alot on it, i dont know much about android security.

I dont let anyone use the phone unsupervised. I havnt even had it that long. As far as anyone being within earshot, one conversation I was in my car driving, and the other I was walking through a walmart parking lot. I could consider someone on her end listening in maybe through a door or something, but part of the information that was overheard came from a conversation I had with my mom while I was driving and she was driving.

If yesterdays call had not happened i wouldn't even consider malicious software. but when you tell someone XYZ and later on an unknown individual repeats XYZ i dont know what else to think.

It could be possible the phone is also cloned. I just dont know. Either way someone has it out for my marriage.

I will update when i get more info

 

[AmneonX]

I don't know how much luck you could have but I may have an idea. Take down a list of the apps that you have downloaded onto your phone. Post them here in this forum, if you want, and contact google. Tell them your story and tell them you think it may be a malicious app. Give them the list, and maybe their engineers will take glances at them. One would believe that they would look into it, so they could remove such apps.

I included a link to a topic on the forum to that may be of some help.
http://androidforums.com/android-ap...ps-avoid-viruses-guide-those-new-android.html

 

[mpw]

If you've involved both the police and carrier, then surely at least one of them would've wanted to take a look at your handset?

Google for the software to do this, if it's not easily found then it has to be being used by somebody with at least some expertise, usually (I would've thought) if this sort of malicious software were via a dodgy app from the Market it would be to steal your money, not mess about with your marriage!

Try using a 'dumb' handset the next few times you talk to your wife (with your SIM of course), if the same type of thing happens again you can rule out the handset, at least at your end.

Impossible to tell, but does sound more likely it's an issue at the wife's end.

 

[serinety]

well, i called verizon and pretty much got blown off. The lady at the fraud department said they only deal with cloned phones and that there is nothing they can do about the unknown calls, there is no way they can investigate the connections the phone is making. I think this is total BS. I called the local police department and they said if the calls are not threatening then they wont investigate it. I made a report to the FBI and have yet to hear anything.

I googled around and did find several apps capable of doing this, most of them you have to pay for, and most of them have to be installed locally. However, people are ingenious and if there is a way to do it, im sure its being done.

Been on the phone with the wife for the past 15 hours or so on and off going over every angle. Some of the things that were said to here are almost impossible to know other than someone standing in the room with her listening. I know that sounds pretty possible and since im not her, and im not in her head, i cant verify that she had nobody around her. But Ive been with her 5 years and everything i know about her says shes being honest.

At this point I dont even know if i will ever find out what is truly going on. I almost want to send the device to google for analysis. Isnt there a way, like you can on a PC, the sweep the phone for anything that might be running in the background? I have auto task killer and i pull up the list of running services and they are all the normal ones. I would think that a clever programmer would high his service from that list tho, just like PC virus programmers hide the service from task manager.

I wonder if its possible that at verizon during the referb process, that some kid working there created, or obtained, hacked versions of droid 2.1 rom modified to do this sort of spy type stuff and run quietly in the background. He could be installing it on dozens of phones. I know its a long shot, and logically not as likely as someone on my wifes end playing a sick game. I do find it strange that I have never received any of the phone calls. but the level of knowledge this mystery person has about our lives is uncanny. they know about stuff happening with her 3000 miles away, and stuff happening in my life here at home. If it IS a person who just listens in from a doorway or something, then he/she is very... .very... good.

ugggggggg i am so frustrated by this lol. the most frustrating part is, we will probably never find the answer. I am afraid to wipe the phone because if it is software installed on there, i don't want to destroy the evidence.

 

[daoom]

Assuming this isn't your wife "messing" with you and not a symptom of some larger relationship issue, you need to consider that it may not be your phone that's bugged (or not just your phone anyway); it may be the location where you're having the conversation(s). Consider that your car may be bugged (2 conversations took place there according to what you've said so far.) It could also be your wife that's bugged somehow.

