Bad News, the Triumph may be a rebadged low quality HuaweiSupport

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  1. 903Tex

    903Tex Well-Known Member

    Exactly! If you feel like this phone is to "cheap" Then why are you even on virgin mobile services(if you are) in the first place? Get a contract and be happy paying for the 75 and over for a cell phone plan. Lets just hope this phone is dev friendly thats all i care about now.

  2. cutterjohn

    cutterjohn Well-Known Member

    There's a HUGE markup so that they can make you think that you're getting a "deal" when you get a top-of-the-line phone for c. $200 or so along with their onerous 2y contract and extra fees...

    It's why I run FAR AWAY from tablets when they say that they'll be 3/4G as I just know that the price is going to be HIGH so that the cell carriers can pull the same gimmick...
  3. cutterjohn

    cutterjohn Well-Known Member

    d'oh I hate to make two posts in a row, but I'd like to the quote to be intact...

    iPhone is the very last one that will use anyone else's SoC, which is why they bought those two design companies the other year and all the new ARM based devices are using an Apple design, well a tweaking internally of what they've licensed from ARM. You're the very first person that I've ever seen attempt to assert that their new SoC is really just a Samsung, and IIRC all Samsung is doing on the SoC now is fabbing it for them.

    As to the various suits yeah, it's kind of funn Apple suing Samsung mobile division when they're so reliant on their electronics division for manufacturing so many of their components, etc.

    Anyways, I stopped drinking the koolaid long ago and haven't touched an Apple product in about 7 or 8y now and saved a bundle of money. They really got me when a) they didn't let you strip down power macs so much any longer and b) made their mobile device batteries non-easily user replaceable plus their lies wrt support gaming, i.e. letting M$ swipe Bungie, etc.

    At this point I really feel that Apple is just coasting, but that they might continue along so long as Jobs is around, but I'm betting once he's gone they're going back to their usual tank, uptick, tank, etc. cycle, and suing even more companies for cash inflow.
  4. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    If you think that a company can design and manufacture a new generation of chip in less than one year (the first A5 application, the iPad 2 was announced on March 2, 2011 and had already been in production since it was selling them by mid March), you are severely mistaken (The deal closed in Late March 2010 and was announced on April 27 2010 - Apple did not have any of Intrinsity employees on payroll according to the SEC filing until April 2010).

    It typically takes AT LEAST a year develop a new processor - the A4 developed with Samsung took around 12 months and is a more simple design than the A5. Therefore its easy to say Apple had no role in the design of the A5 - its just not possible to design and get a product to market that fast. Apple claims that they did since they bought the company, but it was not Apple's work, it was wholly Intrinsity's. Apple uses baseless market speak like this all the time (they are notorious for calling units shipped to stores as sales to talk about product success even though they haven't necessarily been sold to end-users and they also like to clump all iDevices together in some press)

    Its a fact that the A4 and A5 are both made by Samsung and Samsung had a large role in the collaboration with Intrinsity for both the A4 and the A5. Samsung's Orion/Exynos was launched prior to the A5 and shares much with it (it does use a different GPU, but neither company designed the GPU they use).

    Exclusive: Apple A5 vs Samsung Exynos 4210 SoC Die Shot Comparison |

    AnandTech - Going Out of Order: Samsung Announces Orion Cortex A9 SoC

    Think different, think again - its the truth and Apple has never truly innovated if you actually follow the history of ideas they've touted over the years as their own.

    Adding to how wrong shark is in this thread, I personally bought the Newton 120 when it came out and use horrors like Graffiti for input. What a waste of time and effort that purchase was.

    Some good advice for Apple and especially Steve Jobs:
  5. cutterjohn

    cutterjohn Well-Known Member

    They didn't. They bought TWO fabless design houses that had ALREADY licensed ARM IP and had ALREADY been working with them, which is why they were purchased.

    Oh, and BTW Samsung will shortly no longer even be fabbing the SoC that Apple will be using. A6 is slated for 28nm TSMC fabbing...

