if Verizon is holding up the release, is it crazy to think they'd hold up updates?

[generic username]

And yet, without knowing the agreement with Google, history is actually the most relevant thing we have to go on here. So without any actual evidence to the contrary, fretting over this is silly and irrelevant. None of us know. None of the Nexus S users knew. We only have one thing to go on - the fact that, historically, Google has been adamant about this being a bleeding edge line of phones, and has insisted on pushing updates directly as soon as they are available.

You will never see anything in writing. It's time to get over it. We have every reason to believe updates will come directly from Google (since history shows that) and nothing but hysterical speculation to indicate anything to the contrary.

I'll clarify that I would want to see something in writing at the phone is released. I'd be looking for some written confirmation or advertisement as simple as a gaurantee that the software can be upgraded from Google with no delays caused by the carrier (or something effectively along those lines). That said, that would cause my history comments to become moot at that point.

What I hope for is that when the phone is released, VZ will make it clear about whether there is something about these 2 apps as applied to this phone (from a tech standpoint or a contractual agreement between VZ and Google standpoint) that could cause VZ to have the ability to delay Google software updates.

 

[generic username]

And yet, without knowing the agreement with Google, history is actually the most relevant thing we have to go on here. So without any actual evidence to the contrary, fretting over this is silly and irrelevant. None of us know. None of the Nexus S users knew. We only have one thing to go on - the fact that, historically, Google has been adamant about this being a bleeding edge line of phones, and has insisted on pushing updates directly as soon as they are available.

You will never see anything in writing. It's time to get over it. We have every reason to believe updates will come directly from Google (since history shows that) and nothing but hysterical speculation to indicate anything to the contrary.

One more note about history. As I lawyer, I've spent a lot of time litigating cases where strong historical trends were abandoned against large odds. I'm not fretting over anything. Nor do I think anyone is being hysterical or silly to be concerned. On the contrary, in my line of work, it's unwise to make certain assumptions based on historical trends in certain situations.

The bottom line is what the final agreement will be about software updates for this particular phone. I'm not willing to make an assumption about this, especially when we don't have a meaningful sample size with VZ and Google on this issue.

 

[3Oclockslop]

I have been closely following this devices journey to the market since it's "debut" in October. Google may well have built a fantastic OS, but the combo of them, Samsung, and Verizon have TOTALLY F'ED UP the marketing and release (?) of what should have been a game-changing phone in the uber-competitive smartphone wars. I personally wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with a Razr....and the Rezound looks nice enough, but the beats thing isn't that high on my list, so I'm not dropping 3 bills and wasting an upgrade on it. So the GN comes out in europe, and within 48 hrs theres a SERIOUS volume bug issue....more crap press. More and more previously supportive reviewers are pointing out what a "Three Stooges" this whole release has turned into.
I've just recently started tinkering with my X2, got it rooted and Molten flashed onto it, and I'm getting happier by the day with it......and at the same time, getting MUCH less likely to "upgrade" to the GN....whenever the Lords of GSV deign to provide it.
I love the openness and ability to customize of the android system, but this debacle is NOT helping the cause of getting more quality devices into the hands of the masses....and I'm sure is also painting more smirks onto the smug faces of the "isheep".

 

[rezeew]

And yet, without knowing the agreement with Google, history is actually the most relevant thing we have to go on here. So without any actual evidence to the contrary, fretting over this is silly and irrelevant. None of us know. None of the Nexus S users knew. We only have one thing to go on - the fact that, historically, Google has been adamant about this being a bleeding edge line of phones, and has insisted on pushing updates directly as soon as they are available.

You will never see anything in writing. It's time to get over it. We have every reason to believe updates will come directly from Google (since history shows that) and nothing but hysterical speculation to indicate anything to the contrary.

Historically, there haven't been carrier "bloat" apps on the Nexus phones.
Historically, carriers haven't delayed Nexus phone releases for weeks.
Historically, Verizon hasn't been involved at all.

If history were a perfect indicator of the future, gambling wouldn't be much fun.

I don't see anyone here being hysterical. Just concerned that Verizon will gum up the works like they usually do. And the whole appeal of this phone is that it's gum-free.

If speculation and conjecture annoy you, I'd suggest maybe Internet message boards are not the best place in the world to spend your time.

 

[cereal killer]

One more note about history. As I lawyer, I've spent a lot of time litigating cases where strong historical trends were abandoned against large odds. I'm not fretting over anything. Nor do I think anyone is being hysterical or silly to be concerned. On the contrary, in my line of work, it's unwise to make certain assumptions based on historical trends in certain situations.

The bottom line is what the final agreement will be about software updates for this particular phone. I'm not willing to make an assumption about this, especially when we don't have a meaningful sample size with VZ and Google on this issue.