Try turning off the data connection on your phone, that will keep any apps from reporting out. Turn off Bluetooth also (and while you're at make sure no devices are connected to your phone). You'll need someone who knows what they are doing to look at your phone, but failing that try and get a list of a all tasks / processes running on your phone and post it here; somebody may recognize something.

There are professional who can sweep your residence and vehicle for listening devices and do a forensic audit of your phone. If you need to have the data connection active you may also want to try installing a firewall on your phone or failing that some kind of app to monitor incoming / outgoing data.

 

[kibble]

I would do what MPW said about using another phone, except there's no sim in so you'd have to get another phone, a used one, preferably a dumbphone, would do, and have VZW change the ESN or MEID, to this other phone and see if the crap continues.

I agree with daoom as well, possible that it's not the phone at all. Change some calling habits/locations to see if anything different happens.

 

[A.Nonymous]

It's far more likely that your wife is messing with you or making it up. (You did mention you had trust issues in your relationship.) Occam's razor would rule out the phone almost immediately. For it to be your wife we would have to assume:

1. Your wife is making this up. (Perfectly plausible)

If we assume it's a malicious, unknown third party we have to assume:

1. Someone out there wants to get you for whatever reason. (Plausible).
2. This person has access to malicious software that can let them eavesdrop on your phone calls. (Plausible.)
3. This person has installed this software on your phone without your knowledge (unlikely) or has somehow tricked you into installing the software. (also unlikely)
4. This person is not interested in using the information they get to steal money or personal information from you, but is interested instead in using it to ruin your marriage. (Extremely unlikely. You try this on a lot of people and it wouldn't work at all.)

There's an easy way to test this though. Look at your wife's phone or access her call records on-line. Is she really getting 10-15 calls from an unknown number? or is she just making this up?

It's possible someone is using a scanner of some sort to listen to your call and doesn't have software on your phone, but that would entail following you around and wouldn't reveal to the person your wife's phone number.

 

[AmneonX]

Android | Site Terms of Service

They have information on contacting google directly right there. They can remotely access your phone and maybe they can find the bug. If it is in your phone. The people above may be on to something else.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Can you provide a list of the apps you've got installed?

 

[Bluesman2008]

Doesn't your wife's phone record the number that's calling her?

 

[serinety]

Doesn't your wife's phone record the number that's calling her?

it shows up as "unavailable" and if i check verizon website it shows up as 9999999999.

 

[nickdog670]

I'd try to find out your wife's calling history and see if she actually is getting any calls.

 

[A.Nonymous]

it shows up as "unavailable" and if i check verizon website it shows up as 9999999999.

So you've actually checked Verizon and verified that she is getting 10-15 unknown calls?

 

[serinety]

It's far more likely that your wife is messing with you or making it up. (You did mention you had trust issues in your relationship.) Occam's razor would rule out the phone almost immediately. For it to be your wife we would have to assume:

1. Your wife is making this up. (Perfectly plausible)

If we assume it's a malicious, unknown third party we have to assume:

1. Someone out there wants to get you for whatever reason. (Plausible).
2. This person has access to malicious software that can let them eavesdrop on your phone calls. (Plausible.)
3. This person has installed this software on your phone without your knowledge (unlikely) or has somehow tricked you into installing the software. (also unlikely)
4. This person is not interested in using the information they get to steal money or personal information from you, but is interested instead in using it to ruin your marriage. (Extremely unlikely. You try this on a lot of people and it wouldn't work at all.)

There's an easy way to test this though. Look at your wife's phone or access her call records on-line. Is she really getting 10-15 calls from an unknown number? or is she just making this up?

It's possible someone is using a scanner of some sort to listen to your call and doesn't have software on your phone, but that would entail following you around and wouldn't reveal to the person your wife's phone number.

