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Climate change ?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by OutofDate1980, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. dibblebill

    dibblebill Android Expert
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    Methane, if I recall, has a atmospheric life of around 10 years and CO2 around 100, but constant methane output would have a greater effect over a shorter amount of time.

    I accept that its happening, I just wonder, especially in light of core sampling, how much is our fault, how much is inevitable, and if if IS inevitable, how much are we speeding it up?
     

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  2. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    Methane does stay in the atmosphere a shorter time however, it is much more efficient at trapping heat so, according to the EPA:

    They also note that:

    So methane capture and burning is actually a great idea that could have a significant impact in that not only do you replace one gas with another that is 1/20th the problem, but you also replace the burning of other fossil fuels.

    The quantities of CO2 etc produced by nature are vast but there are natural systems that gradually strip these gases from the atmosphere. These systems however, work in an equilibrium: they have been coping with what nature throws at them, the problem is that we have overloaded this delicate balance with around 1 trillion tonnes of CO2 since the industrial revolution. We're also adding to this at a rate of approximately 35.6 billion tonnes per year (and rising - we produce 60% more per year than we did as recently as 1990).

    Those are vast numbers. There is currently more CO2 in the atmosphere than at any time in 15 million years. It is also nonsense to claim that this is no big deal:

    To put that in context: New York, LA, San Fran, New Orleans, Miami, Boston, London, Tokyo - basically, anywhere on the coast would be under water.

    And this is not a problem for 150 years time, it's a problem for right now. London built a massive tidal defence back in the 80s that it was expected would be required a couple of times a decade: it has been used up to 15 times a year. After the big storm, New York is trying to decide whether to spend billions over the next decade or two or simply abandon entire neighbourhoods.

    Sure, the doom mongers bang on about worst case scenarios and sure, we don't know precisely what will happen, but unless we do something major, we can be sure there will be major affects - at least, I would call losing the world's greatest city, NY a pretty major affect.
     
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  3. patrickt

    patrickt Newbie
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    The AGW hysterics are a faithful bunch. No matter how many "errors" appear and how flawed their "research" is and how similar their computer "models" are with Sim City, they hang in there. The oceans will rise 200 feet. Florida, Manhattan, and much of California will be underwater.

    Be afraid, be very afraid, oh, and do what we tell you, live like we tell you, and pay us.

    Sorry. I was raised listening to scientists, yes, the holy scientists, telling me that Chesterfields soothed your throat and smoking was healthy because it relaxed you. I grew up reading ads in the paper from an army of scientists saying that if the U.S. did not unilaterally disarm there would be, soon, a nuclear war followed by a nuclear winter. I've lived through the warnings against eggs, against apples, and against other things that were later retracted. I watched "scientists" work to get DDT banned and when they couldn't get it banned with bogus research they just went with politics and got it effectively banned. As a result, over 27 million have died.

    The earth is warming. So is Mars. I realize they're both my fault but can one of the hysterics explain how my using a computer makes Mars get hotter?
    Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

    So, the AGW hysterics can get in line with the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Dianetics folks. Dianetics is scientific, too.
     
  4. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    neither Here nor There
    ^^^
    If you don't believe in science, common sense helps, too.
     
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  5. jefboyardee

    jefboyardee Extreme Android User
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  6. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    neither Here nor There
  7. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    It's amazing how effective lies and propaganda can be. A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

    How long before we get that the absurd lie that temperatures haven't risen in the past 30 years? You know that complete BS claim the tin hat brigade keep making, despite the FACT that in the 13 and bit years of this century we have had 9 of the 10 hottest years on record.

    Really, stop believing the lies and distortions the Koch brothers have spent $61 million concocting, look at the actual evidence and try thinking for yourselves.

    The idea that climate change is some sort of global conspiracy is absurd - right up there with faked moon landings and alien abductions.
     
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  8. FishenFool

    FishenFool Well-Known Member
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    We also just got through having one of the coldest and longest winters so what's your point?
     
