(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?

[Deleted User]

Yep. They explicitly state that you're not allowed to use other apps to tether:

http://androidforums.com/suggestion...put-out-wireless-tether-info.html#post2530326

Also, 1stAndroid, "Fair Use" only applies to copyrighted works and in that area it is primarily targeted at time shifting or media shifting something you have paid for. It doesn't apply to services. No matter what, you are consuming Verizon's resources in a manner that you agreed - and signed your name verifying that - you wouldn't consume them.

 

[1stAndroid]

As I recall the earlier snippet from the contract spelled out circumventing in order to tether. So - it wouldn't matter that it was in the original code, they did what they did, you bought what you bought.

I agree.

Yep. They explicitly state that you're not allowed to use other apps to tether:

http://androidforums.com/suggestion...put-out-wireless-tether-info.html#post2530326

Also, 1stAndroid, "Fair Use" only applies to copyrighted works and in that area it is primarily targeted at time shifting or media shifting something you have paid for. It doesn't apply to services. No matter what, you are consuming Verizon's resources in a manner that you agreed - and signed your name verifying that - you wouldn't consume them.

I Agree.

I agree 100% with what I am hearing from both of you. You have both re-iterated that it would be breaking my contract.

My understanding from previous posts is that this would still be a civil issue? Grounds for them to nullify the contract at my expense, but not to sue for damages, nor pursue punitive judgements against me/tetherers?

I also think my point about this not being a red-hering, so much as a search for legal advice from those more knowledgeable in the law.

I know that as I'm not even currently rooted or thinking of doing it again anytime soon, that's really my interest.

I also realize that even for those of us who are less knowledgeable, searching for answers, when the answer we get goes against what we hoped or wished for, we may tend to fight back against it, even though the ones telling us are the same experts we came to with respect for their expertise



Edit: TO include a service based example.. From the old days before digital cable:

If I got cable from comcast:

Was it Criminal to daisy chain (Tether) my cable with a splitter to two different TV's? I didn't think it was.

Was it a crime to install a black box and de-scramble channels I didn't pay for (Theft)? Yes

Thats one way I look at these things. If my cable company had made me sign a contract stating "I will not daisy chain" but I still did, wouldnt that just be a breach of contract, still doesn't make it theft. So Civil infraction???

 

[olskool]

Vz 3g hotspot? Can connect but stupid-ridiculous rates!! Tried wifi, no inet& wifi keeps
Dropping.Need answers please! I bought unlimited plan and hotspot capable phone and no way is it stealing (if it'on tbe airways it belongs to the people!) If someone can give me step by step I would(and many many others) be verrrry verry happy. Also is it allowed (or safe) to email this to me. Much thanks, Olskool

 

[alprazolam]

Vz 3g hotspot? Can connect but stupid-ridiculous rates!! Tried wifi, no inet& wifi keeps
Dropping.Need answers please! I bought unlimited plan and hotspot capable phone and no way is it stealing (if it'on tbe airways it belongs to the people!) If someone can give me step by step I would(and many many others) be verrrry verry happy. Also is it allowed (or safe) to email this to me. Much thanks, Olskool

Olskool,
This has become a hotly debated topic on these forums and others in the Android world because info. was leaked out that Verizon is going to crack down on tethering. I understand your logic and I do agree with you, however it is stealing because that is the way VZW set it up, like it or not. Giving out info on stealing services or pirating is not allowed on these forums. Stupid, ridiculous, belongs to the people. I agree. We all need to make this known to VZW so that they will rethink their policies.

 

[Deleted User]

if it'on tbe airways it belongs to the people!

This is all kinds of wrong. You are consuming a fixed resource. Therefore it is not free. This isn't like radio where you're simply receiving what is being broadcast.

Is your home Wifi also free for everyone to consume, because it belongs to the people? What if I connect to it and start up a torrent that consumes 100% of your bandwidth for days at a time. It belongs to the people, right? So I can consume all I want to.

 

[JB in AZ]

What alprazolam said is valid. However, if you realy want to tether, do a search! There are LOTS of older posts/threads that will give you the details.

 

[JB in AZ]

And I think we need a word of caution...please... let's not get into a yet another discussion of the legality/morality of this.

 

[sonofaresiii]

Also, just want to point out that maybe the rates aren't so ridiculous? Given time, if 4g holds up as being as fast (or close to as fast) as verizon claims, maybe canceling your home internet and using your phone as your primary internet resource will end up making the rates very, very reasonable.