I could not agree any more with this statement. To assume that Verizon is just going to OK with software updates that did not first go through testing is a HUGE leap of faith. If I were a betting man I'd say the updates will in fact come directly from Google but with one caveat.

The update will FIRST go through their testing phase and then later pushed to handsets after approval.

The rest of the world will see the update long before Verizon customers do. Again, just my opinion but I cannot see Verizon relinquishing control over the entire process.

 

[Richie18]

I think that all these arguments that VZ will have control, and therefore delay updates, would apply to phones that are not Google's Android development platform.

If Android/ICS has a bug on GNex then why would Google release an update? This is the very phone they are testing ICS with. It's not like this is different hardware like the Rezound or Razor, this is the same hardware.

How would VZ have any better quality control over Google? What more would VZ know than Google? Nothing! This is Google's OS and Samsung Hardware, VZ is simply a distributor now. They have no skin overlaying on the GNex to implement, nothing to troubleshoot because its already been done.

VZ would have no more knowledge than Google, if there is an issue and Google doesn't know about it, Verizon isn't going to know about until its revealed after its sent OTA to the users.

 

[DonDraper]

Do not think of it as "Control" - but do not forget that your phone lives on the Verizon network, and they are going to decide when any new OTA rom or patch gets delivered. Google isn't going to be able to push a button hand have a rom fly out to all the GNEX's over the Verizon network. They (VZW) have TON of devices out there that all need OTA updates and they have to schedule them accordingly. All I'm saying is that at some point you will be at the mercy of Verizon to deliver the patch or rom, OR - you will probably be able to simply download it from google and do it yourself if you are capable.

 

[Richie18]

Do not think of it as "Control" - but do not forget that your phone lives on the Verizon network, and they are going to decide when any new OTA rom or patch gets delivered. Google isn't going to be able to push a button hand have a rom fly out to all the GNEX's over the Verizon network. They (VZW) have TON of devices out there that all need OTA updates and they have to schedule them accordingly. All I'm saying is that at some point you will be at the mercy of Verizon to deliver the patch or rom, OR - you will probably be able to simply download it from google and do it yourself if you are capable.

This is a different point altogether but even still i doubt VZ will limit updates that much. Smartphone users are using data all the time and a 4.0.x update or build update isn't going to change the stress for VZ's network. Especially so since the the Gnex's update could be coming from Google's servers, therefore VZ would have a minimal increase in data consumption.

Unless the update is rather large, like maybe a 4.x revision, then a more scheduled update may be necessary, even still the Gnex is going to be a very small percentage of VZ's phones in use.

 

[cereal killer]

This is a different point altogether but even still i doubt VZ will limit updates that much. Smartphone users are using data all the time and a 4.0.x update or build update isn't going to change the stress for VZ's network. Especially so since the the Gnex's update could be coming from Google's servers, therefore VZ would have a minimal increase in data consumption.

Unless the update is rather large, like maybe a 4.x revision, then a more scheduled update may be necessary, even still the Gnex is going to be a very small percentage of VZ's phones in use.

you are missing his point

Unapproved software on their network is something they are not too fond of.

It's their equipment on their network. It's not like they are going to squelch any updates. They just may have it pass internal testing first before allowing it to be pushed to their equipment

 

[Richie18]

you are missing his point

Unapproved software on their network is something they are not too fond of.

It's their equipment on their network. It's not like they are going to squelch any updates. They just may have it pass internal testing first before allowing it to be pushed to their equipment

If that was his point then you must have found it between the lines. He clearly points to the scheduling of the OTA updates and not much more.

And really you are just supporting my point which is contrary to the others made above. That is VZ is not going to impede the updates if at all, for the reasons i stated previously. They have almost zero things to check when rolling an update to the Gnex as compared to other phones with VZ overlay.

And given this is a Nexus phone you would think their would be an agreement between Google to roll out updates when they want.

 

[cereal killer]

They have almost zero things to check when rolling an update to the Gnex as compared to other phones with VZ overlay.

And given this is a Nexus phone you would think their would be an agreement between Google to roll out updates when they want.

incorrect. For the sake of discussion lets just assume Verizon is going to test the build(s) before allowing it to be released to the masses.

You are assuming it's the overlay that is buggy and that AOSP is "perfect" this is simply not true.

Verizon just doesn't have people opening up the Gallery and texting a few people to give it a stamp of approval. Whether it's vanilla or with an overlay it will go through the same stringent testing.

 

[xliderider]

To me Verizon = Apple is becoming more and more true. The only difference is that Apple does everything inhouse, and Verizon has to outsource hardware and software on their handsets.

Just the fact that Verizon got Google to allow 2 Verizon apps on the Nexus is telling. I agree with CK, Verizon will have the final say on what updates are pushed to the device and when.

