(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?

[djxxcess]

i feel that if we pay for unlimited data we should have the right to use the data as we see fit. i know that carriers throttle back after a certain amount of Gb but why should i have to pay 20 bucks more for using my unlimited data? if verizon wants to be competitive with others then maybe allow its customers to use the phone as they see fit. my wife has used her ally as a hotspot while we were on a long trip, i dont feel like i should have to pay for the tether or for a wifi spot, my network has me covered (coverage) and its not like she did alot of downloading or used a ton of data...

 

[Roze]

i feel that if we pay for unlimited data we should have the right to use the data as we see fit. i know that carriers throttle back after a certain amount of Gb but why should i have to pay 20 bucks more for using my unlimited data? if verizon wants to be competitive with others then maybe allow its customers to use the phone as they see fit. my wife has used her ally as a hotspot while we were on a long trip, i dont feel like i should have to pay for the tether or for a wifi spot, my network has me covered (coverage) and its not like she did alot of downloading or used a ton of data...

But there are people who tether their laptops, computer, tablets and use in excess of 20 gb a month. I have read a thread by a member that claimed to have used over 50 gb last year. I think it has become a few that has ruined it for everyone. The community was more hospitable to help you to get tethering last year.

 

[GandalfTehGray]

Doubt it would happen, but if Verizon continues offering an unlimited plan perhaps they could give you a certain amount of leeway before charging you for hotspot/tethering, perhaps a gig of free tethering. If they can afford to let ALL the TB users tether for free for 2 months i think a little bit to everyone else wouldnt hurt.

 

[Kevmueller]

I have seen several posts of people that were effected by the awful weather yesterday using tethering to keep up to date on their weather situation due to internet and TV going out. We may never know but this just may have saved someones life yesterday or could in the future.

I personally had Wireless Tether set-up for emergencies (since going to GB have not had it), not like yesterday, more like when I was in a jam and needed a connection. I would be willing to say that about 60% of the people that want to have Wireless Tether are people who want it for a jam or in an emergency.

What would be great for the carriers to do on the unlimited plan would be to allow 250MB of tethering data a month as part of that plan. This would get most everyone who uses this in a jam/emergency through that.

 

[DannyB]

I have made a number of arguments in another thread about why charging a fee for tethering is wrong on the part of the carrier. When I have time I will come back here and address a number of arguments in this thread. But I'll address one right now.

Theft of services.


My water utility bills me for water used for washing dishes, watering the lawn and some other purposes. For some bizarre reason, they want to charge an extra fee for water used for cooking or drinking (even though it is delivered by the same pipes!).

People complain that is theft of services, or a violation of the contract I signed with the water utility.

Of course, I argue that such a restriction on how I use the water I pay for is unreasonable, the agreement is unconscionable (ask a lawyer), and none of the utility's business.

Just because they would like to charge me for this does not make it right. Just because they force these ridiculous terms in a contract doesn't mean you have any real choice in the matter.

Which costs the water utility more?
1. A gallon of water that comes through my pipes
2. A gallon of water that comes through my pipes
(Please note that (1) that gallon was used for washing dishes and (2) that gallon was used for drinking -- which the water utility thinks I should pay more for.)

Which costs AT&T more:
1. A 1 kilobyte packet transmitted between my phone and the nearest tower
2. A 1 kilobyte packet transmitted between my phone and the nearest tower
(Note in the case of (1) that packet came from my mobile browser, and in the case of (2) it came from my laptop browser.)

 

[DannyB]

I have made a number of arguments in another thread about why charging a fee for tethering is wrong on the part of the carrier. When I have time I will come back here and address a number of arguments in this thread.

I have an interesting situation. My water utility sells me metered water for washing dishes, watering the lawn, showering, and other limited purposes.

The utility offers a Tasting plan for an additional monthly charge. Under this plan, I am allowed to use the water also for cooking and drinking. (Even though my water use is metered, and each gallon of water for cooking and drinking is delivered by the same pipes!)

Dear customer: our records indicate that you have been using water for cooking and/or drinking. Please upgrade your water rate plan to our convenient Tasting plan that allows for this usage. If you continue to use water for cooking and drinking, you will be signed up for the Tasting plan automatically.

I think the Tasting plan is just a fee that they made up. It isn't a service they provide. They just want more money from me. I've got a workaround of using a container to obtain water from another room for the purposes of cooking and drinking.

Some people shout: Theft of service!
But what service? They're already delivering water to me, and metering it, and I'm paying for it, and its delivered by the same pipes!

Some people shout: but you signed an agreement and using the water for cooking and drinking is a breach of that agreement!
Ask a lawyer about the term "unconscionable contract".
Nobody in their right mind would agree to this if they had any actual choice in the matter. Just because they have the power and can force you into paying this ridiculous fee or doing without doesn't make it right.

I say that this Tasting "service" is no service at all, it's just a fee for delivering nothing at all extra to me. It's a case of the utility wanting something for nothing. Yet people seem to think it is somehow wrong to use the water I'm paying for for drinking or cooking unless I sign up for the more expensive Tasting plan.