 

[Airmaxx23]

This is all kinds of wrong. You are consuming a fixed resource. Therefore it is not free. This isn't like radio where you're simply receiving what is being broadcast.

Is your home Wifi also free for everyone to consume, because it belongs to the people? What if I connect to it and start up a torrent that consumes 100% of your bandwidth for days at a time. It belongs to the people, right? So I can consume all I want to.

I'm not going to get into what's right or wrong when it comes to tethering but this is a poor analogy and please don't take it personally. Him doing something with his own internet service, that he paid for, is completely different from someone else using his connection, that he paid for, for their own use. They just aren't the same.

 

[Deleted User]

I'm not going to get into what's right or wrong when it comes to tethering but this is a poor analogy and please don't take it personally. Him doing something with his own internet service, that he paid for, is completely different from someone else using his connection, that he paid for, for their own use. They just aren't the same.

I'm a paying Verizon Wireless customer. It's my tower, I'm paying for my part of it. I'm paying for ALL of my part of it. I pay for everything that Verizon says I need to pay for, which, based on the free market economy I participate in, is likely to be very close to the appropriate price point given the supply of bandwidth and the demand for it.

If you steal service that costs Verizon money, you are cutting into my part of the tower without providing appropriate funds to expand capacity. I'm not saying the occasional emergency user is doing that, but make no mistake about the consumption here: hotspots have the capacity to make very large impacts on the total amount of used bandwidth, and the fee is to offset those costs. So you are, in fact, taking something that I paid for and using it for yourself. You are taking bandwidth without paying back into the pool that Verizon uses expand their network.

I still maintain that we should all make our individual moral decisions about what is appropriate, and if tethering is your decision, I'm not going to get on my high horse and tell you you're a bad person. But let's not try and justify it.

 

[Airmaxx23]

I'm a paying Verizon Wireless customer. It's my tower, I'm paying for my part of it. I'm paying for ALL of my part of it. I pay for everything that Verizon says I need to pay for, which, based on the free market economy I participate in, is likely to be very close to the appropriate price point given the supply of bandwidth and the demand for it.

If you steal service that costs Verizon money, you are cutting into my part of the tower without providing appropriate funds to expand capacity. I'm not saying the occasional emergency user is doing that, but make no mistake about the consumption here: hotspots have the capacity to make very large impacts on the total amount of used bandwidth, and the fee is to offset those costs. So you are, in fact, taking something that I paid for and using it for yourself. You are taking bandwidth without paying back into the pool that Verizon uses expand their network.

I still maintain that we should all make our individual moral decisions about what is appropriate, and if tethering is your decision, I'm not going to get on my high horse and tell you you're a bad person. But let's not try and justify it.

I don't tether and I do feel that there should be some type of fee for using it but comparing someone using their own internet for their use (wifi or tethering) is still different than a neighbor using that same persons internet at all.

 

[sonofaresiii]

I don't tether and I do feel that there should be some type of fee for using it but comparing someone using their own internet for their use (wifi or tethering) is still different than a neighbor using that same persons internet at all.

I think following his analogy, the radio towers providing bandwidth are analogous to a person's router. A neighbor using a wireless router (and consuming their personal bandwidth) without paying for it is the same as someone tethering for free, thus using Verizon's tower/"wireless router" (and consuming all customer's bandwidth) without paying for it.

Not a perfect analogy, but I see what he's getting at.

 

[OriginalGeek]

I'm curious how the tethering actually works.
I'm paying for my piece of the tower. No matter what I do with my phone, I don't think I can get more than I pay for from that tower. Whether I just play words with friends or I make a hotspot and have a lan party at my house, am I not getting the same service? I'm not pulling in extra bandwidth for free from the tower - I'm divvying up my already paid for bandwidth amongst my friends. I am not taking my neighbors slice of the tower. I'm just making my own slice thinner.

IS that not how it works?

 

[JB in AZ]

I'm curious how the tethering actually works.
I'm paying for my piece of the tower. No matter what I do with my phone, I don't think I can get more than I pay for from that tower. Whether I just play words with friends or I make a hotspot and have a lan party at my house, am I not getting the same service? I'm not pulling in extra bandwidth for free from the tower - I'm divvying up my already paid for bandwidth amongst my friends. I am not taking my neighbors slice of the tower. I'm just making my own slice thinner.