 

[kidtronic]

Verizon will obviously be notified of any update Google plans on rolling out, but it ends there. Short of Google pushing out some update that enabled a host of features that Verizon currently charges for, they are not going to get in Google's way. Why people harken the My Verizon app as the death to a pure Google experience is beyond me, but you can be sure you'll get your updates when Google intends to. If you're the type of glutton for pain that insists on fretting over something until you have concrete evidence pointing to the contrary, that's your prerogative. In other news, the moon may finally crash into the Earth on January 1st. Commence panic.

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

I posted this in the Pre-Release thread, but wanted to copy it here since this is a thread dedicated to the topic. Hope the mods don't mind!

Just a couple of thoughts regarding the idea of updates...

This is a Nexus device. Updates will come direct from Google. Verizon may play a part in *testing* these updates, but IMO that won't greatly affect the timing of updates. Remember, with a normal device (IE everything except a Nexus/Google Experience device), you have two parties involved in making the update....the carrier and the OEM. The OEM is the one that develops the initial update, then that update gets sent to the carrier, where they will add their own network-specific stuff (apps, bloatware, settings, branding, etc). That will get sent back to the OEM for testing purposes, and then that gets sent back to the carrier for testing purposes. Carriers have to pay the OEM to make the update. This is a big reason why the US gets updates a lot later than Europe, because the European carriers are usually quicker to work with the OEMs than the American carriers, and because the devices over here are customized so that the carrier can "differentiate" themselves from other carriers. Perfect example would be the Galaxy S line; since it was exactly the same device all across Europe with very minor differences/carrier branding, the update process was more streamlined. A lot of the American GS models use completely different hardware/chips, and are treated as their own individual devices. Carriers won't ask the OEMs for updates if the device didn't sell well since it wouldn't be financially in their best interest.

Since that process is what takes up the majority of the time, it won't effect Nexus devices. Samsung is not involved in the software side of things whatsoever (thank god, their software support sucks). That leaves Google for software and Verizon to make sure it works adequately with their network.

And anyway, software engineers that work on the AOSP have stated that Toro (the codename for the LTE GNex; Maguro is the codename for the GSM model) will be added to the AOSP source branch upon release of the device. This is in no way different to how the Nexus S and Nexus S 4G are separated in the branch due to the different software radios, but are both equally supported. We might see SOME fragmentation between the two, as the NS4G has 2.3.7 and the NS has 2.3.6 or 2.3.5 right now, but that is only due to differences in the specific models; one may need a slight tweak or bug fix that the other does not. Major ICS revisions, major bug fixes, and new features will be added to both GNex models without serious wait times, and both will be equally supported by Google in the AOSP branch.

Bottom line is, don't be discouraged about updates. This is a pure Google device (yes, even with the two "bloatware" apps that Verizon has added, which aren't even really considered bloatware). Google will be in charge of updating it like every other GE/Nexus device that has ever existed before it, including the Nexus S 4G on Sprint.

 

[rezeew]

Verizon will obviously be notified of any update Google plans on rolling out, but it ends there. Short of Google pushing out some update that enabled a host of features that Verizon currently charges for, they are not going to get in Google's way. Why people harken the My Verizon app as the death to a pure Google experience is beyond me, but you can be sure you'll get your updates when Google intends to. If you're the type of glutton for pain that insists on fretting over something until you have concrete evidence pointing to the contrary, that's your prerogative. In other news, the moon may finally crash into the Earth on January 1st. Commence panic.

First, let me say this: I have absolutely no evidence to say otherwise, and I am assuming you're right about this. I want this to be right. I'm just not sure, so I was asking questions.

What I don't understand is how you can speak so authoritatively and definitively on this. Do you work for Verizon or have you seen some leaked docs I haven't? Or are you just assuming? I'm not being an argumentative ass; I'm really asking. I don't know how anyone can say for sure they KNOW how this will be handled unless you have some first-hand info.

Part of my concern is that the phone still isn't out yet. If Verizon is just holding it up because they think it will sell better in December or they wanted to give the Razr time to move units, then we don't need to worry about updates. But if they're holding it up because they were testing it, we definitely DO need to worry about delays for updates. That's pretty much the definition of a "delay." Google clearly gave ICS on this device the OK three weeks ago when it was released in other parts of the world. So what's the delay?

So, like I said, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of what's going on at Verizon right now I don't think you can say for sure that they're not going to keep poking their nose in when it's unwanted.

 

[jpprice.ga]

The problem is that the two VZ apps are owned by VZ and is proprietary closed source software and no way is VZ going to let Google anywhere near the source. I still think that updates will come from Google, but I think that the GSM version would get updates first and then the CDMA version would get updates sometime later. VZ would have to update their apps with any new major build and then test it.

This is just speculation on my part of course.

