Voting Fraud

[OutofDate1980]

It appears Voter Fraud is a big propaganda winner, even though the problem is nonexistent, while the 500 pound gorilla is ignored.

Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control - Salon.com

"The new findings of the Vulnerability Assessment Team echo long-ignored concerns about e-voting vulnerabilities issued by other computer scientists and security experts, the U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team (an arm of the Department of Homeland Security), and even a long-ignored presentation by a CIA official given to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Yes, because we only have a handful of resources to go around. We can't actually go around making jobs by hiring people to swipe ID's to check whether or not that person is in the local system.

I mean, why on Earth would we make voting just as hard as checking out library books?

You have a constitutional right to vote. The verification comes at the time of registration. Voting fraud is not an issue, as Republicans have publicly admitted, it's voter suppression.

The real problem is the voting machines, that's where the effort should be targeted.

 

[OutofDate1980]

What I am saying is there is voter fraud. Apparently, much of it has to do with Acorn. So we start by beating out confessions, getting employees to hang it on Acorn and then use the RICO Act to put them away for life. ...

Your accusation has been proven to be false.

 

[cmybliss]

Requiring an ID to exercise your constitutional right to vote is fundamentally un American. The statistics on voter fraud do not merit such drastic action. These laws have been enacted for one reason only, to suppress the vote of the working poor and minorities. Even if the ID itself were available at no charge, the documents needed to obtain one most often are not. This constitutes a hidden poll tax, and us therefore unconstitutional.

Imagine this scenario if you will. It's 7:00p.m. the Monday before the election. You're late leaving the office because you needed to get some work out of the way so you could take time to go to the polls. You head out to you car and are held up and robbed at gunpoint. You're wallet, along with your I'D is stolen. No way you can get a replacement before the polls close the next day. Too bad for you, I guess you won't be exercising your constitutional right to vote. Maybe you shouldn't have supported that voter ID law after all.

Yes, that was a bit facetious, but a plausible scenario, and yet another mark against these laws.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Imagine this scenario if you will. It's 7:00p.m. the Monday before the election. You're late leaving the office because you needed to get some work out of the way so you could take time to go to the polls. You head out to you car and are held up and robbed at gunpoint. You're wallet, along with your I'D is stolen. No way you can get a replacement before the polls close the next day. Too bad for you, I guess you won't be exercising your constitutional right to vote. Maybe you shouldn't have supported that voter ID law after all.

Yes, that was a bit facetious, but a plausible scenario, and yet another mark against these laws.

Ok, so lets suppose you are knocked out and you are now in a coma. So we should perhaps keep the polls open until you recover? Crap happens that prevents people from voting. This is just how it has always been.

You can float all kinds of ideas and "what ifs." Fact remains, you should have ID to prove who you are before you are allowed to vote.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Requiring an ID to exercise your constitutional right to vote is fundamentally un American. The statistics on voter fraud do not merit such drastic action. These laws have been enacted for one reason only, to suppress the vote of the working poor and minorities. Even if the ID itself were available at no charge, the documents needed to obtain one most often are not. This constitutes a hidden poll tax, and us therefore unconstitutional.

Imagine this scenario if you will. It's 7:00p.m. the Monday before the election. You're late leaving the office because you needed to get some work out of the way so you could take time to go to the polls. You head out to you car and are held up and robbed at gunpoint. You're wallet, along with your I'D is stolen. No way you can get a replacement before the polls close the next day. Too bad for you, I guess you won't be exercising your constitutional right to vote. Maybe you shouldn't have supported that voter ID law after all.

Yes, that was a bit facetious, but a plausible scenario, and yet another mark against these laws.

In that case you'd just cast a provisional ballot. After the fact they'd verify you were who you say you were and your vote would count. Same thing as if you show up at the poll and you haven't registered to vote.

 

[Apoplectic1]

Voting fraud is not an issue, as Republicans have publicly admitted, it's voter suppression.

Please find me one instance where a Republican said "Yep, we're doing this thing to keep poor black people from voting."

 

[cjr72]

The Washington Post did a poll on the issue. It looks like minorities themselves largely (~65%) aren't persuaded by the argument that they are being disenfranchised by these laws. You can break the results down by sex, race, party ID, etc.

 

[Strings]

>Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa.<

Yeah... and the Black Panthers standing outside a polling location, playing with billy clubs, had NO effect!

>It appears Voter Fraud... is nonexistent<

You've made this statement several times. On what are you basing it?

Especially since we have credible reports from the last election of people bused to different polling places all over Milwaukee, and several places in Wisconsin where the vote totals actually exceeded the number of registered voters

 

[OutofDate1980]

>Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa.<

Yeah... and the Black Panthers standing outside a polling location, playing with billy clubs, had NO effect!

>It appears Voter Fraud... is nonexistent<

You've made this statement several times. On what are you basing it?

Especially since we have credible reports from the last election of people bused to different polling places all over Milwaukee, and several places in Wisconsin where the vote totals actually exceeded the number of registered voters

Just because one writes something, doesn't make it true. Have any source ? I provided links to my source. Try reading them.

 

[OutofDate1980]

The Washington Post did a poll on the issue. It looks like minorities themselves largely (~65%) aren't persuaded by the argument that they are being disenfranchised by these laws. You can break the results down by sex, race, party ID, etc.

