Apple iPad 3 launch => Android win? Apple win?

[A.Nonymous]

I'm sorry but you're wrong here buddy. If your logic held true, that means McDonalds has the best Cheeseburger in the world. This is definitely NOT the case.

Tell that to McDonald's owners and they'll stick their heads out of their piles of money and laugh at you. Whatever you define as "best" is irrelevant if you're not successful in the marketplace.

 

[Stuntman]

Sorry, but the OS and its updates are the ONLY reason I even own an Android. If you don't care about updates and the improvements to the OS and new tech, you might as well just have an old school flip phone.

I care about the features I currently have with my phone running Gingerbread. So far, I haven't seen anything in ICS that I would consider to be a must have that would make me want to buy a new phone to get it. Sure, there may be a few things that are nice to have like better and resizable widgets, but I'm happy with my phone without them before the release of ICS and I can't see why I cannot be happy without them after the release of ICS.

 

[IOWA]

Tell that to McDonald's owners and they'll stick their heads out of their piles of money and laugh at you. Whatever you define as "best" is irrelevant if you're not successful in the marketplace.

Not quite. There is a rather large difference between the best, and the best selling.

 

[Gmash]

Tell that to McDonald's owners and they'll stick their heads out of their piles of money and laugh at you. Whatever you define as "best" is irrelevant if you're not successful in the marketplace.

How much money a company makes matters to them, not me, the end user. Would you really rather eat a McDonalds burger than an excellent burger from, say, the local bar and grill (every city has at least one good one), just because McDonalds makes more money? Is a Hyundai better than a Ferrari because they sell more? I don't understand the logic. Most of the best examples of almost any product are made by niche brands.

 

[EarlyMon]

With mobile devices, I think it's more of a comparison between McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, and your local similar burger chain than to a local pub.

When McDonalds first launched, their burgers were delicious and the fries were made from fresh whole potatoes, peeled and sliced on the spot.

Mass production often involves compromise. It is what it is, I suppose.

 

[Gmash]

With mobile devices, I think it's more of a comparison between McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, and your local similar burger chain than to a local pub.

When McDonalds first launched, their burgers were delicious and the fries were made from fresh whole potatoes, peeled and sliced on the spot.

Mass production often involves compromise. It is what it is, I suppose.

Good points as always, EM. I guess these things are kind of stuck on a fast food level, especially with carrier subsidies making them all about the same price. There's no crazy high end devices like you have in the digital camera world, for example. Though I guess phones and tablets are considered to be more of disposable devices, especially now with the non replaceable batteries there's even more of a planned obsolescence.

Anyway, to back up a bit, I never meant to imply the new iPad wasn't the best tablet out there, it isn't even out yet, so how would I know? I was just disagreeing with the notion that something being popular MAKES it the best. It's certainly possible for something to be both the best and the most popular, just not necessarily so.

Since we were (kinda) talking about McDonalds, and this IS the lounge, i'm gonna post this just for the heck of it. Sorry if it's too far off topic, but another post got me thinking about this movie the other day, and I highly recommend it.

McDonald's, the meat industry, and chickens (from Food, Inc) - YouTube

 

[zuben el genub]

Re: subsidies:

Looks like TMO has its own version of Randall Stephenson or Linus Torvalds.

Are Phone Subsidies Costing You? - Mobiledia

You decide.

 

[zuben el genub]

Oh Boo-hoo:
Apple forced to cut profit margins with new iPad, analyst says

 

[EarlyMon]

Oh Boo-hoo:
Apple forced to cut profit margins with new iPad, analyst says

Written by BGR's Android Editor.

Not as funny as your boo hoo, but still quite the oxymoron.

 

[Bnice]

Oh Boo-hoo:
Apple forced to cut profit margins with new iPad, analyst says

They also have to stay competitive price wise with the competition.

 

[A.Nonymous]

They also have to stay competitive price wise with the competition.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Apple has always sold their products at "premium" prices.

 

[psychotron]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Apple has always sold their products at "premium" prices.