I verified the call logs from the 999999999 number and she has approx 5-10 per day that all are 1 min (hang up) calls. and when the person does respond those calls are 2-5 min. just enough time to tell her what they want to tell her. I do believe that it is someone on her end, its just hard to understand how that person knows info from 2 sides of the country as quickly as they know it.

i suspect the more unlikely phone tap simply because 2 pieces of information repeated came from 2 sources at different times. I called my mom and talked about topic A, i ONLY talked to my mom about topic A, she drives truck and i was calling her as i was driving as well. Only my kids in the car (young children). Later that day i talked to wife about topic B, short conversation as i was walking through a walmart parking lot. 45 min after that conversation the mystery caller called and was able to tell a story that both topic A and topic B. since topic A and B are unrelated and from unrelated people I have to assume several things to be possible.

1. My mom and my wife are conspiring against me - unlikely as my mother thinks we are the best couple in the world

2. My wife is calling my mom to "chat", getting info, then pretending to get fake calls - possible, though there are no phone records to support her calling my mother at any time. She could be having someone call her phone as restricted and pretending that the calls are from someone unknown.

3. In my opinion this is the most likley - she has a "friend" that wants to interfere in the relationship. she talks to this friend about stuff and friend relays it to someone else to make the calls for him, unkown to her - this makes the most sense, as the "friend" would not want her to know. However i think this is the easiest to figure out, as she could just give some false info to him and see if it shows up in a "mystery" phone call.

4. and this ties into 3, the friend has a jealous wife who has been checking his phone records and noticing a high number of calls to my wifes number and decides to cause drama. The mystery caller did say that i asked her to call on my behalf, they said some nice things about me. It would make sense that a jealous wife would want to convince a potential threat to her relationship by giving her reason to be in it.

It should be easy to track the flow of information, but I am still stuck at one stop that leads me to think it is eavesdropping.

When my wife called me to tell me that the calls had started up again, We brainstormed over the possible causes. the jealous wife situation is the one i brought up. The mystery caller had called about 10 min after a training session was over for the day, everyone was heading back to their hotel. The mystery caller called, and said "so are you done with class now?" my wife answered, and the caller hung up. My wife called me, and this is when the brainstorming started, i said "look, this makes sense that its a wife calling, she obviously knows her husband just got out of class, she calls you to see if hes with you, maybe she calls and then at the same time, calls her husbands cell phone to see if she can hear it ring". My wife agrees that this is likley, a moment later she gets the call that is in question. It goes like this .

my wife : "Hello? why are you calling me"

caller: "_____ just wanted me to call you and tell you that he misses you, he is feeling really insecure right now because you are hanging out with a guy all the time, he thinks you might be cheating on him. He just wants you to know that he loves you very much, and your girls love you and miss you. I think you should really work on things with him"

My wife: "why would you call me and tell me this? I already know how he feels, hes told me"

Caller: "Well, he wanted me to call and see if i could hear anyone in the background, possibly a guys cell phone ringing or something. He wants to be sure you are alone and not with anyone"

My wife: "Thank you, I will talk to him about this"

my wife switches back over and goes ballistic on me. why? because I had just said that maybe someone is calling and listening for phones ringing in the background. IN her mind, this is proof that i have been talking to someone else and I am behind these phone calls. However, since im here trying to sort all this out, i think its unlikely that i am.

The information above that the caller talked about came from 2 sources. The cell phone in the background was from the conversation i had with my wife, the fact that i am worried about a specific guy she hangs out with was the conversation i had with my mother earlier. My wife is on the east coast, I am on the west coast, and my mom is in the middle of the country.

I don't know how the 2 pieces of info were combined if it wasn't for some sort of eavesdrop. I GREATLY appreciate the insight some of you have brought to this. But i am still stuck. Any ideas on how to empirically prove who is behind the mystery calls are welcome.