 

[Roze]

For what it's worth, I had the 'AT&T' Nexus One and all of these models ALWAYS got the Google update a good 3 weeks AFTER the 'TMobile/Intl' Nexus One. I didn't have the Nexus S, but I think the same applied with the different 'versions'.

I would think that the same philosophy would apply to the 'Verizon' Galaxy Nexus compared to the GSM/Intl Galaxy Nexus.

 

[kidtronic]

First, let me say this: I have absolutely no evidence to say otherwise, and I am assuming you're right about this. I want this to be right. I'm just not sure, so I was asking questions.

What I don't understand is how you can speak so authoritatively and definitively on this. Do you work for Verizon or have you seen some leaked docs I haven't? Or are you just assuming? I'm not being an argumentative ass; I'm really asking. I don't know how anyone can say for sure they KNOW how this will be handled unless you have some first-hand info.

Part of my concern is that the phone still isn't out yet. If Verizon is just holding it up because they think it will sell better in December or they wanted to give the Razr time to move units, then we don't need to worry about updates. But if they're holding it up because they were testing it, we definitely DO need to worry about delays for updates. That's pretty much the definition of a "delay." Google clearly gave ICS on this device the OK three weeks ago when it was released in other parts of the world. So what's the delay?

So, like I said, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of what's going on at Verizon right now I don't think you can say for sure that they're not going to keep poking their nose in when it's unwanted.

>_>

Confirmed: Verizon Galaxy Nexus won't support Google Wallet (but will receive Google updates) - Computerworld Blogs

 

[rezeew]

>_>

Confirmed: Verizon Galaxy Nexus won't support Google Wallet (but will receive Google updates) - Computerworld Blogs

I saw this too, and I'm excited about it. It also came well after your post. Is it safe to say we didn't have any actual confirmation of this until last night, despite your confidence?

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

I saw this too, and I'm excited about it. It also came well after your post. Is it safe to say we didn't have any actual confirmation of this until last night, despite your confidence?

As I said in my post before his, software engineers that work on the actual AOSP have confirmed they will be supporting Toro (the LTE GNex) in the source branch once the device is released. So yes, there has been official confirmation this entire time. All of the doubt and worry about this topic has been caused by the Negative Nancys of the world

 

[rezeew]

As I said in my post before his, software engineers that work on the actual AOSP have confirmed they will be supporting Toro (the LTE GNex) in the source branch once the device is released. So yes, there has been official confirmation this entire time. All of the doubt and worry about this topic has been caused by the Negative Nancys of the world

I blame Verizon. They've given me a persistent fear that everything will always be ruined before I ever even get a chance to own it.

 

[kidtronic]

I saw this too, and I'm excited about it. It also came well after your post. Is it safe to say we didn't have any actual confirmation of this until last night, despite your confidence?

I was just posting that so you could chill out. What is your deal? There was never any real doubt, which is why most news sources didn't even bother reaching out to Google to ask about it. You were just being irrational and jumping to unnecessary conclusions. My logic was my source of confidence. Some of us are good at that.

But hey, it's all been cleared up. Breathe deep. Enjoy life.

 

[rezeew]

I was just posting that so you could chill out. What is your deal? There was never any real doubt, which is why most news sources didn't even bother reaching out to Google to ask about it. You were just being irrational and jumping to unnecessary conclusions. My logic was my source of confidence. Some of us are good at that.

But hey, it's all been cleared up. Breathe deep. Enjoy life.

I still don't follow your line of thinking. It's been that way before so it'll always be that way in the future? We're talking about cell phone companies here. They change things all the time. Verizon is preventing apps from being used and forcing their own stuff onto a previously unblemished phone.

To think "Hmm, what else is changing in this equation?" is "irrational" to you?

It's fine with me if you want to assume everything will always work out fine despite evidence to the contrary; I look both ways before I cross the street.

Also, if you're such a fan of logic, you should look into the idea that being proven right doesn't necessarily indicate sound thinking.

 

[rezeew]

Just to clarify, I think there were basically two kinds of people here:

First Kind of Person: "Jesus, I hope they don't screw this up."
Second Kind of Person: "You're an idiot. Stop being unreasonable and panicky and stupid. It'll be fine, you reactionary moron."

I thought the second kind of person was being rude and dismissive. So that's my deal.

 

[kidtronic]

Then there's the type that politely gave their opinions on why there wouldn't be a hold up. You're kind of throwing them under the bus. Oh, and those that said there would definitely a hold up and it was stupid to think otherwise. No passive agressive replies to them despite them not knowing somebody at Verizon to validate their equally bold claims?

And for the record, I never called you an idiot. Nor did I tell you to stop doing anything. As I originally said, it was your prerogative to fret over the issue if you so wished. Far be it from me to rob you of that choice. I merely expressed my opinion, that it wasn't something that needed to be worried about. No offense was intended.