    Better start bailing on your arguments, and while you're quoting second rate sites check out EE Times and other professional analyses of teh A4 & 5 design...
  6. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    P.A. Semi had nothing to do with the Samsung/A4 or A5 chip - it was all Samsung and Intrinsity and those sites I posted used the same UBM analysis that the EETimes did, so what is your point again?

    Samsung, Intrinsity pump ARM to GHz rate

    Updated: Samsung fabs Apple A5 processor

    Apple did not have any significant role in the A4 and A5 - it was a collaboration between Samsung and Intrinsity. Why don't you find something from EEtimes that says otherwise, its your argument that is weak since all your got is personal assumptions, no articles.
  7. cutterjohn

    cutterjohn Well-Known Member

    I don't have to. You just did it for me with those two articles.

    Neither one even so slightly hints at the design of the A4, A5, or A6 and furthermore just points out to you what I already told you: Samsung is FABBING the SoCs for Apple.

    Bust this is my last comment on this subject as some people are just never happy unless they can find or manufacture a downside.
  8. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    The A5 article got their data from UBM who also confirmed the A4 is the same as the S5PC110A01 - you didn't actually read the reports then, so quit wasting our time. UBM also noted the A5 features some Samsung technologies which enabled them to make the ID. Did you read the UBM reports, anyone can download them. UBM couldn't make it any clearer on the A4, its not an Apple design:

  9. Jayziac

    Jayziac Well-Known Member

    Most likely Motorola used their cellphone expertise, spec'd and put together a smartphone with 'off-the-shelf' components and backed it up with their name (quality control), at a relatively low cost so that VM could use. Notice Motorola's Blur isn't on the Triumph, nor is there gorilla glass, or other typical Motorola components. It's probably just the fastest, cheapest, route for them. Then Huawei or another manufacturer with good experience and can handle the volume order cranks them out. It's foolish to design and manufacturer every component that goes into a cellphone all by one company. Not even Apple does this with their products. So it probably is mostly made by Huawei, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be low quality.
  10. armstrom

    armstrom Member

    has anyone bothered to REALLY compare the two phones? It's not hard at all.. Just download large front-on images of both phones from the internet (there are plenty of high res pictures of both phones to choose from) Load them on separate layers in photoshop or the free Paint.NET image editor. Make your top layer 75% transparent or so.. now start resizing the top image (while keeping aspect ratio!) so that the screen lines-up with the other device screen.

    What will you see? (yes, I've done this). Some stuff lines up.. other things don't. For example, the first think you will notice is that the capacitive buttons are in a totally different order... not a big deal to change in the android build, sure... but certainly not a simple "rebranding". Second. the location of the speaker for the phone handset lines up pretty well (although the openings are different shapes). The front facing camera lines up pretty well also. However, the case of the Huawei is taller than the MOTO. Also, The microphone on the Huawei is placed lower than on the MOTO.

    Now, yes.. they are similar devices. However, There is another possible explanation for what's going on here.. Both devices use the same Qualcomm SOC (System On a Chip)... Which explains the very similar specs. Qualcomm (like all electronics manufacturers) doesn't just design a SOC and phone platform and throw it over the wall and say "good luck!" It is VERY common practice to issue what is called a "Reference Design". It is basically a fully executed product based on the Qualcomm components that gives designers a starting place. NVIDIA is a great example of this. they issue a new graphics chipset and a reference design to go with it. then 100s of small-time graphics card companies grab the reference design and build it AS-IS.. or maybe with some slight tweaks.

    If I had to guess, that's what I think happened here. Both phones are based on the same SOC and Qualcomm reference design, so they will have nearly identical specs, and some commodity hardware. In some areas each company made some changes to suit what they wanted (location of the microphone, for example).

    Just my $0.02.

