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SOPA internet censorship bill

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by EarlyMon, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Suppose you can go to a movie for free or for pay.

    Unsure, you go in for free.

    Then, if you liked it, you'll want to go again and pay for the ticket this time.

    A movie ticket is insanely expensive any more.

    Can it be argued that by just opening two lines - one marked Tickets and the other marked Waltz Right In - that the extra exposure will sell more tickets?

    And under the present system, how easy is it to get your money back if you don't like it?

    Pretty hard.

    Since the dawn of time, the deal with entertainment - a luxury - is you pays your money and you takes your chances.

    Besides, with the cost of an online movie rental or an outright purchase being so much lower than a opening day ticket that gives you one seat for one time, tell me again how you're being ripped off and need the entitlement of watching first.

    The MPAA numbers on piracy loss are ridiculous. The economic model supporting piracy is equally ridiculous.

    Common sense wins every time.
     

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  2. BiggestManEver

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    Herp the derp, except that it doesn't. You clearly didn't read the article.

    Tons of artists give away their songs for free... in order to sell something else!

    And please, if you think musicians don't have other ways to make money than selling a bunch of 0's and 1's, you're deluding yourself. You ever heard a song in a movie or a commercial? You can bet your ass they get paid for those.

    Going to a movie in the theater is fine, because if you hate the movie, you can always get a refund. No theater would ever say no.

    It's buying the DVD or whatnot that you cannot return if opened. Hogwash.

    You guys didn't read my link if you think "The economic model supporting piracy is ridiculous..." because guess what? Songs are being given away for free and the artists are MAKING MONEY ELSEWHERE.
     
  3. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    What you want is really simple.

    You want to decide who gets the money, and how, upstream in the distribution chain.

    You are deciding how that works and ought work, according to you.

    You are deciding that based on your beliefs of how artists make money and how they ought make money, you are entitled to violate copyright law.

    Good luck with that, laws are escalating for that. If you don't learn what's wrong with that thinking here, perhaps one day you'll learn in court. Following a cogent dissertation of your arguments, you'll get to hear the word, guilty, the gavel bang and you'll get plenty of time to either pay fines or sit in a small room and then decide if there is a flaw in your logic.

    The law - it is what it is.

    PS - Read the article, thanks. Also - lots of theaters won't let you come back after a full viewing and get your money back because you sat through a movie you hated.

    Entertainment - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

    Same as it ever was.
     
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  4. godraw

    godraw Well-Known Member
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    On that one point you'd be correct.

    You're holding forth such an already established "brand' the likes of Trent Reznor and NiN falls seriously short in addressing the bands that are just starting out and opened the garage door for the first time.

    The one(s) you or I haven't heard yet. Before their 1's an 0's get pressed, agents arrange air play, prominent display space at retailers, managers that go forth and make arrangements/contracts for tours, venues, travel, food and lodging, roadies, lawyers for insurance contracts to cover for whatever should happen, etc etc. Ad infinitum.

    I'm sorry my friend. The label, their production crew, support staff and the remaining support staff behind the artist deserves payment in kind for their labors also. That certainly won't come from the band giving away the fruits of their labor, selling Ltd Ed's, hats and tees, windows decals, or even bottle openers.

    Nor I'd add will it come from the pirating of their music.
     
  5. Member243850

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    Chill buddy :)

    You are going right off topic.

    But just to answer your question about you trying to "justifiy" piracy...

    My old man owns a very very small software business and if some freak just came around and just damn well pirated my old man's software and started selling it for a tenth of the price because he / she didn't have to pay for the 1000's of programming hours that went into it... then we would be out on the street I am sorry to say.

    Trust me... I used to be a pirate just like you.

    I am really not proud of myself but I have changed and better late than never I guess. :)

    However my old man told me that we would be homeless if someone pirated our software and it is wrong it was and explained our family would be out on the streets if they pirated our software to hell and back.

    I don't like it because I walked a mile in some one else's shoes.

    I can see what my old means now.

    And in any event... if you hate these artists soooo freaking much... why do you pirate their music and / or software???

    If you hate what they are doing sooo much then why not just boy cott them and don't even listen to their songs and play their games?

    If you hate them so much why have anything to do with them???

    Why do you still download their music?

    Because you don't get nothing for nothing I am sorry to say.

    I hope I am not being rude here.
     
  6. Member243850

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    Whoa...

    Now this is something I don't believe at all.