IS that not how it works?

Not exactly. This analogy may only make sense to those of us who live in the desert areas of the country, but bear with me. If you live alongside a river, and are entitled to use some of the water...along with lets say 99 other neighbors. You go along for awhile with a 4 inch pipe delivering water to your property.. Then you decide you want to share this with some friends living inland of the river, and decide to insert a 20 inch pipe into the river. Now some of those other 99 folks who have the right to use the river water may not get all they are entitled to.
Like the river water, bandwith is not unlimited..the more you use, the less there is for others.

 

[Deleted User]

The problem isn't that you can pull higher data speeds, it's that computers, by nature, consume a lot more data than a phone. The ability to multi-task, process downloaded data faster, larger screens to consume more, processing power to download and/or play games, maintain more open windows, view non-mobile optimized sites, programs you download are larger than apps, ads are bigger to fill up the screen real estate... There's a million factors that all add up to substantially higher data consumption.

You pay VZW a dollar figure based on their expected usage on a mobile device. That doesn't include using it as a home internet provider.

^ Or, see the post above mine, which is excellent

 

[Wally World]

You pay VZW a dollar figure based on their expected usage on a mobile device. That doesn't include using it as a home internet provider.


Thank you. People have a sense of entitlement. If you don't like the contract you signed with Verizon go somewhere else, or maybe a pay as you go phone is better.

 

[Airmaxx23]

I think a lot of the problem is caused by the term "unlimited data". People see it and figure that since it is unlimited they should be able to use as much as they want however they want to use it. Basically they should somehow limit the data plan and offer free tethering until you reach your monthly allowed data usage and then start charging extra for additional data....or something along those lines.

 

[Wally World]

I think a lot of the problem is caused by the term "unlimited data". People see it and figure that since it is unlimited they should be able to use as much as they want however they want to use it. Basically they should somehow limit the data plan and offer free tethering until you reach your monthly allowed data usage and then start charging extra for additional data....or something along those lines.

Well it's sad when you have to dumb down everything to it's basic level. Ok, Verizon, put Unlimited Data-For use on your phone only-no other device, connected wired, wirelessly or otherwise, period.

 

[Airmaxx23]

Well it's sad when you have to dumb down everything to it's basic level. Ok, Verizon, put Unlimited Data-For use on your phone only-no other device, connected wired, wirelessly or otherwise, period.

I agree and like a lot of other things in life the whole "tethering" thing has been ruined by the minority who abuse it.

 

[Steven58]

I think I'll ask that this be moved to the other famed thread.

 

[olskool]

The sales pitch was unlimited data plan with ability to share w/ up to 5 devices. Nothing in the service agreement about add'l charges for sharing. What's illegal about "sharing" what I bought w/myself?

 

[Slug]

I think I'll ask that this be moved to the other famed thread.

Threads merged as requested.

 

[Deleted User]

The sales pitch was unlimited data plan with ability to share w/ up to 5 devices.

Assuming you pay for wireless hotspot capabilities. The sales pitch for a car frequently includes leather, but you don't get it free.

Nothing in the service agreement about add'l charges for sharing. What's illegal about "sharing" what I bought w/myself?

Wrong.

Wireless tethering is explicitly forbidden in the Data Plans Terms and Coditions:

Unlimited Smartphone and BlackBerry Plans and Features
These WirelessEmail plans and features cannot be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets or other data networks except as the device

 

[Roze]

I think a lot of the problem is caused by the term "unlimited data". People see it and figure that since it is unlimited they should be able to use as much as they want however they want to use it. Basically they should somehow limit the data plan and offer free tethering until you reach your monthly allowed data usage and then start charging extra for additional data....or something along those lines.

Well that's what we have up in the great white north! lol Not the best but for most carriers $25 for 500mb, $30 1GB but tethering is free. I don't think you want that. lol

 

[olskool]

SOOOOOO as a newcomer to this forum, instead of getting help I get critisim. Just because I need educating about technical matters doesnt mean im w/out knowledge. As my user name implies, I am "old school".I go all the way back tothe days of ham, then cb radio. To those who say receiving data puts a strain on the ability of others to receive the SAME
Virtually simultaneous info have no clue about how the airways work. As to the monitor's comments about the legality vs contract, much thanks. Those level headed statement did 2 things 1st they kept me from discarding my interest in this forum and 2nd gave me a second chance to find what im lookin fer.__!