Obama Care Yet Again

[nlsme]

The thing is, by not carrying ins., you are treading on everyone else.

 

[vailpass]

The thing is, by not carrying ins., you are treading on everyone else.

"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth."

 

[Bob Maxey]

The thing is, by not carrying ins., you are treading on everyone else.

And if I offer my minions great care, why should I be fined and punished for my generosity? I remove a few people from the public system, pay for great HC myself, and I am punished for it.

People that do not see this as a democratic ploy to try to take full control of the citizenry needs to read a few books. Obama care will change when the republicans take over and Obama becomes a one term president. Many on the left do not want him because he has not done one thing successfully since he was sworn into office.

 

[AngryHatter]

Insurance companies have been making obscene profits while denying care to people that have paid premiums. Preventative healthcare would save much money, do they think that far ahead?

Obama's plan is a step.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Insurance companies have been making obscene profits while denying care to people that have paid premiums. Preventative healthcare would save much money, do they think that far ahead?

Obama's plan is a step.

OK, then . . . I'll play fair and ask you to list five things the current law changes that represent in any way, good things. As the system rolls out, I think your opinions will change.

As for what insurance companies have or have not been doing, I'll argue that in my case, not at all true. I get great care and service to my insurance company. And I am not sure I am alone. what gets ink is the abuses, not the triumphs.

Bob

 

[noah way]

Why does everyone keep referring to this as Obamacare or Obama's plan?

It was written by industry execs and lobbyists, and "voted" on by people who were paid to do so, most of whom never even read the 2,000 + pages of legislation.

Industry Cash Flowed To Drafters of Reform

Eight Lobbyists for Each Member of Congress

$1.2 billion spent on health care reform lobbying

Wellpoint exec wrote health care lawhttp://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/industry.php?txt=H03&cycle=2010

 

[Crude]

Why does everyone keep referring to this as Obamacare or Obama's plan?

It was written by industry execs and lobbyists, and "voted" on by people who were paid to do so, most of whom never even read the 2,000 + pages of legislation.

Industry Cash Flowed To Drafters of Reform

Eight Lobbyists for Each Member of Congress

$1.2 billion spent on health care reform lobbying

Wellpoint exec wrote health care lawhttp://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/industry.php?txt=H03&cycle=2010

But it's Obamas baby. He wanted it and vowed to veto any attempt to get repeal it. Therefor it's squarely his problem.

 

[Crude]

The thing is, by not carrying ins., you are treading on everyone else.

I'm sorry, but this is more WTF then I can handle. How is my lack of insurance treading on anyone?

 

[mike114]

Insurance companies have been making obscene profits while denying care to people that have paid premiums. Preventative healthcare would save much money, do they think that far ahead?

Obama's plan is a step.

Health insurance profit margins are usually between 3% & 6%. If that's obscene, what would you call Coke with profit margins over 25%??

 

[nlsme]

I'm sorry, but this is more WTF then I can handle. How is my lack of insurance treading on anyone?

Because when you get sick, and cant pay the bill, EVERYONE else does. I can use Drams father and cousin as a case in point.

 

[nlsme]

Health insurance profit margins are usually between 3% & 6%. If that's obscene, what would you call Coke with profit margins over 25%??

You do realize that the $20,000/Hr paid to the CEOs is "overhead"?

 

[nlsme]

OK, then . . . I'll play fair and ask you to list five things the current law changes that represent in any way, good things. As the system rolls out, I think your opinions will change.

As for what insurance companies have or have not been doing, I'll argue that in my case, not at all true. I get great care and service to my insurance company. And I am not sure I am alone. what gets ink is the abuses, not the triumphs.

Bob

How sick have you actually been? I am willing to bet, you have paid in more then you have cost them. My wife is a nurse, she spends eighty percent of her workday, fighting with the insurance industry, on the Dr/patients behalf.

