Official 4G/WiMax: what is it, why do we want it

[talz13]

Yes they will, you can not use them for a server function sorry. The 3g will change every time you reconnect and the wimax will change, just a lot slower.

The only reason you need a static ip is to connect a 2 way link with a home/general server. This is a bad idea from the start. If you are planing to run a gaming/home/business/personal server off your htc evo connection, it will not work or just ruin your phone. Your phone is not a modem and server connection.

On the other hand, you can just use a dynamic DNS provider like no-ip.info to keep an up-to-date connection open on whatever your ip address is!

 

[RiverOfIce]

On the other hand, you can just use a dynamic DNS provider like no-ip.info to keep an up-to-date connection open on whatever your ip address is!

Yes you can, but then you will have to slow down the connection. And if the service provider blocked access to no-ip.org because you are violating your terms of service agreement, you would have to recommit to something else.

 

[talz13]

Yes you can, but then you will have to slow down the connection. And if the service provider blocked access to no-ip.org because you are violating your terms of service agreement, you would have to recommit to something else.

Can you explain what you mean that "you will have to slow down the connection"? Dynamic DNS just supplies an easily updatable way to point DNS at your current IP. It should be as fast as any other means of accessing an IP.

I'm not advocating running any kind of business server on there, but it's convenient to be able to SSH into my home server via DNS rather than remembering my cable IP.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Can you explain what you mean that "you will have to slow down the connection"? Dynamic DNS just supplies an easily updatable way to point DNS at your current IP. It should be as fast as any other means of accessing an IP.

I'm not advocating running any kind of business server on there, but it's convenient to be able to SSH into my home server via DNS rather than remembering my cable IP.

To keep it simple. Every time you pass a packet it must ping off the Dns address server, get your current ip, then transfer to your ip.

If the dns address server fails to deliver your ip address, your ip server will recommit the packet and try again. With a static is a to b. With dns server it is a to b to c. If packets into b exceeds the bandwidth of the dns server, your connection to c will slow. Regardless of what the connection of a and c are, you need to wait for b to pass packets.

In simple terms, you have 3 guys with radios. Person 1 and 2 do not change channels. Person 3 must change channels every few mins.

Person 1 call person 2 to get the channel for person 3. If person 2 does not answer back, person 3 can not be contacted. With wimax it is alot harder.
Because you have like 20 people, and 10 of them are changing channels. But with wimax, they system knows when 1 of the 10 stop communicating, and just works around him.

Bottom line is that if your dns server stops tell you the new ip, your connection will slow or stop. It just adds another step in the process.

 

[talz13]

To keep it simple. Every time you pass a packet it must ping off the Dns address server, get your current ip, then transfer to your ip.

If the dns address server fails to deliver your ip address, your ip server will recommit the packet and try again. With a static is a to b. With dns server it is a to b to c. If packets into b exceeds the bandwidth of the dns server, your connection to c will slow. Regardless of what the connection of a and c are, you need to wait for b to pass packets.

In simple terms, you have 3 guys with radios. Person 1 and 2 do not change channels. Person 3 must change channels every few mins.

Person 1 call person 2 to get the channel for person 3. If person 2 does not answer back, person 3 can not be contacted. With wimax it is alot harder.
Because you have like 20 people, and 10 of them are changing channels. But with wimax, they system knows when 1 of the 10 stop communicating, and just works around him.

Bottom line is that if your dns server stops tell you the new ip, your connection will slow or stop. It just adds another step in the process.

Ok, I agree that it could be a slow headache with wimax. My experience on cable has been great, but I believe I've had the same IP for years on end (even though it's technically dynamic IP) since my router rarely ever disconnects, and if it does, it comes back before the lease time expires.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Ok, I agree that it could be a slow headache with wimax. My experience on cable has been great, but I believe I've had the same IP for years on end (even though it's technically dynamic IP) since my router rarely ever disconnects, and if it does, it comes back before the lease time expires.

Then it would not have a problem with your connection. Since it is semi-static ip, it would try a to b and when that failed, abc.

 

[fvkenzz]

Yes they will, you can not use them for a server function sorry. The 3g will change every time you reconnect and the wimax will change, just a lot slower.

