Mosque Being Built 2 Blocks Away From Ground Zero... What Do You Think?

[mpw]

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[byteware]

Or.
Yes.
It makes H Truman's participation in the conflict in part based on religious beliefs/guidance.
Quite.

I think this right here establishes a bias that seems to make further discussion pointless.

I don't think there is an unbiased person in the world who would characterize America's reasons for being involved in WWII "religious".

Yes, H Truman was a religious person. Be that as it may, we were pulled into WWII by the attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

[mpw]

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[Isthmus]

What is currently considered the city of Hiroshima is 30 miles from where the "bomb" was dropped.

Not to be completely OT, but I'm pretty sure that's not entirely correct.

If you look at this image, you'll see a basic map showingthe bomb's impact on hiroshima. Take note of the tip of the island just to the left of ground zero:

Here is a map of the modern hiroshima. That island is the area markrked as peace memorial park, and ground zzero is the area marked as a-bom dome

Here is what that area looks like today. first the park:

and the dome:

Here is what the area and the dome looked like after the blast:

while reconstruction might have started outside of the city, the modern city very much occupies it's old location today.

As for the following references to christian churches:

...There are none on Nagasaki.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the idea of them building a mosque 30 miles from the Twin Towers.

Allow me to introduce Oura Tenshudo (aka Oura Catholic Church) in Nagasaki. Not only is it a christian church in Nagasaki, but rather it has been there since 1864; is the oldest standing christian church in Japan; and it is officially considered a national treasure/landmark.

Here is a map showing the distribution of the bomb impact on nagasaki.

And here is a map showing the location of the church, well within city limits, but on the outer edges of the impact zone (which is why it survived).

 

[byteware]

Sorry, but I never said that religious belief was the US's sole reason for entering the war; just that H Truman's actions in ordering the use of atomic WMD were, by his own admission guided by God.

Most Presidents have asked for every action to be "guided by God".

You are trying to make a connection that doesn't exist.

I disagree, but you're entitled to your point of view; how convenient that your mis(IMO)interpretation of this one point means you can end a discussion without having to address any of the other points I made

If you are going to try to make false connection because someone said "God guide me"...

What else can be said. You have already decided that it was wrong, and nothing more can be gained from trying to change a closed mind.

 

[Isthmus]

Most Presidents have asked for every action to be "guided by God".

Seriously man, that is a bit of an over reach. Every action? That's a bit of a broad claim to make without back up evidence. I'm not ganging up on you, but, could it possibly be that actions are guided by the advice of career professionals in the different fields presidents need to make decisions on?

I mean saying publicly that you trust gods advice makes for good marketing to the voters, but it is hardly a requirement of the job, and I would wager that it is not the normal measure most presidents use to make decisions. I would say that years of political experience probably have more to do with anything in the case of most holders of that office.

 

[byteware]

Seriously man, that is a bit of an over reach. Every action? That's a bit of a broad claim to make without back up evidence. I'm not ganging up on you, but, could it possibly be that actions are guided by the advice of career professionals in the different fields presidents need to make decisions on?

I think you are misunderstanding my statement, and the conversation in general.

We aren't in disagreement. The statement, in a speech, asking God to guide your actions... doesn't equate to the war being a religious war, or even partially a religious war.

Making that statement in a speech means that God guided your actions as much as God guided ALL of their actions. Politicians say such things.

I mean saying publicly that you trust gods advice makes for good marketing to the voters, but it is hardly a requirement of the job, and I would wager that it is not the normal measure most presidents use to make decisions. I would say that years of political experience probably have more to do with anything in the case of most holders of that office.

Again... we aren't disagreeing here.

 

[Isthmus]

I think you are misunderstanding my statement, and the conversation in general.

We aren't in disagreement. The statement, in a speech, asking God to guide your actions... doesn't equate to the war being a religious war, or even partially a religious war.

Making that statement in a speech means that God guided your actions as much as God guided ALL of their actions. Politicians say such things.

Again... we aren't disagreeing here.

Oh I see what you mean. You are right. We are definitely in agreement there.

