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Let's talk about sex

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by A.Nonymous, May 27, 2011.

  1. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
    Thread Starter

    Was on another forum where someone posted this story. For those who are too lazy to read it, it's story about a couple in Canada who have a 4 month old child and have decided they are not going to tell anyone it's gender. They claim by disclosing the sex of the child, it will cause the child to be pigeon holed into one gender norm or the other and they want the kid to be free to choose his/her own gender at some point. This prompted a long and extremely heated debate about gender roles, gender norms, whether sexual binary really exists in the first place, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Curious what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

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  2. AustinTech

    AustinTech Android Enthusiast

    Those people are nuts.

    FYI - some people are confused and think that there is very little difference between the sexes. This rediculous belief leads to all kinds of goofy conclusions and ends up making people miserable. The basic premise of their belief, that they don't want the child to have a "gender norm" is faulty. People have genders. Fact of nature. The existance of a penis or vagina "pigeon holes" a person into a gender norm. Pretending this fact of life doesn't exist is going to confuse the crap out of that child.
  3. Swipe

    Swipe Newbie

    Yeah, I read that on Yahoo.

    The thing about is I am worried about him/her. It's just that kids are cruel and with him/her growing up, he/she might be teased and bullied.

    I have a friend who likes to play with dolls and he got stones thrown at him and being called gay.
  4. Knewz

    Knewz Android Expert

    THANK YOU!!!

    Plus, when this child grows and wants to have "relations", they are going to be confused about whether to give it or take it.
  5. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    I think what the parents are trying to do is to allow their children to do what they wish to do in spite of what boys and girls "should" do. They're essentially taking the family as a social institution out of the picture. They're trying to prevent the whole "boys should be doing this" "girls should not be doing that" out of the picture and allowing their children to do what they are happy with. If one of their children wants to wear pink and have long hair... then there's nothing wrong with that. I just hope the parents aren't trying to force their children to reject things that would be considered a "gender norm".

    An example with me is that I liked playing with stuffed animals when I was younger and pretended they had super powers. Those kinds of parents, like my own, would allow it while other more socially conforming parents would say "No" and give me a GI Joe (which I did not find appealing at all whatsoever).

    I think it is a bit silly to not reveal their baby's gender though. I don't think that letting others know will affect the child.
  6. ZingXao

    ZingXao Well-Known Member

    What about when he/she's out and about with the parents as a toddler, and a stranger or family friend comes over "what a lovely little boy you have there". That kid's gonna be messed up if he think's he's a girl, or vice versa.
  7. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
    Thread Starter

    I did read another article about this (which I can't find now) that told the story of how the 5 year prefers to wear long hair and wear pink dresses. However he also wants everyone to know that he is a boy. Apparently the kid gets extremely ticked when people think he's a girl and doesn't understand why someone would think he was a girl just because he has long braided hair and is wearing a pink dress.
  8. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    Based on the parents' other two children... it's not going to be an issue. The parents are more concerned with allowing their children to freely act and do what they wish even if it wont be a gender norm than confusing their children on if they're male or female.
  9. Knewz

    Knewz Android Expert

    The parents may be able to shield gender norms but the rest of the world will beat it into his/her head. Eventually the child will establish a gender role even if it may be a sensitive male(sissy) or tomboy.
  10. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    And that is up to the other agents of socialization. Thankfully adults aren't as cruel to other adults when it comes to gender norms. God knows what'll happen if you tell a woman to get in the kitchen because that's where she belongs (gender norm).

    In terms of tech, I see the parents as Google with their Android OS and others as Apple with their iOS. One freedom and the other conformist.
  11. mortymouse

    mortymouse Well-Known Member

    I can see what the parents are trying to do here and I think thats great, however the reality is that this kid and others like it will go through a really painful existence over their lives. Other people do not care how they will hurt this person and thus the parents are simply inflicting this child in a pretty cruel and unusual way.