  9. jefboyardee

    jefboyardee Extreme Android User
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    I find it so appropriate that his thread is in Politics and Current Affairs.
     
  10. JnEricsonx

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  11. jj2me

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    But "we" didn't. The planet Earth just experienced the fourth warmest January on record. Ditto for March. That's despite the cold brought by the Polar Vortex to the U.S.
     
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  12. andruoid

    andruoid Android Expert
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    Weather, ermm, whether you're on one side or the other one thing is certain: the less human-made pollution the better. So, I'm not that clever, but we have huge and relatively unlimited power source that sends energy our way, everyday: the Sun. Truly harness that energy and we will be good. All you with large foreheads get cracken. 🌞
     
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  13. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    The point is that the anti-Climate Change mob are simply wrong. As wrong as the flat earth people, as wrong as the smoking doesn't hurt you people, as wrong as the radiation's good for you complexion people.

    Which would be fine - ignorance is bliss - if it weren't for the fact that this delusion has stopped the world from doing anything to address climate change for 40 years.

    It is possible that we'll find ways to cope with climate change, things is that all the evidence shows that it would be cheaper - and safer - to do what we can to avoid it.

    And really: what's the downside to addressing it? You get new industries and hence new jobs, the cleaner air is better for your health and you get vehicles, homes and machines that are cheaper to run. On top of that, you drastically reduce your dependency on fossil fuels which - don't know if you've noticed this - mostly come from places that hate you and use YOUR money against YOUR country's interests.

    Sure, there are costs, but the costs are a heck of lot less than those we're already paying for not having done anything.

    For example, your cold winter: that could well be a result of climate change (though it's not possible to be sure). One of the anticipated affects of climate change is more extreme weather. That doesn't just mean things like hurricanes and tornados (though it includes them), it can also mean colder winters in some places (e.g. the US), warmer, wetter winters in others (e.g. the UK), longer droughts (e.g. some parts of Australia had 17 years of drought between 1995 and 2012), or hotter, drier summers (almost all of Europe last year) etc etc. The research this week tells us that these things are already happening and are already costing money and lives.
     
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  14. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    neither Here nor There
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/opinion/krugman-points-of-no-return.html?referrer=
     
  15. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    It is actually terrifying how many people continue to deny reality in the face of overwhelming evidence.

    Guess it's not new: didn't the Easter Islanders continue cutting down the trees their entire civilisation depended on right up until there were no trees left and their civilisation died out? And all those 'magical' statues didn't do a thing to help.
     
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  16. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    neither Here nor There
    Some republicans may be opening their eyes now that denial is threatening the bottom line.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/2...onomy-from-global-warming.html?_r=0&referrer=

     
  17. jefboyardee

    jefboyardee Extreme Android User
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    The Supreme Court swallows faked global warming data

    With the global warming scam unraveling before his very eyes, President Obama and his administration want action now. “The question is not whether we need to act,” says Mr. Obama. “The overwhelming judgment of science, accumulated and measured and reviewed over decades, has put that question to rest. The question is whether we have the will to act before it’s too late.”

    Too late for what? The planetary thermometer hasn’t budged in 15 years. Wildfires, tornadoes, hurricanes and other “extreme” weather events are at normal or below-normal levels. Pacific islands aren’t submerged. There’s so much ice the polar bears are celebrating.
     
  18. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    Originally Posted by jefboyardee [​IMG]
    Too late for what? The planetary thermometer hasn’t budged in 15 years

    Completely wrong :rolleyes:

    In fact, hard to see how it could more wrong: 13 of the 14 years this century have been among the hottest ever recorded.

    Think that pretty certainly counts as 'budged' in anybody's book :rolleyes:
     
  19. sntaylor

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    Surely, it'd be better to be safe than sorry regardless of people's opinions? If it turns out that climate change is all a big lie, then surely there is no harm done in the process of using more green and renewable resources, where as, ignoring it and polluting etc, if it is having an effect is surely a bad move, making things worst!?