    My family would be out on the STREETS if some shit head pirated our software and got a hold of it...

    How does that make any money AT ALL???

    Just makes us poorer... NO ONE would make any money if our software was pirated

    Only we would be homeless...

    If some jerk just came and priated our software we would be HOMELESS buddy homless.

    Our family would need to all look for jobs... my old man has spent a FORTUNE on this software. A LOT of money went into developing the software.

    This is just wrong.
     
  7. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    What do you suggest we do?

    I write a book, you post it on some web site, I discover it and I come after you. This is the best way to do it. If you steal from me, I have a right--an absolute right--to come after you.

    What do you suggest we do?

    What many people fail to grasp is the simple idea that violating copyright is a federal crime and I, the creator, have the absolute right to protect what is absolutely mine. This is not just a law like speeding laws or jay-walking, it is an absolute right guaranteed by Article I, Section 8, Clause 8.

    How do you suggest I "adjust my business model?" Theft is just that, theft.

    Should I be required to take extraordinary measures--with software, for example--to use these "business methods and mediums" you speak of--or can't I simply ask you to remove my property from your site and cease and desist, with stronger measures to follow if you blow me off? Of if you still blow me off, I ask your ISP/Web Host to deal with you. Guaranteed, when the DMCA Takedown Order arrives, you might not have a chance to remove my book.

    What's next, triple locks on my garage because thieves find a way to open all three locks and it is my fault for not using another lock? Then I add another and the same thing happens again.

    Or can't I simply take you to court and seek redress? If it means you pay me for the next twenty years, am I the bad guy or would it be easier for you to simply avoid violating federal laws and the constitution and behave yourself?

    I HATE SOPA! I see lots of damage. We are just beginning to realize what SOPA can mean in the real world. Yes, some innocents will be harmed. It is a flawed bill and it sucks. But dammit, something must be done and clearly, we do not seem to be able to understand what is fair and what is theft.

    SOPA ticks me off but so do infringers. Parse it any way you want, but my crap is my crap and only I have the right to say what is to be done with it. Anyone that disagrees with that is a fool. It does not matter one GD bit if my crappy little books sell or not. That is not part of the law. Nothing in the constitution says my book must be sold before I can protect it; even the crappy books no fool would ever purchase are protected by the Constitution / Federal Copyright Laws.

    I am sick and tired of people justifying their action by saying "what's the harm... most downloaders would never buy the book, so Bob, you did not lose a thing." GD it!

    But so very many people have gotten away with behaving badly for so many years, perhaps SOPA is a step in the right direction. We had a good run and apparently we do not seem to be able to follow the law and police ourselves. Perhaps these new laws are scary enough to help get a handle on illegal activity on the World Wide Web.

    We brought it on ourselves and now we must scramble to find a way to protect our freedoms and protect the content creators. For me, it is simple: I own the content and if you abuse it, I have the right to come after you. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and all that. Sadly, some relatively innocent people will pay for not knowing the difference between right and wrong. But so what? Violate my rights and we have a problem.

    I do not care one whit if you do not know the law. Before you post, before you create a web site, bloody well better know the law, because I no longer care about your ignorance and the aftermath when big brother comes after you. the fact people are clueless does not matter.

    So I have changed my mind. We do not police ourselves so yes, we need the government to start house cleaning. Perhaps we will change and then again, perhaps some will do time and pay huge fines.
     
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  8. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    That is the individual artist's business, not yours... it is never your business, period. Hell's bells, I can give away my book, but I still absolutely own the rights to it.

    I'll say it again: it does not matter what a particular artist does; it is his or her business, never your business.

    Apparently, you are not a creator.
     
  9. Bob Maxey

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  10. BubbaNexus

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  11. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    It didn't kill itself.

    Read the article.
     
  12. BubbaNexus

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    i know. some kind of crazy oppressive bill seems to pop up every now and then and it is always squashed. seems to be the nature of things.

    these politicians know they won't get re-elected by voting for something so ridiculous and unpopular.
     
  13. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    "Former senator Chris Dodd, who was the main face of SOPA is now looking for a compromise. Dodd said the proposed bills were largely “slam dunks”. He recognized ”this was a whole new different game all of a sudden,” once the protests against the bill grew to a deafening crescendo.

    The bill isn’t dead yet, but it has been stopped in its tracks and the potential for losing more jobs has been as well. Senator Dodd will probably be taking a different approach to getting a different version of the bill passed, but for now score one for the internet!"