In order to add legitimacy to their Tasting plan, the water company says that the Tasting plan is actually delivering something: it includes an additional 2 Gigabytes of water per month, giving you 4 total Gigabytes of water.

But what if I only need 2 Gigabytes of water and therefore my existing monthly 2 Gigabyte plan is plenty? The water company already charges $10 per extra Gigabyte of water I use over the limit. So if I used excess water, it's not like they wouldn't get paid.

Furthermore, once I sign up for the Tasting plan, they don't make any distinction between water used for drinking/cooking and water used for other purposes. I could use 3/4 of it for tasting, and 1/4 for bathing/dishwashing. Or any other split. Or all of it purely for tasting. So then if I paid for Tasting and used only 2 Gigabytes of water, which I already had paid for, then why did I need the Tasting plan?

I seem to be very confused about stealing water for tasting. Someone please set me straight.

 

[DannyB]

One of these quiz questions I already asked earlier in the thread.

Which costs AT&T more and which puts more stress on their network:
1. A 1 kilobyte packet transmitted between my phone and the tower.
2. A 1 kilobyte packet transmitted between my phone and the tower.
(Please note in the case of (1) the packet was from my mobile browser, and in the case of (2) the packet was from my laptop browser.)

If I have a 2 GB monthly data limit, which of the following activities will use more data on the network:
1. Downloading 2 GB of data to my mobile phone?
2. Downloading 2 GB of data to my laptop?

 

[EarlyMon]

Danny - I think you've made your point when you asked those questions originally.

Perfectly ok to discuss if the issue ought be real or not on the carrier's side - but as you've seen - that tends to lead to a repeating of (it's just against TOS and wrong..) vs. (logicially, it's ok because...)

Just asking you, as a pal, to not be disappointed or have false expectations in responses whatever they may be - neither camp is going to change the mind of the other at this point - or, so it seems to me.

 

[DannyB]

Danny - I think you've made your point when you asked those questions originally.
. . . .
Just asking you, as a pal, to not be disappointed or have false expectations in responses whatever they may be - neither camp is going to change the mind of the other at this point - or, so it seems to me.

Initially, I had the tethering discussion in the AT&T forum on a thread, or maybe two. I also posted a pointer to it from the Captivate forum. IIRC, I also once briefly argued the point before that in one other forum, but don't remember which.

Since the tethering issue affects users of a large number of carriers and devices, I was looking for a more appropriate forum. Lack of one might be my only disappointment. While I am passionate about the subject, I have tried to construct my arguments well, without name calling and with civility. Even in the face of name calling, straw men, red herrings, and worse while debating this in another forum. (I'm sure you've seen worse. )

Another purpose for my posting this is to spread what I consider to be useful arguments. If the right person, in the right place at the right time is able to use this argument, it could make a difference. It is not my purpose to start any kind of flamewar. I would prefer to leave it to those on the other side of the argument to use bad tactics.

I do think that reasoned arguments will change some minds. One point that I have conceded is that tethering can result in higher rates of data use. (eg, what if I install a fire hydrant at my house and lower water pressure throughout the neighborhood?) It is up to the carriers to limit data rates to keep their network operational for everyone -- but I could elaborate that argument in a different time and place.

Thank you for your reply. This thread doesn't appear to be active except for the replies I added. If you happen to notice an active Tethering thread, I'd love to jump in with civil, polite arguments.

 

[EarlyMon]

No worries - we coalesced this thread when Verizon changed their policies and so there was the flood of activity from the Droid X and other users.

But this is definitely a great place to discuss it! Also, you might consider looking through the AT&T carrier forms - but I like this one because it lets us condense this important issue into one place for the whole forum.

In fact, PM me or !Report any posts you see discussing this intently (maybe even say FAO EarlyMon in your report, that's For Attention Of) and I'll gladly check them out that and see if they're good candidates for moving here - or if we need different venue for these thoughts as time progresses.

Cheers!

 

[Roze]

I do think that reasoned arguments will change some minds. One point that I have conceded is that tethering can result in higher rates of data use. (eg, what if I install a fire hydrant at my house and lower water pressure throughout the neighborhood?) It is up to the carriers to limit data rates to keep their network operational for everyone -- but I could elaborate that argument in a different time and place.

Thank you for your reply. This thread doesn't appear to be active except for the replies I added. If you happen to notice an active Tethering thread, I'd love to jump in with civil, polite arguments.

The thing is, these type of threads rarely stay civil and end up having to be killed with infractions being issued for disrespectful posting and/or ignoring MOD warning. Also, a lot of members here are more or less really sick of the tethering subject. It's been over discussed to a fault and both parties know the other's argument by heart, lol.

I do understand why carriers like TMobile or Sprint (I think Verizon does tier data plans now) requires you to have a seperate tether plan but I never understood it with AT&T, since they are tier.