    Ultimately coal, oil and gas are finite where wind, tidal and solar power are not.

    No one can currently argue nuclear as being clean! Until we have a proper and safe way to dispose of the waste.this might be slightly off topic, but it is still related :)
     
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  20. davoid

    davoid Android Expert
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    [​IMG]

    I don't see where there is a 'scam' in cleaning up our act...
     
  21. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    Of course there's not.

    And in the long run, it will save us all money: during the summer, Germany already produces more renewable power than it can use and is almost giving it away, often to neighbouring countries. Obviously, as the various methods of energy storage come on-line, that's going reduce. Overall though, wind and solar are already within cents of price parity with coal and gas and - as Germany has shown - increasing use brings the price down yet further.

    Also, while adding the renewable infrastructure will initially cost money, that money will be providing thousands of jobs and huge business opportunities - ironically, much of that could be for the same companies that are fighting it as, for PR reasons, oil companies have actually been investing a little in renewable technologies over the last couple of decades and could - indeed, should - be to using their current profits from the legacy business to buy into the future renewables business.

    The problem - as usual - is Anglo Saxon short term-ism: the energy companies see a few years of lowered profits and would rather spend a little money on lobbyists and dodgy psuedo-science to try to stop progress than invest money for the future by embracing it.

    In contrast, countries with a history of thinking long term are going all out on renewable technologies, recognising the sector as the biggest business opportunity of the coming decades. And given the two biggest players are China and Germany - the countries with the most successful economies of recent years by a country mile - it doesn't seem to be hurting them any in the short term either.
     
  22. Prepaidguy9081

    Prepaidguy9081 Android Enthusiast
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    Action-> reaction.
     
  23. jefboyardee

    jefboyardee Extreme Android User
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    Death Valley sets cool-temp record

    Death Valley, Calif., which is known for being the world’s hottest location, maxed out at a relatively chilly 89 degrees on Sunday. This temperature – nearly 30 degrees below average – was its coolest high temperature on record for the date by a whopping 15 degrees. The previous record of 104 was set in 1945.

    This was only the eighth time that a high in the 80s has occurred in Death Valley in July or August, and there hasn’t been a high less than 90 since 1984. Weather records in Death Valley go back to 1911.

    Locations that were hotter than Death Valley yesterday include Spokane Wash. (93), Missoula, Mont. (91), Casper, Wy. (92), and Boise, Idaho (99).
     
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  24. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    Interesting.

    Of course, globally in 2014:

    January was the fourth hottest January on record

    February was the seventh hottest February on record in the oceans

    March was the fifth hottest March on record

    April was the third hottest April on record

    May was the hottest EVER May recorded in the oceans

    June was the seventh hottest June on record (and the hottest ever in the USA)

    March through May was the second hottest on record

    April through June was the joint hottest EVER recorded

    No news yet for last month, but good to know that on one day in August, in one place, in one country, it wasn't so hot :rolleyes:
     
  25. copestag

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    its a good thing we have such encompassing records........

    I love when the chicken little gang uses the words "HOTTEST EVER"...... and then say 'local climates' or 'daily records' mean nothing in comparison to the overall "global historical records"

    of course then the same people mock christian groups who say the earth is only 6000 years old........ at the same time these fanatical alarmists believe the earth must be less than 200 years old

    news flash......... the earth global average has been MUCH MUCH warmer than any "historical record".......... and green house gases have all been MUCH MUCH higher than any "historical record"........ it didnt destroy earth....... it didnt kill man...... in fact both flourished beyond imagination

    it has empirically been proven that higher greenhouse gases and higher global temperatures and higher oceans and lower polar ice are all better for the earth than our current levels

    I have to than you though..... you gave me quite a chuckle in your past few posts

    arguing how denialists are all motivated by greed and thats the only reason to deny climate change........ whereas theres no reason not to believe..... and then in the same breath tell us how the most successful economies on the planet are because they have bought into the nonsense and false data
     

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