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Gmail hacked - Evo is number one suspect
- Thread starter bbenny
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- htc evo 4g
Thanks compadre - I think it's topical and I'm hoping it will help pivot the discussion to the relative strengths and weakness (if any in this regard) for any and all Android devices.
While Android is derived from Linux and while Linux is not BSD, Linux and BSD are sufficiently tough, and Linux has been somewhat pollenated via some of GNU's original BSD-based thinkers - so I gotta believe that Android is similarly tougher.
Thoughts?
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My guess its a "Safari" exploit was was taken advantage of and he got hacked via Safarai. I doubt the hack was done on the Evo unless he replied to some unknown email with his username and pw which im sure he wouldnt do. Safari browser has been hacked many times and very quickly. So in turn its not about OSX and WINDOWS but browser exploits are huge and easily done.
Safari Cracked in Seconds at Pwn2Own Hacking Competition | Gizmodo Australia
Safari Cracked in Seconds at Pwn2Own Hacking Competition | Gizmodo Australia
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Most excellent point!
While it does give Safari interoperability to include Java as well as the JavaScript capabilities - leaving Java enabled is like opening your front door and leaving a trail of Krugerrands from the local dive right up to your house.
And that's just the obvious example. ;-|
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LOL the other is the Adobe exploits. By default Adobe has Java enabled "which you should disable" in which is why Adobe has been exploited SO MUCH. So many security holes with Adobe.
US-CERT Current Activity
Adobe is almost a #1 suspect for exploits yet we use them so much for PDFs and Flash! Grrrrr
US-CERT Current Activity
Adobe is almost a #1 suspect for exploits yet we use them so much for PDFs and Flash! Grrrrr
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I completely agree. Linux certainly has BSD flavor, which is why (when I'm not gaming) it's my OS of choice. Robust, customizable, and secure are strong "selling points".
The flood of Android devices is certainly exciting, let's just hope that the devs don't forget the secure background from where it was derived from.
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I have a question. How does the gmail application on the evo work? Is it encrypted?
I ask this in response to the sniffers on an open network like starbucks...... I would think that one would have to be prudent when accessing web sites that require user/passwords that are not https......
Qu1nn
I ask this in response to the sniffers on an open network like starbucks...... I would think that one would have to be prudent when accessing web sites that require user/passwords that are not https......
Qu1nn
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Macs, like Linux, can in theory get viruses - it's just much harder to do given the unix underpinnings - especially process management - of those operating systems.
For a short while, Apple distributed the best 3rd party anti-virus program it could find, free, to all .Mac (now called MobileMe) users.
Like any anti-virus program, it tried to become an executive monitor - and in its attempt to override the normal system mechanisms, it quickly became virus-like in the widespread instabilities it caused. It was pulled down, we all dropped it and haven't looked back.
Much as the Windows community and virus/anti-virus industries like to proclaim that it's the small numbers non-win machines that have allowed them to escape the wrath of hackers, the plain and simple truth is that every jerk would love to be the one to proclaim to his haxoz buddies that he cracked OS X.
The other plain and simple truth is that unix systems are simply much, much tougher to infect.
The whole by-the-numbers argument applied to the classic OS (bye bye almost a decade ago), so guys, get with the program.
The best thing that Redmond could ever do would be to do what Apple did - admit that the whole infrastructure is just freaking wrong, gut it completely, and replace it with unix.
The roots of the Darwin/unix underpinning OS X is a combination of:
[*]modified Mach microkernel
[*]OpenBSD - the security standard in the industry
[*]NetBSD - the part of BSD upon which the internet was founded
[*]FreeBSD - the part of BSD that formed the basis for interoperability
There are security exploits to be found for OS X - plenty of them. You have to actually know what you're doing and how a system works to get to them - something lacking in the skill set of most virus writers - and users typically have to be using their system in some wide-open fashion to suffer from them.
Macs aren't protected by a virus force field - they're simply naturally immune. Windows machines, on the other hand, are naturally weak and the whole meme that Macs will somehow fall prey should their numbers ever get large enough is part of the Redmond reality distortion field (and yes, both sides have them).
As for it being a disaster waiting to happen - yeah, fine, whatever you guys want to believe.
While MS has taken over the server market for the web (just a short time back, that was all unix), I'd wager the best and most important sites are not invested in that technology.
By the time that OS X is overtaken with viruses, so too will large parts of the internet that you care most about - that will be the disaster.
Opinions do not equal facts and neither can facts be out-voted.
