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Linux - Eye Candy, Free or Functionality

I really like the elegance of linux. The filesystem is something marvelous. When I'm in a command prompt in Windows, I'm always wondering why they haven't implemented some more of the awesome linux features...

I think I disagree about the Linux file system. It would befuddle many people coming from Windows. In Windows, I know exactly where programs will be installed; I had to Google to discover where programs were installed when I decided to go all in with Linux.

That said, now I know where most things go or are supposed to go in Linux.

I think what will bother many users is how different things are in Linux. Not saying they cannot learn, just saying that until a user decided to try, he or she will stick with Windows and play in their long established comfort zone.
 
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Apparently, the founder of Ubuntu thinks making an OS look pretty is important.

Would a Prettier Linux Make You Switch?

Pretty is good if it make the user experience better. Not so good it it causes users grief.

I think having a good looking OS is pretty key to getting people interested. Chances are you'll have just as many people going to your OS because they read the features and liked it, as there are people who saw a screenshot and thought it looked pretty or nifty.

Plus a lot of these good looking desktop environments work great too. Gnome 3 might be somewhat of a hassle at first, without a dedicated menu bar to easily switch between programs, but as time goes on i now appreciate the way gnome does it, I think it's more efficient and useful, even if it's a tad bit slower.
 
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I think I disagree about the Linux file system. It would befuddle many people coming from Windows. In Windows, I know exactly where programs will be installed; I had to Google to discover where programs were installed when I decided to go all in with Linux.

That said, now I know where most things go or are supposed to go in Linux.

I think what will bother many users is how different things are in Linux. Not saying they cannot learn, just saying that until a user decided to try, he or she will stick with Windows and play in their long established comfort zone.
Oh I agree with that, especially when you are starting out. I remember not having a clue as to what any of those three letter combinations meant at first... and I still have a lot to learn, but I'm at the point where I am enjoying discovering the filesystem and locations... And I love /tmp

Half of my work goes there ;)
 
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In windows, want to install a program? Easy, there is one way to do it. Until Linux can do this, there is no way it will be easier to use.

I don't know, I would say program management and installation is a major advantage of Linux as opposed to Windows. Certainly much easier to install something of the software center and have it update automatically, or paste a few lines into the terminal.
 
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Thing is, every app installs differently. Needs a different command that you're expected to know (or Google). No way is linux easier for the everyday user

Well yeah, if I want an app I usually Google for it. If its in the Software Center, I search there for its name and install it. Off a random website? Copy/paste the command.

And every app installs the same if its available for the OS.

I don't see how its harder than Googling, downloading, running an .exe, then going through a big install rigmarole.
 
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If I google and download a .deb package, sure it piss easy to install. I double click it and software centre opens and acts like windows' install shield. Its the same user experience as installing an .exe or a .msi... sure.

However, not everything comes as a .deb does it? If it did, we wouldn't be discussing this as there would be nothing in it.

The fact is you may need to uncompressed things, manually make directories as root, chmod, chown stuff using terminals, run shell scripts, add repositories etc etc. I would go on but you've got my point by now. Hell, vmware made up its own extension .bundle

I'm a technical user and an confident saying although I can pretty much install anything I need, there is no structure or commonality between app installs like there is in windows. Every app installs or installs exactly the same. All the files are in the same places. With linux this simply isn't true.

I am the technical lead for desktop support in my company so I spend a lot of time working with both engineers and administrators alike, across both platforms. Everything is easier on windows. Teaching the use, supporting or fixing issues... all easier on windows.

Do I love Linux? Yes! Would I recommend it to my mum? Pfft no chance.
 
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If I google and download a .deb package, sure it piss easy to install. I double click it and software centre opens and acts like windows' install shield. Its the same user experience as installing an .exe or a .msi... sure.

However, not everything comes as a .deb does it? If it did, we wouldn't be discussing this as there would be nothing in it.
Well, most apps certainly do, whether you use a GUI or CLI to download and install them.

The fact is you may need to uncompressed things, manually make directories as root, chmod, chown stuff using terminals, run shell scripts, add repositories etc etc. I would go on but you've got my point by now. Hell, vmware made up its own extension .bundle
Adding repositories is usually basically pasting a line of code and giving your password. If you arent an admin you shouldnt be installing potentially malicious software. With regards to changing things properties etc, these arent normal apps are they? I'm not to sure what kind of stuff you mean.
 