 

[serinety]

So you've actually checked Verizon and verified that she is getting 10-15 unknown calls?

yes. as well as calling Verizon and having them verify that they are indeed blocked caller ID calls

 

[serinety]

Can you provide a list of the apps you've got installed?

touch input
htc sense
gmail storage
google settings provisions
google talk storage
google apps
google search
quick search box
data call storage
providers.applications
google search
providers.userdictionary
people
contacts storage
MCC_OTA
Music
visual VM
Messages
HTC weather wallpaper
My Uploads
HTC message Uploader
Settings
Dialer Storage
Dialer
Advanced Task Manager
Voice Dialer
Backup Assistant
Clock
Calendar
Service.stock
footprints
DCS weather component
weather provider
HTC weather sync
Calendar storage
HTC location service
DCS Utility component
DRM Protected Content
Download Manager
Media Storage
Sync Service
HTC Checkin Service
Snyc Service
andoroid system
checkin service
settings storage
provider settings
flickr
peep
customization setup
socialnetwork.provider
facebook for HTC sense
customization settings
HTC media uploader
friend stream
HTC widget downloader
Rosie Utility

 

[PBudden]

I am on a CDMA network. I have found that I don't have data network access when I am on the phone, unless I have WiFi or 4G connection. My 3G connection only returns when I close the call. I don't know how your carrier works, but it might be the same.

With that in mind, if you disable ALL network data and only enable WiFi at home, you could conceivably "sniff" any data network access attempts out. It would have to send the details to a traceable IP address or email address as a recording.

This is assuming that the phone is "bugged" and not cloned.

If it is cloned, and your phone is off, you should get normal ringing if you call your own number as opposed to going direct to voice mail. If I am incorrect in any of my assumptions here, please correct me.



One suggestion to prove to your wife about the snooping, you could have a conversation, land​

line to land line and set the scene for a cell conversation.

you would have to play it fast from Land line to Cell to make sure she does not have time to "share" the information and she knows you too do not have time to share... even have both lines, land line and cell, open at the same time.



Just a thought on this scary subject.


​

Good luck with the Wife.

 

[macprv]

Why don't you get an old phone.. not smart phone.. switch the sim and start talking to the wife again, tell her you are gonna make up stories, something "the strager" definitely would use against you. That way you can rule out a malicious app on your phone.

Also as a previous user suggested.. contact google.. they are an awesome company.. I'm pretty sure they'll be able to help some how

 

[nickdog670]

I am on a CDMA network. I have found that I don't have data network access when I am on the phone, unless I have WiFi or 4G connection. My 3G connection only returns when I close the call. I don't know how your carrier works, but it might be the same.

With that in mind, if you disable ALL network data and only enable WiFi at home, you could conceivably "sniff" any data network access attempts out. It would have to send the details to a traceable IP address or email address as a recording.

This is assuming that the phone is "bugged" and not cloned.

If it is cloned, and your phone is off, you should get normal ringing if you call your own number as opposed to going direct to voice mail. If I am incorrect in any of my assumptions here, please correct me.



One suggestion to prove to your wife about the snooping, you could have a conversation, land​

line to landline and set the scene for a cell conversation.

you would have to play it fast from Landline to Cell to make sure she does not have time to "share" the information and she knows you too do not have time to share... even have both lines, land line and cell, open at the same time.



Just a thought on this scary subject.


​

Good luck with the Wife.

I'd try this.

 

[Tangent]

Set up a sting with your wife. Have her come up with something distinctive for you to mention in a phone call. Then, with both of you in the same room (other ends of the room to avoid hearing an echo effect during the call) call her, and talk about this distinctive thing. Make it something plausible, something you haven't talked about before, and most importantly something she comes up with. If she gets a call shortly after where they mention that thing, you and she will both know for sure that somebody's eavesdropping on you. Make sure you don't leave the room and don't touch your phone, computer, whatever in the mean time so she knows you didn't tip somebody off.

You might need to do this a few times over the course of a couple of days in case they don't take the bait the first time.

 

[Kelmar]

Get both of your numbers changed. Do a FULL reset on BOTH phones and see if the problem continues.

Did all conversations take place in the house? Perhaps the house is bugged???

Just shooting out suggestions.... Scary stuff man! Best of luck!!!