    Now, I should add a disclaimer... I very well could be 100% wrong... The motorola might just be a new housing wrapped around the EXACT same PCB and components found in the Huawei... But I don't think it's reasonable to ASSUME this is what happened simply because the two phones look KINDA the same.
    squallz506 likes this.
  11. soundping

    soundping Well-Known Member

    I don't care if it's regurgitated. I just want to use flash on websites.
  12. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    Its not the same processor but the same SoC design:

    Motorola Triumph uses MSM8655

    Huawei X6 uses QSD8255

    The Motorola also uses a newer revision of the reference design and has a different radio system to support that specific processor and CDMA networks. These are significant differences - even within the same revision, this difference can have a significant impact on performance and has in handsets in the past.
  13. mashu

    mashu New Member

    not sure whether its the same phone (with Huawei), but i found this image from an indonesian website:

    It listed all the rebranded phone from Huawei U9000, including Motorola Triumph
    Gmash and squallz506 like this.
  14. jntdroid

    jntdroid Well-Known Member

    can you link the site?
  15. squallz506

    squallz506 Member

    i hope you can read indonesian because google does a terrible job of translating it. Kaskus - The Largest Indonesian Community - View Single Post - [OFFICIAL LOUNGE] CSL Mi410 aka Mia (OEM by FOXCONN)

    this page does have some good news. the oem is not huawei but foxconn the makers of ipod/iphone/ipad and so much more.
    huawei apparently is doing the same thing motorola and all the other phone manufacturers are. the above user @armstrom was right the foxconn layout is called foxconn device code FB400.
    also it appears there are already gingerbread custom and stock roms (2.3.4) out for the huawei x6's. and apparently multitouch is fixed in gingerbread.

    @syadasti i want to apologize. i posted the information you quoted from google. im sure if you can dig up that review or news post or blog or whatever it was you would see my screenname squallz506 or dexter as those are the only ones i use. now listen here kiddies

    the qsd8255 and the msm8655 are almost identical. first off the qsd8255 is known as the msm8255 in the western world. and all msm8x55 chips have the same core, the same clock speed (1ghz), the same tech 45nm, the same adreno 205 gpu, etc. both are second generation snapdragons. google it. the 8655 is cdma and supports ev-do rev. 0 and A, the 8255 is strictly gsm. that is the only difference! i was suprised by how many sites quoted my unauthenticated information so i had to set it straight.

    i believe there is a chart on qualcomm's wiki that confirms that they are the same Snapdragon (system on chip) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia there it is

    what else. there was something else. oh yeah, apparently huawei brought the x6 to cincinatti (how the **** do you spell that?) as the ascend x and t-mobile is getting it as something else. lets hope the western releases are somehow updated from the asian ones. but i doubt it. but remember the oem is not huawei but foxconn this is not a rebadged huawei but probably a design made available by foxconn that phone manufacturers around the world are using. lets hope motorola did something special.
    Gmash likes this.
  16. squallz506

    squallz506 Member

    notice that the motorola is THE ONLY ONE with a different button layout. lets hope that is symptomatic of other differences! oh and sorry for the two posts in a row but i appear to be the number one motorola triumph fanatic.
  17. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    I already said this above succinctly: "Its not the same processor but the same SoC design" and "The Motorola also uses a newer revision of the reference design and has a different radio system to support that specific processor and CDMA networks."
  18. squallz506

    squallz506 Member

    ok lets get down ad dirty while i expose you. now after i post this i am going to be the bigger man and end this argument because i like this forum and want the thread to stay on topic. so after this no more arguing. if you try to argue or insult me i will just ignore you like the bickering child you are acting like. now i do not know how to quote from other threads so here are the links to the individual posts you made regarding the triumph in the other threads.
    "Its a different revision with a different processor and different radio/antenna design - not minor differences."
    "Its not the same as I said - newer revision, different chipset, and different radio system."

    that there is a contradiction first you say "Its not the same... newer revision, different chipset", and "Its a different revision with a different processor... not minor differences".
    then you say "Its not the same processor but the same SoC design" might i add soc is synonymous with chipset?. truth is the processors clock out the same, have the same gpu, same cache, same everything except the radio frequencies so the processors really arent all that different.
    treated. arguement over. lets get back to talking about the motorola triumph.

    edit: more info, the 8255 hit the market sooner (11.03.2010) on the my touch 4g. the htc thunderbolt was the first with an 8655 (04.17.2011).

    other phones with an 8655: HTC Thunderbolt, HTC Droid Incredible 2, LG Revolution, Sharp IS05(SHI05), and, in case you forgot, the Motorola Triumph.