We had this discussion earlier, or maybe another thread. People don't factor in the huge, quality display to the cost of a Mac. The 27 inch is 2560x1440. Do you know how much those cost by themselves at that size and resolution? Well into the thousands and then you still need the actual computer! The current iMac is $1550 right now for that huge display with a quad core i5. Pretty damn good deal really.

 

[Bnice]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Apple has always sold their products at "premium" prices.

Yes I understand Apple sell their products as a premium but in the article it states how the components cost more compare to the last ipad and the new ipad pricing is the same as the previous model.If they had raised the price, many would be complaining.

 

[Covart]

for anyone saying that Android will now surpass the iPad, because the new ipad is the same as the 2, or that it was a failed launch or whatever, well, i have been hearing that for 2 years now. Why does the ipad sell more in a quarter than all the other companies combined in a year? Is there really half a billion "isheep" out there? Nope. Simplistic OS, with an app for any type of person and profession, excellent optimization, complete ecosystem, quality construction and in most cases excellent customer service. The majority of people want these things, regardless of customization options or a killer gpu. although i think the retina display will sway a few extra people to buy.

by the wa, it appears Apple sold out of their entire pre-inventory in 36 hours. Some are estimating between 6-10 million units.

That said, I won't be buying the new ipad. My ipad2 is jailbroken with a ton more features on it not allowed by Apple. You will have to pry my jailbroken ipad2 from my cold, dead hands before I give it up for a newer ipad that can not be customized! And I am not talking about visual customizations either. I seriously do not know how people can function with a standard iphone or ipad?
Does that make me a hypocrit? Maybe.......

 

[Covart]

We had this discussion earlier, or maybe another thread. People don't factor in the huge, quality display to the cost of a Mac. The 27 inch is 2480x1440. Do you know how much those cost by themselves at that size and resolution? Well into the thousands and then you still need the actual computer! The current iMac is $1550 right now for that huge display with a quad core i5. Pretty damn good deal really.

Oh my god! You are not kidding about the iMac display. 27 inch retina style display. It hurts my eyes to go back and look at my ipad2 or Touchpad and the pathetic screen quality.

 

[zuben el genub]

I thought Apple was sort of forced into improving work conditions at Foxconn.
(either public outcry or China)
That would increase the costs.

 

[IOWA]

for anyone saying that Android will now surpass the iPad, because the new ipad is the same as the 2, or that it was a failed launch or whatever, well, i have been hearing that for 2 years now. Why does the ipad sell more in a quarter than all the other companies combined in a year? Is there really half a billion "isheep" out there? Nope. Simplistic OS, with an app for any type of person and profession, excellent optimization, complete ecosystem, quality construction and in most cases excellent customer service. The majority of people want these things, regardless of customization options or a killer gpu. although i think the retina display will sway a few extra people to buy.

by the wa, it appears Apple sold out of their entire pre-inventory in 36 hours. Some are estimating between 6-10 million units.

That said, I won't be buying the new ipad. My ipad2 is jailbroken with a ton more features on it not allowed by Apple. You will have to pry my jailbroken ipad2 from my cold, dead hands before I give it up for a newer ipad that can not be customized! And I am not talking about visual customizations either. I seriously do not know how people can function with a standard iphone or ipad?
Does that make me a hypocrit? Maybe.......

So many people forget so fast, this is how the iPhone started out.. where are they now? About half the market share of Android. This has been going on for ages too. Windows Phone 7 might not be a real competitor, but Win8 in the tablet space WILL be. Keep in mind, I don't like what I've seen of Win8 at ALL.

"Retina" still makes me giggle. The way people fall for marketing terms... sad..really.

I will say the RESOLUTION on these displays is quite nice, albeit a bit of overkill for most uses. I mean sure, all those pixels sound great in theory, but the human eye DOES have limitations, and not everyone's vision is as good as they think it is. Most people can't tell the different between 720p and 1080p @ 32" or less. Food for thought.

 

[Bnice]

We had this discussion earlier, or maybe another thread. People don't factor in the huge, quality display to the cost of a Mac. The 27 inch is 2560x1440. Do you know how much those cost by themselves at that size and resolution? Well into the thousands and then you still need the actual computer! The current iMac is $1550 right now for that huge display with a quad core i5. Pretty damn good deal really.