With unlimited, people do abuse it. I've read people that use 50-100GB a month and we know they tether even if they don't say it. So yeah, if you're going to use that much, you should pay for the data, especially if you tether it. I mean on average most people use less than 2 GB. In the end, these people incrase the cost of the data plan for everyone. I have never gone beyond 2GB unless I tether my sis' iPad.

You have 2 GB that you paid for, you should be able to use it how you like it. That's my opinon.

Although the Canadian carriers are a bit backward (3 years contract...sriously), they do something right. We're allow to tether because we have a very expensive data plan. I think there will be a riot if we have to pay an additonal $30 for an extra GB on top of the $30 we pay for a GB! It costs $25 for 500mb...

 

[DannyB]

I have never gone beyond 2GB unless I tether my sis' iPad.

You have 2 GB that you paid for, you should be able to use it how you like it. That's my opinon.

I share that opinion.

Different users do different things. If I use extraordinary amounts of data, I'm willing to pay for it. (Until it is no longer a scarce resource like it is today.)

So far, even when I have tethered, I've never come close to 2 GB of data.

 

[DannyB]

The thing is, these type of threads rarely stay civil and end up having to be killed with infractions being issued for disrespectful posting and/or ignoring MOD warning.

IMO, that is more due to the people participating and not so much due to the particular subject matter. The same participants could probably get out of hand on other subjects.

In one of my tethering discussions I was subjected to that behavior. I remained civil and pointed out the other poster's repeated personal attacks and lack of addressing the substance of the issue.

Some time later, I returned and in another thread noticed that user had been banned. My first reaction was surprise. Then sadness because I had developed some hope that user would come around on some issues. Then, a reaction of not surprised, as I mentally reviewed responses that user had made to me and to others.

Also, a lot of members here are more or less really sick of the tethering subject. It's been over discussed to a fault and both parties know the other's argument by heart, lol.

Too bad I missed out on those discussions.

In the end, I think the separate charge will disappear, in the long term. It's a relic of a time when that fee made sense.

 

[Roze]

IMO, that is more due to the people participating and not so much due to the particular subject matter. The same participants could probably get out of hand on other subjects.

In one of my tethering discussions I was subjected to that behavior. I remained civil and pointed out the other poster's repeated personal attacks and lack of addressing the substance of the issue.

Some time later, I returned and in another thread noticed that user had been banned. My first reaction was surprise. Then sadness because I had developed some hope that user would come around on some issues. Then, a reaction of not surprised, as I mentally reviewed responses that user had made to me and to others.

Yes, in some cases that is true. When members refuse to follow the rules, they get the boot. Other time, they get too heated and after being reminded, they apologize for their behaviours.

Too bad I missed out on those discussions.

In the end, I think the separate charge will disappear, in the long term. It's a relic of a time when that fee made sense.

I think that once ALL of the carriers go to tier data. Sprint and Verizon have set a date or have implemented this already. I believe that it will be an eventuality that one of the carrier merges the tethering and tier data plan together. Once that happens, all of the other carriers must follow suit.

 

[hasbrobot]

Anyone see this yet? If there's any truth to this has p3 taking care of it with the .596 update on his team black hat app?

http://androidheadlines.com/2011/05...your-data-session-cut-off-with-an-upsale.html

 

[JrzDroid]

if you wanna tether, pay the $20 a month

 

[hasbrobot]

It doesn't hurt me any, I use pdanet once in a blue moon. So I could easily do without it but if there's any truth to this its going to affect allot of other people.

 

[VoidedSaint]

if this thread gets out of hand, (which hopefully it wont) we will have it locked, this is a iffy subject that doesnt need to be brought back up time and time again.

everyone should know tethering is a violation of your TOS, and so you do it at your own risk, however if this post gets out of hand, it will be locked.

 

[hasbrobot]

Thanks for the heads up chief!

 

[VoidedSaint]

its no problem, i do appriciate the info you provided, but like i said we will obviously keep a close eye on this thread to ensure it doesnt get out of hand.

(if it does)

 

[hasbrobot]

Sounds good, thank you. Just wanted to share this because like I said it doesn't really phase me but if there's any truth it could effect plenty. So this could be big news or maybe nothing. Thanks.

 

[cougar214]

Cougar looks at the thread header, glares around the room with a smirk on his face, giggles, and runs out the door.

( I ain't touchin it)

 

[Raryn]

I don't know if a "crackdown" is happening to anyone, but I just tested it out and am still able to tether (for "free") on .596. Didn't cut out for the few minutes that I was using it either.

That's with the "experimental" 3.0 apk and the TBH patch installed.

 

[Droid Commando]

Both wireless and wired tether do not work on my phone with 596, rooted. Looks like article in OP is true

 

[Bugly]

Cougar looks at the thread header, glares around the room with a smirk on his face, giggles, and runs out the door.
( I ain't touchin it)

You know you've been at the console too long when you refer to yourself in the third person and post on a thread that you aren't going to post on that thread....