    You don't have to confine your children to specific gender roles to raise them without one. IMO this is some pretty horrible parenting right here.
  12. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
    Thread Starter

    I misread this at first. I thought you said adults aren't cruel to other adults when it comes to gender norms and was going to completely flame you for your clueless statement. You are right that adults aren't as cruel as children. No question about that. I have crossed paths with a few people (and actually know a few) who will tell a woman to get in the kitchen 'cuz that's where they belong. Heck, I know a guy who will not make a meal for himself because he feels that's his wife's job, not his. When he's hungry, he looks for her and has her make him something to eat. If she's busy, too bad. He's hungry and that's more important. It offends me when he does it, but she's more than happy to do it for whatever reason. This same guy looks down with disdain on any woman who has a career because "it's not their place."
  13. jamor

    jamor Android Expert

    I think those parents are really selfish and disgusting. They act like it is for their kids best interest but it is really for their interests. Really its an extremely cruel thing to do. I feel so sorry for that kid.

    I know a lesbian couple who were in love and expected to be together forever. One lesbian believed she was supposed to be a man and the partner pushed and pushed and encouraged it, so they went through the whole sex change (taking testosterone, saving up for breast removal) and after he finally became part man, she was turned off and ditched him for another woman.
  14. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    Her partner should have expected to lose interest. I would lose interest if my partner had a sex change. That was just ignorance on her part for not realizing that she risked not being physically attracted anymore.
  15. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
    Thread Starter

    This. But I'd add that the sex change may have been worth it in the end if it makes that person more comfortable with themselves.
  16. noah way

    noah way Android Enthusiast

    You need a license to drive a car but any idiot can have a kid.
  17. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert

    There was a thread on this in boards too
    I think part of it is biological, part ingrained by society (how people act based on their sex and sexual preferences)

    I think its very odd myself, and will give the child huge social issues
  18. lordofthereef

    lordofthereef Android Expert

    Here's the thing. It's going to be a long time before the kid knows his/her sexual preference. By the time the kid feels any sort of sexual attraction whatsoever, he/she will know his/her biological sex. I can see where the parents are coming from, but they aren't protecting the kid from anything he/she will have to deal with at one point or another.
    ElasticNinja likes this.
  19. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    I think the child will know far before sexual attraction occurs. hehe From what I understand now from reading a few articles on this and more quotes from the parents, they simply do not a predetermined future for their son or daughter and would like for the child to make his/her own decisions on preferences. I'm sure the child will very early on know what he/she likes and doesn't like.

    It doesn't seem like their other two kids are doing terribly.
  20. mpw

    mpw Android Expert

    I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

    The parents seem to be raising the child in a perfecty healthily, just a little differently to the 'norm'.

    Some of the negative comments are laughable, and it seems like a case of sensationalism and ignorance.
  21. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    I really don't see what all the fuss is about either. The parents obviously really care about their children and want what they feel is best for them. This is their 3rd time doing it so it's not like they haven't seen results of how their other children turned out before. It's just that now they're put in the spotlight. What I'm afraid of now is that there will perhaps be people trying to get more information on their other two children and finding any criticisms that they can about them to help confirm their preconceived notions.

    Most traditionalists in society are functionalists in that they don't like deviation from the norm. There is no one set of parenting rules as everyone raises their children just a bit differently. Media in this case functions as a social institution through which society can either praise or denounce this deviation. Criticisms help to reaffirm the established norm that was set up by society many years ago.
  22. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert

    Well I do agree parenting norms should be challenged

    Its just as a teenager myself I can see the shit that that kid will go though because of his parents choice.

    Still, I don't think it will affect the kids sexuality or anything, I mean, how many kids of same sex parents are gay
  23. lordofthereef

    lordofthereef Android Expert

    We all go through "shit" because of our parents choices. It's a part of life. Even if they raised their kid "normally", the kid would probably still get shit from his peers at some point for one thing or another.

    As I said before, I don't have a problem with it, but I think they are wasting their efforts honestly. Almost everything I know about my own body, sexuality, preferences, I learned from myself/peers and not my parents.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  24. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    It's all speculation on how the child will turn out as a result of the parents allowing the child to have freedom to choose what he/she wants to play with, wear, hang out with, etc. etc. It's basically all IFs. There are many factors that will play into this child's life and many forms of socialization he/she will come across. The child will most likely be socialized by peers since peers tend to have the greatest influence after family. The social institution of education will also play a big role as the child starts going to school and teachers become a big player in their lives and social development.

    I can guarantee you right now that socialization is not an agent of the development of sexual preference. There is absolutely no study done that proves any social institution influences sexual preference... unless you consider the wonderful report by the Catholic Scientific Institute. :p Sexual preference is already predetermined at birth, like eye color.

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