The only reason you need a static ip is to connect a 2 way link with a home/general server. This is a bad idea from the start. If you are planing to run a gaming/home/business/personal server off your htc evo connection, it will not work or just ruin your phone. Your phone is not a modem and server connection.

thanks for breaking it down, no I wasn't going to use it for a server just for sites like ebay and paypal.

 

[RiverOfIce]

thanks for breaking it down, no I wasn't going to use it for a server just for sites like ebay and paypal.

You would be soo far ahead if you just downloaded the apps for that.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/mobile/MobileAndroid-outside
eBay on Android

The apps will work better then a static ip.

 

[fvkenzz]

You would be soo far ahead if you just downloaded the apps for that.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/mobile/MobileAndroid-outside
eBay on Android

The apps will work better then a static ip.

lol i never wanted a static ip, i need a dynamic IP. Just like when i tether with my G1, it spits out random IP's in the IP range. The virgin mobile broadband2go got me worried that the sprint network is different when it come to IP changes. The broadband2go from virgin uses sprint 3g towers and the IP never changes which is bad, i felt like i wasted money.

 

[shappy]

I have not read through this whole thread, so I am not sure if this has been posted or not: http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/wimax-lte-4g-mobile-broadband-shootout.jpg

 

[RiverOfIce]

Sigh, I do not even know where to start. There are soo many lie, untruths, and deceptions in that poster it makes kittens cry. But I will tackle the one big one. Wimax and lte will not deliver more the 10mbps to your cellphone, in the near future. Not until we have a radical creation of a battery, will we get that kind of speed. Sorry, it will no happen. At 10mbps you will get about 1-1.5 hours of battery life with wimax. With lte it will be about 45-1 hour. At 100mbps both Technologies will kill you phone at 4 mins. It is just not possible. The other issue with that map. There are 64 lte carriers world wide. There are 161+ carriers of wimax. WiMAX Maps That map does not even exist for lte. List of deployed WiMAX networks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RiverOfIce]

post got cut in half for some reason... But you know what really gets me, just really makes me mad. Is that they are comparing one technology that exist today in its infancy to another technology that does not exist, but at its must mature level. That is what really gets me. It is like me saying. Ok, I am going to compare modern computers with computer 20 years in the future. And I am not even going to base it in fact. A computer in the future will have 1000 cores. Todays, lol, have only 8. Yes the future wins!!!!!!! The most irrational numbers I can invent beats out reality. It is highly unlikely that you will get your 50mbps on average for lte. Because the bandwidth does not exist. To get 50mbps you need at least 20-40mhz of spectrum. Lte only has 10mhz max of spectrum to give. Ok, I am done, got that out. The poster does have pretty colors though.

 

[Rigmaster]

Theory is theory. Though I think Sprint's got a tough road of it being the only carrier choosing Wimax for next-gen, Wimax is deliverable and can be scaled. I see that cable carriers are also beginning to use it for remote deployments where traditional installation is cost-prohibitive. Wimax will be here for a long time.

LTE probably will emerge too, and it's good to have another technology until one proves itself so good, affordable, and reliable that it basically makes others obsolete. But I can't see LTE coming along fast enough for carriers to really consider it anything more than an additional channel/capability for quite a while.

What the graphs point out to me is Wimax is ready for use now. So I'm going with a phone and network that use it. LTE might be more than a limited-use test product later, but it's probably not going to be that way for at least 3-4 years. Do I think LTE will rollout at 2+ the speed it took for Wimax to go from Xohm to now? No, it's probably going to look somewhat like it. There will be a big push from the other carriers, but I don't think they're far enough for me to care just yet.

With all the talk of iPhone 4G, people shouldn't be laughing about the possibility that neither VZW or ATT are a lock. I thought about the Sprint CFO saying we'd love to have iPhone, but what if he was really saying "we'd love to have iPhone on our 4G network?" Though both carriers have more subscribers now - do they really have the potential to get Apple amped about putting a 4G phone on LTE when it just won't be available to iPhone users at least until late '11 or sometime in '12? I'd argue that they'd sell millions of them on the Now Network.

Let's just see what happens....

 

[RiverOfIce]

Theory is theory. Though I think Sprint's got a tough road of it being the only carrier choosing Wimax for next-gen, Wimax is deliverable and can be scaled.