 

[mdram]

You do realize that the $20,000/Hr paid to the CEOs is "overhead"?

thats almost the cost of a president (if you only count the campaign costs)

good executives get good money. im sure if someone offered you those salaries you would not turn it down.
if they make a company profitable, they get paid more, if they dont they usually dont last long

 

[nlsme]

thats almost the cost of a president (if you only count the campaign costs)

good executives get good money. im sure if someone offered you those salaries you would not turn it down.
if they make a company profitable, they get paid more, if they dont they usually dont last long

Not only does that not address the point of my comment, it is a cop out answer. The ceos of yester-year did not make 1000 times what the average employee makes. And, they are by far NOT "good execs". If they were, they wouldnt be replaced every 2 years. The point of my comment above was, is that it is kinda hard to show a profit margin above 3-5%, when the top paid employee makes 8%.

Now, onto "fairness", is it fair that I have to pay for the upkeep on those 8 bridges you cross every morning on your way to work? Is it fair that I have to pay your 4 kids way through school? All thirteen years, maybe more if they go to college? How about homeland security? I dont live in a large city, the chance of a terrorist attack at MY home is VERY low. Yet, MY money is going to protect you!!!

 

[mdram]

Not only does that not address the point of my comment, it is a cop out answer. The ceos of yester-year did not make 1000 times what the average employee makes. And, they are by far NOT "good execs". If they were, they wouldnt be replaced every 2 years. The point of my comment above was, is that it is kinda hard to show a profit margin above 3-5%, when the top paid employee makes 8%.

easily remedied, start a corp, be the ceo, and take small pay, decrease costs, run the others out of business, nothing stopping you

Now, onto "fairness", is it fair that I have to pay for the upkeep on those 8 bridges you cross every morning on your way to work? Is it fair that I have to pay your 4 kids way through school? All thirteen years, maybe more if they go to college? How about homeland security? I dont live in a large city, the chance of a terrorist attack at MY home is VERY low. Yet, MY money is going to protect you!!!

is it fair, nope, never said i agreed with any of that.
but infrastructure is what allows commerce, without out it business would falter.

oh and i live in a very rural location, heck its 50 miles just to get to work.
i pay more then my share of upkeep via gas taxes, as im sure you do
now those that live in urban areas that dont do this should not get the profits from it. leave those taxes in the area where they originate

 

[nlsme]

easily remedied, start a corp, be the ceo, and take small pay, decrease costs, run the others out of business, nothing stopping you




is it fair, nope, never said i agreed with any of that.
but infrastructure is what allows commerce, without out it business would falter.

oh and i live in a very rural location, heck its 50 miles just to get to work.
i pay more then my share of upkeep via gas taxes, as im sure you do
now those that live in urban areas that dont do this should not get the profits from it. leave those taxes in the area where they originate

The bridges was used in my example above, because the gas tax doesnt account for who crosses them and who doesnt. It was another example of some people paying more for less. Your neighbor, who also drives fifty miles to work may only cross one bridge. Maybe ALL bridges should be tolls? Maybe set up tolls every mile of every road, that way, you really do pay for the upkeep? And schools? You didnt even address that. Maybe send an annual bill for every kid, for the TRUE cost of their education, instead of having it spread out through the community.

As for infrastructure, and it being what keeps the economy going. I would like to point out that hospitals are infrastructure. Schools are infrastructure. I am willing to bet, that your job, in some way, deals with urban areas. So, you want to make it cost exponentially more for the people that live there, to live there.

As for me creating a bussiness and driving them out of bussiness, not really feasable. But, at least you can now admit, there is something wrong with them making that kind of money. How their pay has increased exponentially, while the average workers has grown at a snails pace. Or was that just a deflection again to the point of my arguement?