You might want to look at question 1. How much have you heard or read about some states putting in place new photo-identification requirements for voters -- a lot, some, not much or nothing at all?

All Adults
**NET A lot/Some** .................48%
A lot .......................................21
Some ......................................27
**NET Not much/Nothing at all** 51
Not much ................................15
Nothing at all ...........................36
No opinion ................................*

How much have you heard or read about some states putting in place new photo-identification requirements for voters -- a lot, some, not much or nothing at all? - The Washington Post

 

[Techgeek81]

My $0.02

I got a drivers license when I was 15. I knew a lot of people who had ID cards younger than that.

In all 50 states, you are required to show ID to buy certain things, enter certain businesses etc.

What's wrong with making people prove they are who they claim to be when they vote in elections?

 

[OutofDate1980]

Please find me one instance where a Republican said "Yep, we're doing this thing to keep poor black people from voting."

In most cases, folks don't proclaim from the roof top that they are committing crimes. The Republicans are both attempting to suppress legal voting and manipulate vote counting. We have one Republican addressing voter suppression.

http://androidforums.com/politics-current-affairs/598370-voting-fraud.html#post4801282

 

[OutofDate1980]

My $0.02

I got a drivers license when I was 15. I knew a lot of people who had ID cards younger than that.

In all 50 states, you are required to show ID to buy certain things, enter certain businesses etc.

What's wrong with making people prove they are who they claim to be when they vote in elections?

http://androidforums.com/politics-current-affairs/598370-voting-fraud-2.html#post4825750

 

[Techgeek81]

Can we add a poll to this thread?

Who has a DMV issued ID card?

That's all I want to know.

We call it a poll tax but how taxing is it? I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't have at least an ID card.

Every job I've ever had, including the low wage crap jobs I worked in high school, required two forms of ID as part of the hiring process.

In SC, where I live, ID cards are free if you are 17 or older so the only cost involved is actually going and getting one and ALL of the DMVs are on bus routes which cost less than $1 to ride all day. So much for a poll tax. A state issued ID is good for 10 years in SC.

So either you live near a bus line and can go to the DMV for less than $1 or you live far from a bus line and need to drive places in which case, you have to have a drivers license anyway.

I'm really not seeing the oppression here.

 

[Techgeek81]

http://androidforums.com/politics-current-affairs/598370-voting-fraud-2.html#post4825750

Circular reasoning aside....

 

[OutofDate1980]

...we call it a poll tax but how taxing is it? I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't have at least an ID card. ...

A Poll tax is illegal, doesn't matter how much.

The people you know are not a representative sample of the population.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Circular reasoning aside....

How so ?

 

[Techgeek81]

How so ?

It was a joke. I do that sometimes. You linked to the same page, aka a circular link.

As stated in my post. In SC, there is no charge for photo IDs. There is one for a drivers license. The only "barrier" is getting to the DMV but this can also be said of getting to the polling place.

The point was made that verification happens at registration so it need not be done again at execution (voting).

Let's explore that.

Go to the airport and buy a plane ticket to anywhere you like. The only caveat is that it has to be for at least 2 months from the date of purchase.

I promise you will be required to show ID at the time of purchase (registration).

Now, go to the airport to board your flight and enjoy your trip but tell the TSA employee that you don't have to show your ID at execution (flight time) because you showed it at registration (purchase).

Let me know if you get on the plane.

 

[Techgeek81]

Now let's build on the getting there is the only cost argument.

If any cost qualifies as a poll tax and any poll tax is illegal then no one should have to get themselves to the polling place.

Whether you go in an '86 Station Wagon or a 2012 Mercedes or on the bus, you have to pay to get there yes?

So we ALL pay a poll tax.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Now let's build on the getting there is the only cost argument.

If any cost qualifies as a poll tax and any poll tax is illegal then no one should have to get themselves to the polling place.

Whether you go in an '86 Station Wagon or a 2012 Mercedes or on the bus, you have to pay to get there yes?

So we ALL pay a poll tax.

Your cited examples are not a requisite to vote, a certain type of ID mandated by the government which one must pay for is.

 

[Techgeek81]

Your cited examples are not a requisite to vote, a certain type of ID mandated by the government which one must pay for is.

1. Being there is a requisite to vote. Unless, of course, you cast an absentee ballot but then you have to put a stamp on the envelope and that costs money and OH GOD! It's a poll tax (even though it isn't).

2. Are you just ignoring the fact that I have stated multiple times that, at least in my state which is the one I am most familiar with, the required ID is free of charge to anyone of voting age? All you need to do is walk into the DMV and say "I want an ID card" and they give you one.

 

[Techgeek81]

The people you know are not a representative sample of the population.

What are you basing this on? Cite your source please?

Exactly how many people do I know?

 

[OutofDate1980]

What are you basing this on? Cite your source please?

Exactly how many people do I know?

:stupid:

Sampling (statistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Strings]

2008 voter-intimidation case against New Black Panthers riles the right

Caller to Chris Plante Show Claims Unions are Busing People from Michigan Into Wisconsin to Commit Voter Fraud | Video | TheBlaze.com

There you go: two links.

Not sure why I bothered: you'll disregard whatever disagrees with your beliefs anyway. I've seen that a number of times, on both sides of the political spectrum...