    1- It will be back
    2- Those that protest it have good reason to do so and those that favor it also have good reasons: either to get re-elected or the bottom line. We are talking large corporations and politicians. Not much gets done if it damages your profits or your senator's chance at re-election.
    3- I am jaded and I have started wondering about motives. I do not think they care either way and in my view, what must survive is the profits.
     
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  14. Drhyde

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  15. 9to5cynic

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    Did you guys see that Smith has put up a new one, H.R. 1981 I believe. It is meant to 'protect children' from pornographers (and includes that in the title), but from what I read (only a couple of articles) it mandates that all ISPs track 18 months worth of all IP addresses and according to one article form data (read: credit card numbers).

    Not sure how accurate it is, but thought I'd share this for you guys...
    I know I don't like the idea of a company to be in control of any of my sensitive data (we all know how much companies value information security >.> *cough*sony*cough*)
     
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  16. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Oh dear God.

    Think of the children.

    Where have I heard that before?
     
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  17. Member243850

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    Phew!

    Sanity has won.

    I was very concerned actually.

    I really don't want to live in "Big Brother Land" and be part of the book from Goerge Orwell "1984"

    Not my cup of tea.

    Because that is bat poop crazy.

    This very important news.

    Not only would have the SOPA crap gone on in the USA but because the USA is so big with IT and all that jazz, the rest of the world would have followed the so called "Stop Online Piracy Act".

    The rest of the world would have just followed it.

    We would have followed this crazy lunatic act in a heart beat.

    I really hope this madness doesn't happen in the future.

    I hope so at least.

    Thank you for sharing the awesome news!
     
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  18. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Yep. We sneeze, you catch a cold.

    Now for PIPA.
     
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  19. SamuraiBigEd

    SamuraiBigEd Under paid Sasquatch!
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    Just because a few people have made this work does not mean all will be able to and the biggest flaw in your logic is that the guy who gets his group of friends together almost always says "Don't buy the books, I'll show you where to get them for free".

    The other problem here is this model is totally unworkable for artists, photographers and more likely than not authors and software developers. All of these creators have a more limited exposure than musicians so the more piracy the more they are harmed.

    As Early pointed out just because you think this is how it should work does not give you immunity to the laws. Creative Commons was created for people who want to openly share their work but unless they place it there you do not have the right to "copy" without permission.
     
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  20. Bob Maxey

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    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

    Please no PIPA, my brain hurts and I am already scared. Lets take a week off and discuss cute kitty videos on YouTube.
     
  21. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Originally Posted by BiggestManEver
    I don't know what to tell you. This just isn't true. Those that pirate would NEVER have spent the money in the first place. It's not a lost sale. It's gained free advertisement.

    Anecdotal evidence 1: Let's say I'm a Tabletop Roleplaying gamer. I heard of this game called Pathfinder. I illegally download the books, to see how the game is. After that, I like the game so much, that I get a group together and we start playing. They all like it so much that each of them buys several of the hardcover books, and one of them even signs up for the Pathfinder monthly subscription service ($20 bucks a month). So, my illegal "piracy" just created revenue for that company; revenue they never would have gotten.

    Anecdotal evidence 2: Let's say I illegally download a movie. Say, Inception. I have to illegally download movies, because if I buy it and I don't like it, I'm not allowed to get my money back for some stupid reason. So, I download it. I liked it! But, I still don't have money. So, I put it on my Amazon wishlist (the Blu Ray, the one with all the bells and whistles that costs the most). Then, someone buys it for me! How nice! My illegal download just created revenue for the company.

    PIRACY CREATES MONEY
    ========================================================
    My reply:

    #1 - You broke the law.
    #2 - You broke the law
     
  22. SamuraiBigEd

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    I might actually take PIPA over "cute kitty" videos!:p
     
  23. argedion

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    The Infernal Swamp
    Wow people actually believe this

    So your saying that If I go into a grocery store and steal a steak and eat with a friend who takes other friends to the store and buys the steak that I have just made the store money so they should not prosecute me for stealing the steaks. This would be very interesting.

    Wonder if I kill someone but prove they deserved to die if I can get amnesty. After all I was doing the world a favor right?
     
  24. argedion

    argedion The TechnoFrog
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    The Infernal Swamp
    That would depend on what "cute kitty" looks like ;)
     
  25. Bob Maxey

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    Just search YT and there are many. I am addicted. I do not like the talking horse videos, just CK's.
     
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