Given the vitriolic anti-Mac people in this forum, I'll just say in advance: flame away, I'll only answer intelligent remarks on the subject, not invective. I simply don't have time for it.
But before you reply - make sure your anti-virus stuff is up to date, mmmk?
Because the virus authors will always love to pick the low-hanging fruit.
PS - Throwing rocks at OS X is like throwing rocks at Linux - it's not even wrong.
As pretty as that sounds, it's 100% wrong. Mac osx is the EASIEST os to crack & infect, and its been proven through multiple hacking contests over the last few years, and guess which os was first to fall, EVERY TIME. Yep, mac OSX.
And not all of them were safari exploits.
Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.
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I liked the Walt Mosspuppet post this week where lathered on about Android being the wild west where you weren't safe.
I lol'd - but - there might be a grain of truth in that.
I've not gotten an SDK so I'm still clueless on apps, but I've learned to read all comments before getting anything - even if it's in the market. I started out just doing it casually - until I saw one comment where one guy was pretty upset that the app in question somehow needed access to his contact list and other data, when it was merely doing something local and simple.
After that, I learned to pay attention to app install details and every comment.
We have no way of knowing if that's a case of lazy devs just throwing a boatload of imports and using some aggressive templates or if they're up to no good.
I think htcevolee said it best - there's more to watch out for than just viruses.
There's also phishing and malware to watch out for - and while we can limit their effects, even unix can't protect you if you engage in unsafe habits or use unsafe apps. (It does, thankfully, seriously curtail the payload possibilities!) I'm reminded of the transition from beta to 10.0 for OS X - 2 months later, there was a browser/malware exploit that was dead simple: it exploited that the default volume name for the main drive was "Macintosh HD" - that simple. It didn't do anything seriously harmful - it was more of a "neener neener neener - gotcha!" thing, as memory serves.
But - it sure was a wake up call.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives. Transcendentally, my consciousness navigates streams of pure HTML5.
My body, on the other hand, lives on a web chock-full of Flash. <grrrrr> And I happen to like that I can at least access it on my Evo. <grrrrr>
So - here's another Android app anecdote. I started to surf to devs' websites to read the full comments more clearly/quickly, or to see what other good apps they had - and mostly because I was making up excuses to waste time with Android and have fun.
And one day - one of those dev web sites was blocked by one my browser's protection mechanisms - don't recall which one - but it was quite adamant: the website was trying to deliver a known malware attack of some sort.
Now - I _way like_ that the stock Evo browser lets me individually control pop-ups, Flash and JavaScript - but - is it just me, or are we lacking some form of safe browsing mechanism?
I wish now that I'd remembered or written down the dev or the app with the malware payload on his site - because - I think if others won't play nice, then we should have a blacklist going - standard in Android.
OK - you guys (and others in this thread) are the IT experts, I'm just a dilettante at real security:
Thoughts?
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No, all the gmail hacking is because of China! THAT is why people's accounts are being compromised lately. Not entirely of course. There are hackers everywhere. But China seems to have a special little war going on with Google now.
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You and I have disagreed before, but my going in position is that's behind us.
First - it's not 100% wrong, and I don't mean that in the hair-splitting sense, because I don't think you did, either. I'm not going to retreat into pointing out that I said things like "much tougher to infect" or "naturally immune."
I've been following hacking contests for 15 years - so while I may have missed some somewhere - I've been trying hard to follow the modern contests for Linux, Windows, and OS X for this very exciting decade of development and evolution.
Now - the post you're questioning is strictly referring to viruses.
The contests have been trying for a number of attacks. So far as I recall, there was only one claim of OS X falling to a virus and that was 4 years back. An onslaught started at the contest, was picked up by Slashdot, and within 3 days, if my memory is correct, the claim was retracted because it wasn't a virus per se.
The cracks in the armor that I'm aware for all unices ALL involve direct exploits and nearly without exception seem to point back to the guilty parties being late to provide anti-exploit updates, with the largest majority of those coming seeming most often to come from OpenSSH gang - and whose recommended fixes are incorporated later by Apple than any similar distribution.
I refer specifically to this list of imperfections that I tend to pay close attention to (as well as a few other sources), personally:
Exploit world -- Everything (Solaris,FreeBSD,OpenBSD,NetBSD,BSDI,Sun Solaris,Linux,Microsoft Windows,SGI IRIX,HP HP-UX,IBM AIX, SCO, Digital ULTRIX/TRU64,Apple Macintosh,etc) section
As for Macs being cracked the fastest, unless I've been out of a loop somewhere - and that's completely possible - I don't think I've seen a "which OS can we crack the fastest?" contest since something like... what? 2001? 2003??