Your pricing is a little off, it's more like $1699.(just saying)and don't forget tax.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

So many people forget so fast, this is how the iPhone started out.. where are they now? About half the market share of Android. This has been going on for ages too. Windows Phone 7 might not be a real competitor, but Win8 in the tablet space WILL be. Keep in mind, I don't like what I've seen of Win8 at ALL.

Phone model is different. People NEED phones. Phones are also subsidized.
There is a great correlation that no one has mentioned. Why does iOS have a greater mobile browsing, app store purchases. 60% of all of Google's mobile ad revenues come from iOS. This is based off their testimony to Congress earlier this year. Maybe the correlation is a large number of those who buy BOGO (Buy One Get One Free) or $0.99 Android phones are using them as dumb-phones without ever touching the eco-system. Never surfing the web. Never downloading the apps. Hence, why does iPhones have over 60% of the mobile web traffic?

Tablets, well, people buy out of want more than need.
Samsung themselves have admitted their tablet strategy/sales are not doing to well.

Point is the Phone model is not the same as the tablet model. One analysts said the iPad model is more like the iPod model. The iPod Model is all about want. 10 years of market dominance and you don't hear anything about Sansa or Zune. iPod is still 70% share.

"Retina" still makes me giggle. The way people fall for marketing terms... sad..really.

Well, $500 ipad is the cheapest high res 2048 display on the market. The next monitor with that resolution or greater is $900. That would be the Dell U2711 Ultrasharp. As I mentioned before, you can buy 1080p screens for $100 all day long but to get higher than that, you need dual-link dvi, the appropriate GFX card and a $900 monitor.


I watched the keynote today. The take-away I got was the key reason why iPads dominate is due to the software.

The "Flash" trump-card on Android hasn't made a dent to sway consumers.

When they demoed the GarageBand "Jam Session", the iMovie's trailer app and iPhoto, I realize that 2 years AFTER the fact of iPad's release, there are no Android equivalent apps comparable.

Jam Session is pretty cool. You get 4-5 of your friends and they can all play musical instrument cohesively and everything is paired. That is the type of software superiority that apple has.

A lot of people bitch that the A5X does not have quad core or SD card like the Tranformer Prime. OK, what app on Android allows you to open up Nikon D300 RAW 12 megapixel files and edit them? None. Android Photoshop touch has a 2.56 megapixel limit and does not even do raw. 2.56 megapixel limit. iPhoto on iPad's is 19 megapixel. Medium format res.

My point. All the horsepower in the world on the Asus is not relevant if there is no app to take advantage of it.

 

[Covart]

So many people forget so fast, this is how the iPhone started out.. where are they now? About half the market share of Android. This has been going on for ages too. Windows Phone 7 might not be a real competitor, but Win8 in the tablet space WILL be. Keep in mind, I don't like what I've seen of Win8 at ALL.

"Retina" still makes me giggle. The way people fall for marketing terms... sad..really.

I will say the RESOLUTION on these displays is quite nice, albeit a bit of overkill for most uses. I mean sure, all those pixels sound great in theory, but the human eye DOES have limitations, and not everyone's vision is as good as they think it is. Most people can't tell the different between 720p and 1080p @ 32" or less. Food for thought.

retina is an Apple term that seems to have stuck. The use of it doesn't bother me like say the term Ultrabook by Intel.

And the comparisons between phones and tablets has been and always will be flawed. A phone is seen as a necessity and many are free or very affordable when you want Android. This is why, as a whole, Android has the marketshare. But comparing individual manufacturers against each other shows a very different picture.

As for tablets, these are neither necessities, nor cheap. They are an investment, much like a computer. People will not be buying these in the 3rd world by the millions. There will not be buy one, get one free deals (unless the company is having a firesale and going out of the business).
Assuming Android continues to be the primary OS for most manufacturers, I am sure we will eventually see Android based tablets take over in marketshare lead (as a whole, not a single manufacturer), assuming of course, those companies don't switch over to M$?

a lot of assumptions and opinions here in 2012. the future is uncertain and looking to the past, in a completely diffent category of electronics, is unlikely to give us a quality prediction on the future. in my opinion, of course.