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My point is that with windows you don't have to copy a command or two that you don't understand. You click and that's that.

I have no idea what you deam a normal app. To be honest I can't be bothered to argue with you. If you don't agree linux is harder to install an app than windows, fine. Thats your prerogative. You'd be wrong but that's your prerogative all the same. Not worth the effort.

You could do a simple test yourself. Install the latest vmware player on windows. Install the latest vmware player on linux. Many applications are like this. I rest my case
 
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True, I was actually referring (likely incorrectly) to the hierarchy of the files... / /etc /opt /var /home et. al.

I tend to stick with ext3 for the most part. ;)
Oh, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

In reference to your context I've seen Windows change the names and locations of system file directories, user directories and even normally hidden system directories. I've seen .ini files replaced by a Registry database. These are very big changes!

OTOH Linux and other operating systems are far more consistent about where they keep things. The biggest change I've seen in the directory structure of systems that use the UNIX paradigm is moving the user home directories out of the /usr directory.

It looks to me like the UNIX paradigm is something that only needs to be learned once, while Windows is a constantly convolving product. And I'm not saying that just because I used UNIX before Windows and Linux later on. :D
 
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Yes you have: Windows dominates in the corporate desktop arena, even after 21 years.
No. I'm sorry but popularity is absolutely not empirical evidence. And the desktop is only a fraction of the whole.

To clarify: I was talking overall corporate networks (which are largely client-networks), not data-centres. *nix destroys Windows back-end for reliability and competes cost-wise.
And with thin clients and "the cloud" becoming bigger and bigger slices of the whole pie, it's the back office (data center) that's actually running the show.

(It's a) fact that an average Windows jockey doesn't require as much skill (pay) as a *nix one.
Are you comparing end users to engineers, or Windows engineers to UNIX engineers? If it's the latter, do you have any empirical evidence to support that claim? (If it's the former, it's an apples to oranges comparison.)

That may have been true back when UNIX ran on "big iron" and Windows was starting to make inroads in the market that Novell used to dominate in. I'd be really surprised if it's still that way, with so many Linux experts available today.

It depends on the network; if your back end is relatively small (or run by someone else, as a lot of networks have gone) and 90% of it is comprised of clients, then client TCO is pretty much all that matters.
That has nothing to do with what you quoted from me.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that; if you mean Windows Server is completely broken, I can't agree.
Windows, just like every operating system, is the platform on which applications are run. It's not an end in itself. Not in a production environment anyway.

If you want examples, one time I was called at home back to work after watching my colleagues work for hours (during working hours) trying to troubleshoot a problem with our one and only Lotus Notes mail server. I tracked the source of the problem to a failed CPU in the SMP machine. In the process I discovered that the Notes process was being started by hand because whoever built the system apparently didn't know why it should have been installed as a Windows Service. Perhaps that person didn't know how to do it. There were several other similar problems with that system.

In another case I was asked by many end users to "fix Citrix" for them. At the time, my locus of responsibility was limited to the Citrix client software and the networking functions that allowed users outside of the corporate LAN to connect to the Citrix farm. The problem was under the locus of responsibility of the networking department, but neither the FTEs, the 3rd party consultants nor the paid (by us) consultant from the company that built the Citrix farm were competent to administer the Citrix farm or fix what was done wrong. So I was asked by top management to intervene.

Later on, when our organization was negotiating to be acquired by a larger company, I was asked to make sure that a PowerPoint presentation that was to be done on our Citrix farm but operated and shown at the other company's corporate headquarters worked flawlessly. After the acquisition I was offered a job in the networking division and asked to oversee the entire Citrix system.

I don't agree; having administered since WFW 3.11, the only significant change was WinNT; otherwise, it's pretty much the same. The changes are more like patch notes than learning something new.
I mean no offense to you personally, but that statement is precisely what I meant about grossly underestimating the difference between being a user and an engineer.

When you said that you "administered since WFW 3.11", did you mean that you used MOM?

Having worked directly for CIOs almost 20 years...
Again, you're not speaking to what I wrote that you quoted.

May I make a suggestion? Since we're in The Lounge, could we try to avoid making lengthy, point-by-point posts, and keep it at a more conversational level? IMHO this is getting a little too intense. TIA
 
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