Windows was behing the curve for a new OS, it was falling fastest for that reason - and because the fanboy/hackers just hated it the most.
Within a contest or two, I thought we all decided that no one cared about those shoot-outs.
Following that, I recall the contests became subdivided and focused, by each particular OS and then by particular constraint or condition.
That's when things really heated up and got interesting because without the anti-Windows carnival atmosphere, hackers got down to business and within a very short time were waltzing into various unices thought to be secure.
I recall the event, but not the year or the *nix flavor where they did it in something like 30 seconds!
Those events have benefitted all users because it presents an acid test, and exceeds what even the blackhats do sometimes. (The blackhats performing a usually similar beneficial service.)
I can recall only complete security breakdown at the kernel level, allowing process jumping, and that was for a single Linux distribution.
I can recall zero of those exploits resulting in a virus injection into Mac OS X - aside from that one claim.
I can recall more viruses on Linux - but this article explains how to build a Linux virus in 5 easy steps - the principal ingredient being user stupidity:
How to write a Linux virus in 5 easy steps
I was busy whining about other exploits already while you were posting this missive I'm replying to - so my hands are clean.
I'm not saying that unices are perfect - but they are harder to infect with viruses - much more so than Windows.
If you would argue that Windows' first infection vector begins with user stupidity, too, I'll 100% agree with that.
But I think the fossil record is pretty clear:
- near-successful *nix viruses or virus attempts get no further than the user account
- total system infection is incredibly rare
- it has happened, however
- the same on Windows will trash the entire machine
- total system infection is not incredibly rare
You've identified yourself as a hacker in this thread, and I've a faint memory that you, too, may work in IT.
If so, or if you simply possess superior knowledge, I'm sincerely open to being educated as to any mistake I've made here.
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This may be one of the dumbest things ive ever read in my life.
Mac's have plenty of viruses, but whats worse is the simple security vulnerabilities in the OS itself that are pretty nasty and the fact that Apple is dead last in patch-response time.
Apple products are essentially the least secure on the market, but people think they are fine because of some stupid commercials with Justin Long.
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Mine was hacked too. On Sunday just 2 days after getting EVO. Viagra emails sent to a few dozen people, then Gmail finally locked my account. I had barely even used the phone up to that point, but i'm about 99% sure it was hacked through the EVO because I rarely use the gmail account email.
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Well we've also agreed on things before, and that is the beauty of healthy debate =). Your one of the few on here I take seriously, so take that as a complement.
Now yes the *nix can usually keep it contrained to the user and not su. But since osx is only based on unix and BSD, it has exploits other *nix's don't have? Many of which are still undiscovered. Now that being said, let's fast forward to today, and win7 is still the most secure os to date. Just like *nix, most infections are trapped in the user domain, and unless they are complete idiots with their sytem, and run full admin all the time, its just as safe or more safe as *nix. But even running as full admin, if you do get infected, it mostly will stay contrained in that user profile. So if you create a new on through the master admin(hopefully you have a completely separate admin account just for these rarities) and delete the old one, and then identify the process that's bad, search it out and kill it, most of the time your ok. Most of the time.
Now about my "hacking" days. I really wasn't a real hacker per se, as most (probably not you) people have the definition of a real hacker completely wrong. What I was, is more along the lines of a script kiddie/program cracker, making modifications to sub7 servers to be undetectable, port scanning, packaging, and and disguising servers in various ways. Now keep in mind this was back in the win95/win98 days, when this stuff still worked. I also dabbled with packet sniffing & injection, and some assembly modifications for games and whatnot. (Not good at assembly, at all btw. That's not childs play)
This was also during my early teen years, and even single digits. Once I started reading stories of people getting caught, and tossed in jail, I immediately stopped my sub7 shennagins, and just "hacked" my way through games & such, doing basic hex edits, packet filtering & injection, etc. After that I got into web development, and that led me to design. That then led me to consulting and design supervisor for the family biz, doing silkscreen, embroidery, etc. I also worked in a sign shop for 4.5 years, learning more & more as an "apprentice". We did signs, banners, car wraps(really cool), boat wraps etc. We even wrapped a monster truck named "the viper" formerly known as "the demon". That was fun. Really fun. The guy rich who drove it was a total goofnut. Keep in mind all of this is 100% self taught, and my actual education is in liberal arts lol... but now I'm at a crossroads. I really like the mobile scene, and I may go into application development, as I do have *some* background in java, but mostly javascript. But I'm also into multimedia production as well. So much I want to do, so little time. Especially with the amount of time I spend perusing this forum and tech sites, following technology with excitement at every turn, (geek? Lol I was a geek before it became cool
) I've also got a thing for making techno/dance music, and I'm getting better. I don't know if I want to pick a direction and fly, or be a jack of all trades. What to do...... But back on topic. When mac does get hit, it'll be just like most windows users. 100% user error, either an email or porn site they shouldn't have opened, or cracked program from piratebay, etc.