Lte can not roll out with out wimax. It just cant happen. To lay 1 miles of fiber in a major city cost 1 million dollars. Wimax will offer the same speeds and bandwidth for less then 1,000 dollars per mile. There is no contest. Wimax has to backhaul lte.

 

[Nem_Zero]

The picture with pretty colors that I want to see arise is the spectrum breakdown of these two services and how those spectrums accomodate (or fail to do so with) those technologies.

 

[drksilenc]

... really they said clear started the rollout of wimax in 2009? way off it was 06 or 07 that they started there rollout

 

[RiverOfIce]

The picture with pretty colors that I want to see arise is the spectrum breakdown of these two services and how those spectrums accomodate (or fail to do so with) those technologies.

You ever hear of the phrase, "Never ask them a question and you will never hear them lying?" Here is the fundamental problem with wimax and lte.
For 2010 roll out, you will have (just looking at down)
Down
777 MHz to 787 MHz
003 788 MHz to 798 MHz
704 MHz to 716 MHz
To add it up, that is only 32mhz for 2010. 1 evo can suck up 20mhz of that. After they use that they will have to convert 3g and voice over.
With everything converted over
down
1710 MHz to 1755 MHz 013
824 MHz to 849 MHz
1749.9 MHz to 1784.9 MHz
That equals 137mhz, or 7 evo's running full bore.

Wimax, currently has 2501.0 MHz 2685.0 MHZ.
Not removing any voice or data, wimax has enough bandwidth to support all of lte and wimax combined. That is 184MHz right now. With the possibility of using 3.5ghz, 1.9Ghz, 900mhz, and 5.3Ghz (off the top of my head).

... really they said clear started the rollout of wimax in 2009? way off it was 06 or 07 that they started there rollout

Kittens cry when you repeat that poster.

http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures2/funny-pictures-tasty-kittens-qES.jpg

 

[eieio]

 

[Rigmaster]

Possum on a gum tree! Just what I needed to see to get me hyped about NJ and Wimax. Now if we could only get all of NJ covered since it's between NYC and Philly. Hope Sprint/Clearwire have an easier/faster time getting towers installed in NJ to help cover NYC so we can have even more Wimax love.

 

[eieio]

 

[TECHMAN]

Sigh, I do not even know where to start. There are soo many lie, untruths, and deceptions in that poster it makes kittens cry. But I will tackle the one big one. Wimax and lte will not deliver more the 10mbps to your cellphone, in the near future. Not until we have a radical creation of a battery, will we get that kind of speed. Sorry, it will no happen. At 10mbps you will get about 1-1.5 hours of battery life with wimax. With lte it will be about 45-1 hour. At 100mbps both Technologies will kill you phone at 4 mins. It is just not possible. The other issue with that map. There are 64 lte carriers world wide. There are 161+ carriers of wimax. WiMAX Maps That map does not even exist for lte. List of deployed WiMAX networks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

River, I know you quoted this info before, but could you please list mobile devices hardware limitation on speed?

I believe you said 3g was linited to a theoretical 3mbps and 4g was? What would lte be as well?

The point being that whatever the networks post as speed will never happen unless we have a fissionable battery lol

 

[RussC]

I have a question regarding 4G WiMax equipment. Is there a visible difference between WiMax antennae and 3G antennae on cell towers? I drive by several towers going to and from work and was wondering if I would be able to observe a 4G build-out by Sprint?

I live in Baton Rouge, LA and have been told that currently we don't even have 3G. However, While at Best Buy this afternoon I was able to play with a live Evo for a bit and it clearly showed that it was accessing a 3G network. The Sprint Rep mentioned that 3G is officially coming next month and 4G will be coming next year.

 

[RiverOfIce]

I believe you said 3g was linited to a theoretical 3mbps and 4g was? What would lte be as well?

Evo is the easiest to do.
http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g/72301-official-sprint-htc-evo-4g-info-faq.html#post669923

• 4G data speeds (WiMAX)

 

[Autosuggestion]

I think it was you River that posted a website, that had a list of towers specifically.

It had a black background.

Sorry, going off memory here but I'd love to check that site out again!

 

[eieio]

Good read on the wimax build out
Sprint: Clearwire Has “We’ll Fix Once We Launch It” Approach, No More “Fooling Around”