 

[mpw]

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[byteware]

Not me byteware, you. You're taking one small part of my post, which I wasn't using to make the claims you're saying I was trying to make, I was just highlighting what the man himself said with specific regard to the atomic bombs which you chose to bring into the discussion because you were trying to make a comparison which supported you prejudice of the topic in hand.

Your statement, not mine...

Or.
Yes.
It makes H Truman's participation in the conflict in part based on religious beliefs/guidance.
Quite.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I think we can all agree that the attack be Al Queda terrosists on the Twin Towers, Pentagon and attempted destruction of Capitol Hill is very very different to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[mpw]

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[wiretap]

YouTube - 9/11 NIST releases footage-Firefighters Reveal Huge Explosions Before Towers Collapsed

 

[Bob Maxey]

There's a difference. This country was founded on Christianity - no matter what lie about freedom of religion that we are taught in school. If it was not founded on Christianity why do we swear on the Bible in courts? That's just one example of the tight integration.

Anyway, when is the last time Christians killed thousands of our own citizens in our own country?

Sure they may be extremist Muslims that had a part in 9/11, but what kind of scum is trying to put a mosque there just to start trouble and get publicity like this? Their intentions surely are not innocent. Even Obama, a Muslim himself, seems to realize this.

Absolutely correct. if anyone doubts who and how we came to be, i suggest reading a few books. No, it is not an android app called "book." Books are printed and bound volumes.

any time spent reading the history of this country and the beliefs of the founders will know that this country is a Christuian country.

Bob

 

[byteware]

Yes, and I stand by my statement in it's original context, and I've repeated that, and I've also made many other points; but you seem only to want to address this one issue (I wonder why?)

What's the point of addressing any issue, if you are so set in a erroneous mindset, and won't see past it.

The US was in WWII when Truman became Vice President.

Did he become Vice President for Religious reasons?

Roosevelt died, and Truman became President. Obviously not for Religious reasons.

Truman became President in the middle of a war...

Are you claiming that he didn't just surrender and withdraw from the war because of religious reasons?

This position is absolutely asinine.

To claim that anyone was in WWII for any other reason than Japan declared war on us... is absolutely asinine.

If you can't acknowledge that simple known fact, then there really is no point in discussing anything at all, is there?

 

[ElasticNinja]

To claim that anyone was in WWII for any other reason than Japan declared war on us... is absolutely asinine.

Whether Japan attacked or not, the US was only months away from war before Pearl Harbour
Pearl Harbour gave the US government the abiltity to convince people to contribute to the war effort

Of course, if the largest ships of the Pacific fleet hadn't been out in the ocean training, things would have been very different

If you can't acknowledge that simple known fact, then there really is no point in discussing anything at all, is there?

No and its also very off-topic

 

[mpw]

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[ElasticNinja]

MPW you are destoying your good name

 

[mpw]

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[_J.J._]

I'm sure this has been said, but I'm getting to this thread late

I say if it goes in, open up a Pork shop next door, or a Pawn shop called Iran outtamoney, a topless bar called Makkah me Hot, or a gay bar called the "turban cowboy"... See how 'tolerant' everyone is then

 

[Bob Maxey]

I think we can all agree that the attack be Al Queda terrosists on the Twin Towers, Pentagon and attempted destruction of Capitol Hill is very very different to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yes, perhaps they were. Seems to me, if the Al Queda terrorists had a bio or nuclear bomb, they would have used it.

Bob

 

[mpw]

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[copestag]

just some food for thought...... the case recently in front of the USSC.... whether to allow the anti-war protesters at the funerals of soldiers....

I would love to see a poll among those protesters who argue its their right to protest at a funeral.... just to see how many of them are against the mosque at ground zero...... Id be willing to bet its 100%

of course Id also be willing to bet that a number of people who say there shouldnt be a mosque at ground zero, also see no reason to ban protesters at funerals

 

[ElasticNinja]

I dont think anyone should ever have people protest at someones funeral, unless they are Mussolini or sth

There is a big diffrrence

 

[Familyguy1]

Most of the protestors are the WBC, plus we have the Patriot Guard to drown out their noise...soo...