And to blow us all away, the scariest thing is, they are inching closer and closer to quantum computing. And when that happens, no networked computer will be safe, and one quantum computer can literally shut down every computer on the planet connected to the internet in one fell swoop, but for now that's still sci fi, (I hope), but its coming soon.(skynet anyone?)
Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.
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K, backatcha.
It's not that it's based on BSD - it IS (almost) BSD, with all of the eye candy layered on top of it. One can (and I have, at times) strip away the aqua eye candy, and run straight X - I prefer my own implementation of tom's windows manager - and you're strictly in BSD land. Or - strictly a Gnome desktop. A bunch of us were leading others on the web on how to do that back in the 10.0 days - just because we could (and - we weren't entirely sure of this newfangled OS X, despite living through beta).
The singular thing that keeps it from being a straightforward BSD is the non-BSD kernel - Mach. And I point that out as a Mach kernel programmer in my earlier life. While Mach is indeed a *nix kernel, I always found it odd that that choice was made.
So - once under the aqua layer, and above the non-standard (for BSD) kernel - it's very much a very nice BSD implementation - right down to the Open Firmware (shades of Ultrix!!).
I'm not being a fanboy - I sincerely do not know how you arrive at that, nor what evidence supports it.
I'd go along with "most secure MS OS to date" - but most secure? When my absolute safety depends on it, I'd choose OpenBSD.
ok. But - it's only fair to point out that OS X users have enjoyed that protection for nearly a decade - and further, rather than relying on ACLs, even privileged users had to sudo first before being granted the access to that damage.
Ja wohl.
It's only fair to warn you that up until that time, and for nearly two decades before it, I used to read raw hex dumps of memory, xlate portions into op codes mentally, and inject fixes to defective code from there. (thank you, Ward Christensen)
And until broadband was fully established, I could whistle (unassisted) modem codes into a handset at 1200 baud and connect to whatever I needed to when hardware was p*ssing me off. (thank you Capt Crunch)
I've written symmetric multiprocessors completely in assembly, whole cloth, from bare metal.
You might give that a go, then move on to stripping away parts of Windows, transparent to the user, and replace its entire i/o and job processing for data acquistion or the like, reassembling the OS on your way out, leaving no trace - and then see what you think of Windows' process management and security.
That said, they gained my respect in Win2k, XP sp2, and now Win7 - but - it's still Windows.
Good boy - seriously, no downcasting nor sarcasm. 2600 is no way to live. No way at all.
Keep in mind all of this is 100% self taught, and my actual education is in liberal arts lol... but now I'm at a crossroads. I really like the mobile scene, and I may go into application development, as I do have *some* background in java, but mostly javascript. But I'm also into multimedia production as well. So much I want to do, so little time. Especially with the amount of time I spend perusing this forum and tech sites, following technology with excitement at every turn, (geek? Lol I was a geek before it became cool
There's not a thing wrong with being an autodicact so long as you remember this maxim:
Don't believe everything you think.
You'll find to your chagrin that things that are making perfect sense today need to be deconstructed and reassembled to be seen for what they really are. Mark these words.
We'll just have to see.
I think you'd do well to also read by Stephenson, In The Beginning Was The Command Line (now available as a free PDF download(yeah, great, they're charging for it again - but not if you know where to look), and also his Snow Crash - not to mention Gibson's Neuromancer.
And if you'd like to know the epigenesis of the title, Burning Chrome (one of Gibson's best short stories, that begins, "It was the night we burned chrome...") - that's a reference to fusing nickel chromium (nichrome) junctions from the only tech we had available when we used to burn our own ROMs, prior to UVPROMs, EEPROMs and the like.
Seriously - cut OS X and Linux a bit more slack and trust me - they're mighty secure indeed.
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Citations please.
I had no idea that I'd arrived at my viewpoint due to Justin Long but I'm intrigued by your advanced view of security and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
(just having fun, mate)
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Loving the security info in this thread... and seeing there are some experts in house, vould someone explain some of the android security options?