 

[mdram]

well the road thing is being looked at, as an fyi, there are pilot programs in 1 or 2 states with a pay by mileage tax

and i have never agreed with the way schools are funded or built, it should only be covered by parents of children, if you dont have kids you shouldn't have to pay for them. of course this would eliminate property tax, and we cant have that as the rich would get even richer

and no there is nothing wrong with tehm making that kind of money, i would take it if i could get it. but im sure you would turn it down and only take a salary equal to the regular workers. as a matter of fact i bet you turned down every raise you ever got offered until all the people you worked with got similar raises

 

[nlsme]

As an fyi, even a mileage tax isnt going to take into account the ten bridges you drive over, that your neighbor doesnt.

As far as schools, you must not have kids. Or just dont care about the fact our education system is already lacking.

I have never turned down a raise, your right. However, it has been a really long time since I had a "boss" (other than the wife). That still doesnt address the fact that they make 1000 times what their average employee makes. Or the fact that this is a relatively new trend in corporate America. Why did CEO's in the past only make 20 times the average worker, and now it is 1000 times and rising? I am not jealous of the rich, I dont like the widening gap. There is no way to justify it. America is going down the drain.

 

[mdram]

our education system is lacking due to corruption and unions. teachers that dont perform cannot be fired, kids cant be failed.
if was a pay as you use system, kids would be yanked out of public schools and put into private as the cost would be the same.

but this is another debate.
and no i dont have kids

america is going down the drain due to the entitlement mentality

 

[nlsme]

Yeah, the entitlement mentality of the rich. Private schools would triple(if not more) their rates if that were the case. Supply and demand. And it was obvious you dont have kids.

 

[anexanhume]

Sorry to hear about your family's troubles mdram. It's because I care about people in those situations that I want to see UHC implemented.

For instance, Vermont is just now signing it into law, and a very well respected economist estimates it will save them almost 25% in costs.

Single-Payer in Vermont, A State of Healthy Firsts | Common Dreams

 

[nlsme]

Yeah, the entitlement mentality of the rich. Private schools would triple(if not more) their rates if that were the case. Supply and demand. And it was obvious you dont have kids.

Double post, seven minutes later?

 

[mdram]

Sorry to hear about your family's troubles mdram. It's because I care about people in those situations that I want to see UHC implemented.

For instance, Vermont is just now signing it into law, and a very well respected economist estimates it will save them almost 25% in costs.

Single-Payer in Vermont, A State of Healthy Firsts | Common Dreams

yeah and originally medicare was projected to cost 9nillion in 1990, it only cost 66 billion
its up to 20% of all government spending as of 2008

government management at its finest

 

[nlsme]

yeah and originally medicare was projected to cost 9nillion in 1990, it only cost 66 billion
its up to 20% of all government spending as of 2008

government management at its finest

Maybe that has a little something to do with the fact that the American middle class is dissapearing? Or the fact that healthcare costs are rising at a ridiculous rate? I know my rates have more than tripled in the last 10 years.

 

[noah way]

america is going down the drain due to the entitlement mentality

American has gone down the drain due to massive greed and corruption at the highest levels.

Trillions in tax dollars given without questions to "bailout" banks, insurers, Wall Street and even automakers. Trillions poured into the Iraq / Afghanistan oil cesspool (on behalf of Exxon Mobile and BP, who are busy drilling there now) including billions in bribes to warlords and planeloads of palletized, shrink wrapped $100 bills that vanished without trace. Hundreds of billions paid to corporations for no-bid contracts (competitive, eh?) on everything from Iraq to Katrina. Trillions in unpaid corporate taxes. Hundreds of billions annually in direct corporate subsidies (taxes you paid given by the government to profitable private businesses).

And you think 1.6 million people on welfare (now called temporary assistance for families in need) who can collect (for a limited time) a maximum of about $600 per month for a family of four is the problem? Compare this $11 billion with the countless trillions in the first list. Madoff alone stole more than that.

Funny how you reject the idea of the government taking your money (taxes) and using it to help people but don't object at all to the government taking your money (taxes) and giving it away to the super-rich.