    8255: HTC Desire HD, HTC Desire S, HTC Incredible S, HTC Inspire, Sony Ericsson Xperia series, Sharp GALAPAGOS 003SH/005SH, Sharp DM009SH, Blackberry Bold 9900/9930, Blackberry Torch 9810, Blackberry Touch 9860, CSL Mi410 (Foxconn FB400 based), Huawei U9000 IDEOS X6 (also Foxconn FB400 based)
    note: some of the above phones are the same but on different carriers.
  19. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    You haven't exposed anything, all of those statements I said are true. Its a different version of the same SoC processor - its the CDMA version and the system board on the Triumph has some changes so its a different revision of the reference design.
  20. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    I don't understand all the hair-splitting going on here. Are peoples feelings really hurt that Motorola isn't actually making this phone? Who cares? Don't people realize how incestuous these companies are? Trying to keep track of who makes what and who has the patent for what would make your head spin. Thats why they are suing each other all the time. Does the fact that Foxconn makes it mean it's less of a good phone than it was yesterday? Isn't the list of phones with the same processors impressive enough? It's going to be a damn fine phone for a $300 prepaid Android regardless, so just relax and enjoy it.
    JWhipple and squallz506 like this.
  21. syadasti

    syadasti Member

    No one is saying the outsourcing is good or bad but its normal across the industry. This is a technical point but what I said is true in my last post is true.

    This is similar to the GSM vs. CDMA iPhone 4 - different revisions of the same phone. In that case its the same exact processor with the same exact SoC design. The radio system design does lead to significant differences - both hardware and network based - no SIM, no simultaneous data/voice (CDMA/Verizon network is capable of this on other phones BTW), different system board revision, minor button placement and exterior design differences, better antenna design (no antennagate grip reception problem), lower max data transfer rate (due to CDMA network but Verizon's real world speeds are better), voice conferencing limited to two callers, no call hold, manually set call settings (call forward, call waiting and caller id), and the hotspot feature is available on Verizon (not a technical limitation).
  22. isaacj87

    isaacj87 Well-Known Member

    Just my 2 cents on this...

    Even if the Triumph is a rebranded Huawei X6, Motorola probably has better quality control than Huawei. Moto will support the phone better than Huawei and they have a reputation to uphold. While they do look similar (with very similar specs), I don't think this phone is a Huawei. Even if it is, the X6 (on paper) would be a great phone for pre-paid users.

    It seems Huawei is busy making their own higher-end phone for Cricket (Huawei Glory), so while the Triumph might be manufactured by the same company, it's probably more Motorola than anything else. I have high hopes for this phone and it'll probably be my next phone.

    If Moto kept their word and left the bootloader unlocked (and release the source code in timely manner), I'd like to put CM7 on it. When I worked on the Huawei Ascend, it wasn't fun (it was like polishing a turd), but this looks like a great phone to put CM7 on.
    KOLIO likes this.
  23. 903Tex

    903Tex Well-Known Member

    Yes if this is like the OG droid, then great devs like yourself can make this phone shine! Had cm7 on my ascend because of you! But metro data couldnt do it anymore. Hey quick question? any chance you could possibily work on bring MIUI if you decide to jump on the device??? Gladly donate to the cause!
  24. isaacj87

    isaacj87 Well-Known Member

    I had a look at MIUI awhile back (because I wanted to have it on the Ascend and Optimus V) and IIRC, the whole reason I couldn't get it is because their source isn't open. There's probably no doubt that the Triumph will run MIUI, but it's up to the MIUI devs. It's a shame they won't release the code.
    KOLIO likes this.
  25. insertusername

    insertusername Well-Known Member

    Even if it is a rebranded Huawei, I still think it's a really good phone for what it is. On the other hand, rumor has it that the Optimus Black will come out on VM too. :)

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