 

[jonmorris]

To this day I do not understand why people must always be on the bleeding edge of technology or they're pissed. They buy the biggest, best and baddest phone today. Fine. Go for it. Three months from now, something comes out that is better. It's inevitably going to happen. Suddenly the phone that they loved more than life is a POS that he wouldn't recommend to their most despised enemy and no one in their right mind should buy it. To me that's the most ludicrous reasoning I've ever heard.

A very good point. When I met Steve Jobs (at the UK launch of the iPhone with O2), he made it clear that Apple will always release something better next week (not a literal quote I might add!) but that was the price to pay for continued innovation - and you just buy what you are happy with at the time.

Of course, at least with Apple you can buy the iPad 3 and know it won't actually be superseded next week. Even when it comes to Android devices, it's not likely to happen that quick - but it seems like that when you round up all the products from every manufacturer.

But if you're happy with what you have, why worry about what has just come out? If you're that bothered, sell it and upgrade. In fact, if you're always desperate for the best product - don't go signing 18 or 24 month contracts. In fact, don't sign ANY contract with a phone. Buy the phone SIM-free, get a nice 30-day rolling contract and buy/sell your devices on demand. It will probably be cheaper in the long run, as you can simply move from one network to another to take advantage of special deals/promotions on tariffs.

 

[jonmorris]

I care about the features I currently have with my phone running Gingerbread. So far, I haven't seen anything in ICS that I would consider to be a must have that would make me want to buy a new phone to get it.

The jump to ICS is actually quite significant, if only because it supports hardware acceleration for the UI and it gets rid of a lot of lagging issues that can occur even on some very decent hardware.

The apps look more uniform and less disjointed, and there are other tweaks. However, the apps themselves will look much the same and I wouldn't necessarily buy a new device to get ICS - although many may be upgradeable with custom/unofficial ROMs.

A problem for Android is that some devices may change quite a bit from 2.x to 4.x - and the ordinary consumer might get confused, frustrated or even angry to have things change. Apple has certainly tried hard to keep iOS looking familiar through successive updates, although that is making it increasingly difficult for the UI to handle so many new features. The settings menu is a bit of a mess now, and it will only get worse as they add new things.

As Apple has to struggle to find a solution to that, Android is beginning to get a lot more organised and slick.

 

[jonmorris]

I thought Apple was sort of forced into improving work conditions at Foxconn.
(either public outcry or China) That would increase the costs.

Yes, but you'll see that Apple usually offer 3 variations on any model (look in a store and you'll see how they do it for the iMac, Mac Mini or whatever) and most people buy the middle one. It's not as if anyone at Apple does hard selling on customers - they leave you to sell the product to yourself! Some may go for the top, but for the most part - it's the middle product.

So, where Apple does really well is by selling you something that costs you, say, $100-200 more, for components that cost far less. Kerching!

How many people buy the 8GB iPod touch? You trade-up and Apple has just made a load of extra profit for SSD memory that they're getting dirt cheap. Ditto with the iPhone and iPad. And it isn't

 

[A.Nonymous]

We had this discussion earlier, or maybe another thread. People don't factor in the huge, quality display to the cost of a Mac. The 27 inch is 2560x1440. Do you know how much those cost by themselves at that size and resolution? Well into the thousands and then you still need the actual computer! The current iMac is $1550 right now for that huge display with a quad core i5. Pretty damn good deal really.

HP sells a Touchsmart with similar hardware specs for less money. And the HP one is a touch screen, I don't think the iMac is. Apple does slap premium prices on their products. There's no reason why they shouldn't either. People are obviously willing to pay those prices so why not.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

HP sells a Touchsmart with similar hardware specs for less money. And the HP one is a touch screen, I don't think the iMac is. Apple does slap premium prices on their products. There's no reason why they shouldn't either. People are obviously willing to pay those prices so why not.

Once again... The HP Touchsmart is at most a 1080p screen

Design :: HP TouchSmart
HP TouchSmart 610-1065qd Review & Rating | PCMag.com

Apple's 27" is 2560-by-1440.

You can buy 1080p screens all day long for $100.

But you wont get a 2560x1440 screen for less than $900.