I'm talking about credentials and certificates. What are they and how should I use them?
I'm talking about credentials and certificates. What are they and how should I use them?
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Should be. From the GMail IMAP config page:
To configure the 'Email' app on an Android device for access to Gmail, just follow the steps below:
- Enable IMAP in your Gmail settings.
- On your phone, press < Home >, then open the Email application.
- On the 'Your accounts' page, select Next to get started with setup.
- Enter your full Gmail address and password, then select Next.
- On the next screen, you can give the account a nickname and choose the name to display on your outgoing messages. Tap Done.
And you're done. You can verify your settings from the Inbox view by tapping < Menu > > Account settings.
- Incoming settings
- IMAP server: imap.gmail.com
- Port: 993
- Security type: SSL (always)
- Outgoing settings
- SMTP server: smtp.gmail.com
- Port: 465
- Security type: SSL (always)
And use a firewall wherever possible.
If rooted - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=541380
http://androidforums.com/htc-desire/105458-internet-firewall.html
PS - http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/cnet-retracts-article-on-android-app-privacy-threat/1987
PPS - I'll leave this one as a question for the game-savvy, I'm not one of them (and despite this being an Apple app store issue, my understanding is that a lot of people use Unity) -
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/black-friday-in-the-app-store-apple-bans-unity-based-games-over-information-harvesting-concerns-20091113/
Personally - and I'm no expert - even though I like that my Evo has Javascript and Flash support in my browser - I leave them off until I get to know a website and become convinced that it's a safe site and that I really, really need those options for that site. Also - I never let my browser remember passwords, form data or accept cookies, and I disable access to my location info. I'm probably a bit paranoid.
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You get a warning before you download an app telling you exactly what data it can and can't access. If this is such a big concern to a user, is it that hard to just not download those?
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Yes. Let's say i want a new keyboard on my evo. I find one in beta. Well, most beta keyboards will require internet access and recording of keystrokes to further improve their product. If one has malware hidden, I wouldn't know till it was too late.
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I'm not a security expert but maybe I can help a little bit with some of the overall ideas.
Menu -> Settings -> Security ... Credential Storage, Set Password, then turn on Use secure credentials
A certificate is kinda a file with a digital signature inside it. They're used in various ways, but they're a kinda credential - like a driver's license is a common real-life credential, identifying you and showing that you have permission to drive, sometimes with extra rights, like a motorcycle rating, or sometimes with restrictions, like needing glasses.
They're used to establish who you are - and often the line blurs where "you" is you or you is a software process requiring security - such as a web browser or a secure wifi setup or any number of things.
Certificates come in two general flavors that I'm personally aware of - those that you can create all by yourself, and those that must validated by a known security-specialty company in the industry (called a certificate authority - you've probably heard of VeriSign if you've done any online banking or credit card stuff, for example).
Android apps must be digitally signed, for example, but those can be self-signed - all it takes is a little unix knowledge to create one. (edit: "one" = digital signature, self-signed certificate (file))
Paypal is an example that uses both types - there's the Paypal secure certificate for overall access to the feature - and then anyone with a Paypal account has submitted their own personal, self-signed certificate to interact with the system (it's how Paypal knows how to route the money to where it's supposed to go).
You may have processes requiring local storage of credentials, such as the certificates I've described, but there are no doubt other forms of credentials.
My understanding is that, in Android, the Set Password option creates a secure (encrypted?) area on your phone to store the credentials and then the Use security credentials allows apps to go to that secure area.
Now let's remember - I'm no security expert, and I hope that anyone that is will chime in and validate or correct my explanation for how that Android feature works.
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You make an excellent point, one that I took for granted that everyone knew about - but - maybe not.
Here's an interesting article or two to help people get up to speed on this issue:
The Google war: China calls US an 'information imperialist' - Asia, World - The Independent
The Google War With China Escalates – 24/7 Wall St.
Google Tries New China Approach - WSJ.com
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D
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That's not even true. There are some viruses but mostly there are trojans (there is a difference.) The old "you can't get a virus on a mac" adage died years ago, just that fanbois and Apple themselves didn't want to admit to it.
But now they do. Apple sells Norton Anti-Virus right in the Apple Store. Unless Apple are pushing software that does absolutely nothing, there must be something out there.
Or, take a look at all these OS X security updates. These aren't feature fixes, these aren't simple bug fixes, these are security updates. Each patch fixes a security hole that could (and may have) been used by malware, viruses and trojans.
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